course reversal, to hold or not to hold, GPS 21 MNM

twdeckard

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twdeckard
I have one of those course reversal questions.

GPS RWY 21 MNM

In this approach I am oblidged to the hold regardless of how I come at RUSHE correct? There isn't any NoPT sector depicted?

Is there specific langage from the controller (cleared for the straight in, vectors for the approach) that is the confirmation I can just barrel down the final? This is probably core knowledge I should have locked in, be gentle. If I am being vectored is that sufficient? I was north of the field and would have had the final approach course boresighted.

I am pretty sure I am correct but the 430W and I were having an argument about it last weekend. My only goal was to get below the cloud deck, miss, and head to a nearby airport without hitting lake Michigan.

In the end, a hole opened up and I didn't need the approach.

Interestingly this approach was retired in the upcoming cycle? Perhaps I am not the only one that was confused?
 

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Here's the text from the Instrument Procedures Handbook:
IPH 5-39 said:
A procedure turn is the maneuver prescribed to perform
a course reversal to establish the aircraft
inbound on an intermediate or final approach course.
The procedure turn or hold- in lieu- of- procedure
turn (PT) is a required maneuver when it is depicted
on the approach chart. However, the procedure turn
or the hold-in-lieu-of-PT is not permitted when the
symbol "No PT" is depicted on the initial segment
being flown, when a RADAR VECTOR to the final
approach course is provided, or when conducting a
timed approach from a holding fix. The altitude prescribed
for the procedure turn is a minimum altitude
until the aircraft is established on the inbound
course. The maneuver must be completed within the
distance specified in the profile view. The pilot may
elect to use the procedure turn or hold-in-lieu-of-PT
when it is not required by the procedure, but must
first receive an amended clearance from ATC. When
ATC is Radar vectoring to the final approach course,
or to the Intermediate Fix as may occur with RNAV
standard instrument approach procedures, ATC may
specify in the approach clearance “CLEARED
STRAIGHT-IN (type) APPROACH” to ensure that
the pilot understands that the procedure turn or holdin-
lieu-of-PT is not to be flown. If the pilot is uncertain
whether ATC intends for a procedure turn or a
straight-in approach to be flown, the pilot shall
immediately request clarification from ATC (14 CFR
Part 91.123).
Certainly vectors remove the need for the HILPT. What's not clear to me is if your clearance gets you to RUSHE aligned pretty well with the inbound course do you need to go around the track once? It sounds like it as there doesn't seem to be an exception based on arrival direction but it doesn't make much sense. Of course we can ask for whatever way we want.

Joe
 
Here's the text from the Instrument Procedures Handbook:

Certainly vectors remove the need for the HILPT. What's not clear to me is if your clearance gets you to RUSHE aligned pretty well with the inbound course do you need to go around the track once? It sounds like it as there doesn't seem to be an exception based on arrival direction but it doesn't make much sense. Of course we can ask for whatever way we want.

Joe


As stated in the IPH you quoted, my understanding has always been that if you're on vectors to the approach, you are NOT to fly the HILPT unless you first get permission from the controller. He's not expecting you to fly it, you could mess up his sequencing/spacing if you DO fly it, and you could end up with a "telephone number" to call if you fly that PT/HILPT without prior permission.
 
Vectors - no hold. Self navigating to RUSHE, I'd execute a hold no matter where I was coming from. This is an old rho/theta approach originally designed before GPS to be flown by devices like the KNS80.
 
In this approach I am oblidged to the hold regardless of how I come at RUSHE correct? There isn't any NoPT sector depicted?
Correct on both counts. The only exceptions to flying the HPILPT (i.e., crossing RUSHE twice after being cleared for the approach) would be:
  • You are already holding at RUSHE at 2200.
  • You are receiving vectors to final.
  • You are "cleared straight in" after being cleared direct to RUSHE (which is the IF as well as the IAF) with an arrival angle less than 90 degrees to the final approach course.
Is there specific langage from the controller (cleared for the straight in, vectors for the approach) that is the confirmation I can just barrel down the final?
Either "vectors to final" or "cleared straight in" in conjunction with a clearance direct to RUSHE.
This is probably core knowledge I should have locked in, be gentle. If I am being vectored is that sufficient?
Merely being vectored isn't enough -- it must be "vectors to final."
I was north of the field and would have had the final approach course boresighted.
That would be up to the controller -- there might be timing/separation issues with an airplane ahead of you which would necessitate flying the holding pattern.

