COVID-19: Masks and ventilation more effective than social distancing

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by dmspilot, Apr 5, 2021.

  1. Pilots Of America Management

    Pilots Of America Management MC Announcements and Communication Management Council Member

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    Pilots of America Management
    Folks, just a reminder that we need to be sure and keep the discussion out of the Spin Zone. A few posts that contained political content have already been deleted, but the Management Council has decided to keep the thread open, as long as we can keep the discourse civil.
     
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  2. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    They used the data for the "leaky" variant of surgical masks. Do you think using the filtration rate of non-leaky masks would weaken their conclusion? :confused: Again, I don't see how your criticism even makes sense when the study authors chose a more pessimistic filtration rate.
     
  3. PeterNSteinmetz

    PeterNSteinmetz Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    In brief answer to your question, no. Let's think about the effects of that, interesting point. I would assume that more leaky masks would cause the effects of ventilation to strengthen, in other words, more virions in the environment imply that ventilation is a more important thing. So using less leaky masks as an assumption would decrease the apparent effectiveness of ventilation. So in that sense, I guess I would agree with you that using less leaky masks strengthens their conclusion relative to the combination being more effective than distancing. But I still think 44% is an optimistic estimate, in the sense of more effective than masks are likely to be. I do see how you meant 'pessimistic' in a different sense than I was using its normal antonym; I didn't catch that earlier so sorry for any confusion.

    But my primary criticism is that the authors did not study parameter variation of this likely important parameter at all. They just presented results for one value. This is the great strength of computer models, one can run them ad infinitum with variations. In modeling papers one normally has graphs of the effects as a function of the different parameters and maybe even statistical testing against assumed prior distributions of these parameters based on other data. If they had done so, we would understand directly the effects of leakiness on the strength of their conclusions. It is possible it is the other way around, but I don't think so.

    This could be a much stronger and rather interesting study. It addresses an interesting question of the interplay of masking, distancing, and ventilation. Thanks for pointing it out in any case.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  4. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    This. Hell it was the protocol around here for months when testing was unavailable. Sick, just stay home. Lots of “essential” neighbors are convinced they had it and many describe symptoms bad enough along with “wouldn’t want to do that again!” they’re probably right... but none have bothered to be tested for antibodies or anything later. It’s a don’t care to them now.

    Things are open enough now most places they either caught it or they didn’t and they’re going to work anyway and have throughout.

    If they’re symptomatic they stay home mow. That’s a long term plus for society and probably causes much bigger rewards than masks or anything else.

    People learning to wash their hands regularly also makes a huge difference. I don’t think people who don’t do work that takes them into peoples homes really understands how nasty a large percentage of our population is inside their houses. Naaaaasty.

    Ask the resident home healthcare nurse who got out of that silliness after almost 20 years of it. People are gross. LOL

    The hoarders tv show was tame.
     
  5. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    And N95s/surgical masks/bandanas don't harm the economy!
     
  6. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    By the way. I asked the Mayo pulmonary desk folks out of curiosity how many visiting have had a positive Covid test come back and have to do whatever they do when that happens.

    What they have to do to keep from infecting the whole freaking Gonda and Mayo buildings (a crap ton of people) is fascinating unto itself but for another time.

    They’ve had two. Thousands and thousands of pulmonary patients from all over the country.

    They also mentioned there hadn’t been a Mayo staff member infected on site this entire time. The handful of positive staff knew where they got exposed away from work. That’s impressive.

    Kinda says some medical facilities were / are(?) doing things VERY wrong if Mayo had managed those numbers. Like incredibly wrong.

    (For the record Karen’s hospital network has had a few more than Mayo but still impressively low numbers.)

    Should also mention no particular specialty PPE seen here in normal non-Covid areas either. The Covid testers have a bit more on than the average staff. Hair coverings of various sorts mainly. No smocks, very few full face shields, Docs below a certain age are still handshaking even if asked if it’s ok, etc.

    The usual distancing markers are in place, and the auto check in kiosks are gone away into storage somewhere. Pulmonary wipes down patient clipboards and pens. And pulmonary can’t run tests that require heavy breathing until said Covid test that only two patients have failed, is done.

    Kinda interesting numbers to me anyway. I would have assumed at least a patient per month failing in pulmonary. At least. More like two or three.

    But only two in a year. People really do seem to just stay home. Which is good.
     
  7. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Unless you wear a mask 24/7.....they are not effective.

    Ask me how I know. We were very diligent in masking up....until one of my kids brings the Rona home. Most of us are not wearing masks at home......and there's the weakness or the chink in the armor. ;)
     
  8. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    The Spin Zone is back??? Where?
     
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  9. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Line Up and Wait

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    They are if your kids wear masks outside the house, my 4 year old does just fine. There is a flaw in your argument. Can’t blame the masks.
     
  10. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Same with my parents. Masked up everywhere outside the house, they still ended up with it. Meanwhile, I didn't, and interacted with way more people and never got it. But masks supposedly work, except when they don't. And not wearing a mask is a guarantee you will get it, except when it's not.

    And no I didn't asymptomatically transmit to parents because I (nor anyone else I came in contact with) hadn't seen them for 3 weeks prior their onset of symptoms.
     
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  11. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    and....in the end, for us, it was much to do about nothing. o_O