See AIM Section 5-4-9 for the details on HPILPT's, and the NOTE to paragraph a. for information about being cleared straight in.
 
Correct on both counts. The only exceptions to flying the HPILPT (i.e., crossing RUSHE twice after being cleared for the approach) would be:
  • You are already holding at RUSHE at 2200.
  • You are receiving vectors to final.
  • You are "cleared straight in" after being cleared direct to RUSHE (which is the IF as well as the IAF) with an arrival angle less than 90 degrees to the final approach course.
Either "vectors to final" or "cleared straight in" in conjunction with a clearance direct to RUSHE.
Merely being vectored isn't enough -- it must be "vectors to final."
That would be up to the controller -- there might be timing/separation issues with an airplane ahead of you which would necessitate flying the holding pattern.

See AIM Section 5-4-9 for the details on HPILPT's, and the NOTE to paragraph a. for information about being cleared straight in.

Having said that, there are a LOT of controllers that miss the nuances and have different expectations. It never hurts to ask. (I had a discussion with one after he cleared me direct to the IAF/IF which was also a HPILPT waypoint - just like this apporach - no NoPT on the chart, yet the expectation on the part of the controller was that I fly without doing the pattern. The clearance was "Direct XXXXX, cleared for the ILS-X approach." - Not a "straight in" clearance, and not a "Vectors to final" clearance. He thought that the "Direct XXX" instruction constituted a VTF.)
 
Having said that, there are a LOT of controllers that miss the nuances and have different expectations. It never hurts to ask. (I had a discussion with one after he cleared me direct to the IAF/IF which was also a HPILPT waypoint - just like this apporach - no NoPT on the chart, yet the expectation on the part of the controller was that I fly without doing the pattern. The clearance was "Direct XXXXX, cleared for the ILS-X approach." - Not a "straight in" clearance, and not a "Vectors to final" clearance. He thought that the "Direct XXX" instruction constituted a VTF.)
Point well taken. Controllers often (and, I might say, inappropriately and in violation of FAA Order 7110.65) make assumptions about what pilots will do or what equipment they have. Any time there's a question, even just the hint of a question, in a pilot's mind about what the controller wants them to do (or whether they can do it), 91.123(a) requires that pilot to obtain clarification immediately, and only an unwise pilot will be afraid to do that.
 
I have one of those course reversal questions.

GPS RWY 21 MNM

In this approach I am oblidged to the hold regardless of how I come at RUSHE correct? There isn't any NoPT sector depicted?

Is there specific langage from the controller (cleared for the straight in, vectors for the approach) that is the confirmation I can just barrel down the final? This is probably core knowledge I should have locked in, be gentle. If I am being vectored is that sufficient? I was north of the field and would have had the final approach course boresighted.

"Cleared direct RUSHE, maintain at or above two thousand five hundred until RUSHE, cleared straight-in GPS runway two one approach.”

You can't be vectored for this one because it's outside GRB radar coverage.
 
Vectors - no hold. Self navigating to RUSHE, I'd execute a hold no matter where I was coming from. This is an old rho/theta approach originally designed before GPS to be flown by devices like the KNS80.

You're self navigating to RUSHE from ESC VOR. Your clearance:

"Cleared direct RUSHE, maintain at or above two thousand five hundred until RUSHE, cleared straight-in GPS runway two one approach.”

Are you going to execute a hold?
 
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You can't be vectored for this one because it's outside GRB radar coverage.

What about ZMP? They vectored me into SAW before I even got to ESC, and took me down to 4000.
 
You're self navigating to RUSHE from ESC VOR. Your clearance:

"Cleared direct RUSHE, maintain at or above two thousand five hundred until RUSHE, cleared straight-in GPS runway two one approach.”

Are you going to execute a hold?

No, per the Instrument Procedure Handbook:

ATC may specify in the approach clearance “CLEARED
STRAIGHT-IN
(type) APPROACH” to ensure that
the pilot understands that the procedure turn or holdin-
lieu-of-PT is not to be flown.
 
You're self navigating to RUSHE from ESC VOR. Your clearance:

"Cleared direct RUSHE, maintain at or above two thousand five hundred until RUSHE, cleared straight-in GPS runway two one approach.”

Are you going to execute a hold?
No, because you explicitly gave me a straight-in. If you'd said "Cleared direct RUSHE, maintain at or above two thousand five hundred until RUSHE, cleared GPS runway two one approach" then I'd circle. In fact I'd read back the clearance and add "and just to be clear, I'll be performing the hold as depicted".
 
Tim's got it right. In that situation, unless the controller says, "Cleared straight in," you must execute the HPILPT. Unfortunately, I've had controllers omit those magic words when it's pretty obvious they should be saying them, and in that case, I always let 91.123(a) be my guide and obtain clarification before reaching the fix.
 
Tim's got it right. In that situation, unless the controller says, "Cleared straight in," you must execute the HPILPT.

The only mention of "procedure turn" in Part 91 is to state when it cannot be performed.
 
The only mention of "procedure turn" in Part 91 is to state when it cannot be performed.
Part 97 makes the SIAP's regulatory, and failure to comply with them is a violation of 91.175(a). The IPH, AIM, and the part of Part 91 you mention give us authorization to deviate from the SIAP's under certain circumstances, including being "cleared straight in" by the controller (the controller being authorized to issue that clearance in certain situations by FAA Order 7110.65). Absent those circumstances, execution of a PT or HPILPT in a SIAP is required by regulation.
 
Part 97 makes the SIAP's regulatory, and failure to comply with them is a violation of 91.175(a). The IPH, AIM, and the part of Part 91 you mention give us authorization to deviate from the SIAP's under certain circumstances, including being "cleared straight in" by the controller (the controller being authorized to issue that clearance in certain situations by FAA Order 7110.65). Absent those circumstances, execution of a PT or HPILPT in a SIAP is required by regulation.
I think Steven's a "literalist" - reads the reg, comes to his own conclusion of what it means, and isn't particularly interested in accessing other sources, even long-standing one such as this one from 1977

==============================

July 25, 1977

Robert E. Little, Jr., Esquire

Dear Mr. Little:

We have reviewed your letter dated April 28, 1977, in which you requested an interpretation concerning whether, when depicted on an approach chart, a procedure turn is required under all circumstances in executing an IFR approach or it is permissive and subject to the pilot's judgment as to the need for the maneuver. Our conclusion is essentially as discussed with you on the phone on May 17, 1977.

In your letter, you indicated that during the first leg of an IFR training flight from Tipton Army Air Field, Fort Meade, Maryland to Westminster Airport (EMI), you were radar vectored to Federal Airway V-265 and thereafter maintained an altitude of 3,000 feet. Approximately 4 miles south of Westminster VORTAC you obtained the following Air Traffic Control (ATC) clearance:

"Army 295, radar service terminated 4 miles south of Westminster VOR, cleared for the VOR approach at Westminster, maintain 3000 feet until crossing the VOR."

You indicated that "for training purposes" you executed a procedure turn during the approach but concluded, after discussion with your instructor pilot, that the procedure turn was not required under the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs). You stated that you considered the following factors:

"(1) Our course was 11 to the right of the final approach course depicted on the plan view of the Westminster VOR Runway 36 approach;

(2) We were only 500 feet above the minimum procedure turn altitude; and

(3) We had approximately 4 minutes and 30 seconds to lose approximately 1500 feet at a rate of approximately 330 feet per minute after crossing the EMI VOR."

According to your letter, your subsequent research into the matter and inquiries of various FAA personnel into the correctness of your conclusion did not provide a satisfactory answer.

As you discovered, "procedure turn," as a symbol or term used in Part 97 of the FARs, is defined in Section 97.3(p) as follows:

"(p) Procedure Turn means the maneuver prescribed when it is necessary to reverse direction to establish the aircraft on an intermediate or final approach course. The outbound course, direction of turn, distance within which the turn must be completed, and minimum altitude are specified in the procedures. However, the point at which the turn may be commenced, and the type and rate of turn is left to the discretion of the pilot." [Emphasis added]

Pertinent paragraphs of Section 91.116 "Takeoff and landing under IFR; General" provide as follows:

(a) Instrument approaches to civil airports. Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator (including ATC), each person operating an aircraft shall, when an instrument letdown to an airport is necessary, use a standard instrument approach procedure prescribed for that airport in Part 97 of this chapter.

(h) Limitations on procedure turns. In the case of a radar initial approach to a final approach fix or position, or a timed approach from a holding fix, or where the procedure specifies "NOPT" or "FINAL", no pilot may make a procedure turn unless, when he receives his final approach clearance, he so advises ATC.

Paragraph (a) of Section 91.75 "Compliance with ATC clearances and instructions" states in pertinent part as follows:

(a) When an ATC clearance has been obtained, no pilot in command may deviate from that clearance, except in an emergency, unless he obtains an amended clearance. ... If a pilot is uncertain of the meaning of an ATC clearance, he shall immediately request clarification from ATC."

Accordingly, under Section 91.116, Part 97 Standard Instrument Approach Procedures (SIAPs) are regulatory and, unless otherwise authorized (such as by an ATC clearance to the contrary), a pilot is required to execute an IFR approach in accordance with the SIAP prescribed in Part 97. As you know, the substance of SIAPs is reflected on "approach plates" or other flight information available for use in the cockpit.

Particular SIAPs may prescribe a procedure turn that is mandatory, permissive, or prohibited depending on the application of criteria contained in the U.S. Standards for Terminal Instrument Approach Procedures (TERPs). The TERPs are used by the FAA in developing SIAPs for particular regulatory approaches at particular airports. However, ATC may "authorize" a deviation from the prescribed procedure when it determines that a different approach procedure is appropriate. Accordingly, a pilot may request ATC for authorization to deviate from a prescribed procedure turn, if it is prescribed as mandatory or, if it is prescribed as permissive, he may request an approach clearance with or without the described procedure turn.

Thus, if you accepted the indicated ATC clearance, under the FARs, you were requested to maintain an altitude of 3000 feet on the inbound course until crossing the VOR and then to execute the prescribed (SIAP) VOR approach at Westminster. Since the (SIAP) VOR approach prescribes a mandatory procedure turn as part of that procedure, the procedure turn (as described) is required.

Further, please note that if a pilot is uncertain whether the IFR approach procedure for which he obtained ATC clearance requires or only permits a procedure turn, he is required under Section 91.75(a) to immediately request clarification from ATC.

You correctly noted that the discussion of procedure turns in Advisory Circular 90-1A is neither regulatory nor interpretive of the regulation. Advisory circulars, as their title suggests, are intended to provide information, suggestions and other guidance.

If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,
NEIL R. EISNER
NEIL R. EISNER
Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations & Enforcement Division
==============================

It's actually pretty funny. With all of the arguments on the issue through the years and those multiple attempts to clarify the AIM explanation a couple of years ago, the real rule today is exactly what the Chief Counsel's office said more than 30 years ago in one of the more realistic and practical interpretations:


  • If the PT is depicted and one of the "do not fly it" exceptions does not apply, it must be flown.
  • If the PT is depicted and one of the "do not fly it" exceptions apply, it may not be flown.
  • ATC can modify 1 and 2 to a limited degree. You can ask ATC to fly the PT when you are not supposed to and ATC can clear you straight in avoiding the requirement for a PT that you don't really need.
  • When in doubt, ask.
 
ATC can modify 1 and 2 to a limited degree. You can ask ATC to fly the PT when you are not supposed to and ATC can clear you straight in avoiding the requirement for a PT that you don't really need.
While pilots aren't required to know this, ATC is limited by FAA Order 7110.65 in the circumstances under which they can clear you "straight in." They can't do it just because you ask for it and there is no conflicting traffic. The operation must be within specific parameters given in that Order. Generally speaking, this is permitted only for RNAV(GPS) approaches when the aircraft is cleared direct to the IF at the depicted IF arrival altitude and the inbound course to the IF is within 90 degrees of the IF-FAF course. Controllers often clear you straight in under some other circumstances (e.g., arriving at ETX from the west at 3000 on the KXLL VOR-B approach other than on the NoPT route from PINNA), but they do so "outside the lines" of 7110.65.
 
While pilots aren't required to know this, ATC is limited by FAA Order 7110.65 in the circumstances under which they can clear you "straight in." They can't do it just because you ask for it and there is no conflicting traffic. The operation must be within specific parameters given in that Order. Generally speaking, this is permitted only for RNAV(GPS) approaches when the aircraft is cleared direct to the IF at the depicted IF arrival altitude and the inbound course to the IF is within 90 degrees of the IF-FAF course. Controllers often clear you straight in under some other circumstances (e.g., arriving at ETX from the west at 3000 on the KXLL VOR-B approach other than on the NoPT route from PINNA), but they do so "outside the lines" of 7110.65.

Very interesting...on occasion I have requested an "abbreviation" to a GPS IAP in the interest of spending less time on the approach especially if there were weather concerns...I just figured they were being nice and turning a blind eye.
 
Controllers often clear you straight in under some other circumstances (e.g., arriving at ETX from the west at 3000 on the KXLL VOR-B approach other than on the NoPT route from PINNA), but they do so "outside the lines" of 7110.65.
This wouldn't be the only thing that's periodically done outside the book by ATC. And I'm not saying whether that's a good thing or a bad.

Actually, I've never been quite sure (and have had no good reason to find out) whether 7110.65 is limiting in the sense that ATC is not permitted to do anything that is not "by the book."
 
Actually, I've never been quite sure (and have had no good reason to find out) whether 7110.65 is limiting in the sense that ATC is not permitted to do anything that is not "by the book."
Under the Federal Tort Claims Act, the government eats the liability sandwich if a controller deviates from the handbook and something bad happens. Staying within the book makes it a discretionary function for which you can't sue the government. Also, I think controllers can be fired for deviating from that book.
 
Part 97 makes the SIAP's regulatory, and failure to comply with them is a violation of 91.175(a). The IPH, AIM, and the part of Part 91 you mention give us authorization to deviate from the SIAP's under certain circumstances, including being "cleared straight in" by the controller (the controller being authorized to issue that clearance in certain situations by FAA Order 7110.65). Absent those circumstances, execution of a PT or HPILPT in a SIAP is required by regulation.

That's not correct. Here is what Part 97 has to say about procedure turns:


Hold in lieu of PT means a holding pattern established under applicable FAA criteria, and used in lieu of a procedure turn to execute a course reversal.

NOPT means no procedure turn required. Altitude prescribed applies only if procedure turn is not executed.

Procedure turn means the maneuver prescribed when it is necessary to reverse direction to establish the aircraft on an intermediate or final approach course. The outbound course, direction of turn, distance within which the turn must be completed, and minimum altitude are specified in the procedure. However, the point at which the turn may be begun, and the type and rate of turn, is left to the discretion of the pilot.




That's it. Not a word about a procedure turn being required when it is not necessary to reverse direction to establish the aircraft on an intermediate or final approach course.


Let's go back to the VOR/DME RNAV or GPS RWY 21 approach at KMNM. The pilot is navigating to RUSHE from ESC VOR. Whether the clearance is "Cleared direct RUSHE, maintain at or above two thousand five hundred until RUSHE, cleared straight-in GPS runway two one approach” or "Cleared direct RUSHE, maintain at or above two thousand five hundred until RUSHE, cleared GPS runway two one approach", a procedure turn is not required by regulation.
 
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An opinion that is not supported by the FARs or by simple logic.
I'm not so sure about either statement.

"Supported by the FARs." Application of regulations involves their interpretation. A government agency's interpretation of its own regulations is always given deference and in the case of the FARs, the FARs mean pretty much what the FAA Legal department's Regulations Division says they mean. Hard to say "not supported" in that context, whether one agrees with the interpretation or not.

Logic? Well, PTs are established by approach designers with TERPS criteria and traffic flow in mind. A rule that says that pilots who are not looking at and probably don't understand those considerations can, just for the heck of it, do something different, doesn't strain my concept of logic as much as it seems to stretch yours.
 
That's it. Not a word about a procedure turn being required when it is not necessary to reverse direction to establish the aircraft on an intermediate or final approach course.
Your interpretation, not the FAA's. The FAA interorets those regs to say you must fly the full procedure unless otherwise specifically authorized, and that includes any depicted PT/HPILPT, and there's an FAA Chief Counsel interpretation on point. But even if there weren't, you as a controller should realize better than anyone that we cannot have the anarchy of pilots being allowed to decide on their own whether or not to fly a depicted PT/HPILPT because of the separation problems that would cause for ATC -- reductio ad absurdum, as they say in logic class.
 
While pilots aren't required to know this, ATC is limited by FAA Order 7110.65 in the circumstances under which they can clear you "straight in." They can't do it just because you ask for it and there is no conflicting traffic. The operation must be within specific parameters given in that Order. Generally speaking, this is permitted only for RNAV(GPS) approaches when the aircraft is cleared direct to the IF at the depicted IF arrival altitude and the inbound course to the IF is within 90 degrees of the IF-FAF course.

JO 7110.65S says "GPS or RNAV approach", that would include any IAP which relies on area navigation equipment for navigational guidance.
 
I'm not so sure about either statement.

"Supported by the FARs." Application of regulations involves their interpretation. A government agency's interpretation of its own regulations is always given deference and in the case of the FARs, the FARs mean pretty much what the FAA Legal department's Regulations Division says they mean. Hard to say "not supported" in that context, whether one agrees with the interpretation or not.

There is nothing in Part 91 or 97 that says a procedure turn is required when it is not necessary to reverse direction to establish the aircraft on an intermediate or final approach course.

Logic? Well, PTs are established by approach designers with TERPS criteria and traffic flow in mind.

I've examined many IAPs, it appears to me that approach designers care nothing about traffic flow.

A rule that says that pilots who are not looking at and probably don't understand those considerations can, just for the heck of it, do something different, doesn't strain my concept of logic as much as it seems to stretch yours.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.
 
Your interpretation, not the FAA's.

It's not an interpretation at all. It's a fact that there is not a word in Part 97 about a procedure turn being required when it is not necessary to reverse direction to establish the aircraft on an intermediate or final approach course.

The FAA interorets those regs to say you must fly the full procedure unless otherwise specifically authorized, and that includes any depicted PT/HPILPT, and there's an FAA Chief Counsel interpretation on point.

That may be, but the fact remains there is nothing in Part 97 that supports that interpretation.

But even if there weren't, you as a controller should realize better than anyone that we cannot have the anarchy of pilots being allowed to decide on their own whether or not to fly a depicted PT/HPILPT because of the separation problems that would cause for ATC -- reductio ad absurdum, as they say in logic class.

Let's say our intrepid pilot was heading for KMNM yesterday, navigating to RUSHE from ESC VOR. The clearance was, "Cleared direct RUSHE, maintain at or above two thousand five hundred until RUSHE, cleared GPS runway two one approach." What separation problems do you believe would have been created for ATC if the pilot had elected not to fly the course reversal?
 
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You are entitled to your opinion on that point, but the Chief Counsel's interpretation has force of law, and that's the way it is.

1.) I didn't present an opinion.

2.) The Chief Counsel's interpretation is an opinion.
 
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2.) The Chief Counsel's interpretation is an opinion.
The U.S. Court of Appeals says otherwise. Under the law (49 USC 44709, to be exact), we are "bound by all validly adopted interpretations of laws and regulations the Administrator carries out ... unless the ... interpretation is arbitrary, capricious, or otherwise not according to law." See Adminitrator v. Merrell, 190 F. 3rd 571, 577 (D.C. Cir, 1999).
 
The U.S. Court of Appeals says otherwise. Under the law (49 USC 44709, to be exact), we are "bound by all validly adopted interpretations of laws and regulations the Administrator carries out ... unless the ... interpretation is arbitrary, capricious, or otherwise not according to law." See Adminitrator v. Merrell, 190 F. 3rd 571, 577 (D.C. Cir, 1999).

Well, there ya go.

I see you ignored the separation problem. Any particular reason?
 
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