Controlled Airport Questions

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172SP

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172SP
Hi All-

I have been working towards my PPL for some time now, and I'm just finishing some things up, including the required landings at a controlled airport. My Instructor's plan for me is to do a final solo XC, and on the way back to the home airport do 3 touch and go's at a class d airport. I fly out of an uncontrolled airport, and although I have gone into a class c airport solo, I'm more nervous about this flight due to the touch and go's; here are my questions in regards to the operations at controlled airports.

1) I'm going into a D airport that has approach control as well as tower. Who do I contact, and I guess what would I say to request touch and go's?

2) Will I have to ask for the "option"?

3) If they clear me for the "option", what do I do on the last one to let them know where I'm going?

4) General controlled airport question - if i'm told to enter the pattern say on right base runway 5, does that clear me to turn final before I'm cleared to land? What about if I'm told to enter right downwind, can I turn base and final? The next part of this question is after a touch and go, can I do the pattern normally without being told to turn crosswind, downwind, etc.? Which way would I go in this case?

Wow that was a lot :goofy: hopefully you guys can help with all of my questions :confused: thanks
 
For starters, you should be discussing all these questions with your CFI.
Next - never be afraid of including in your calls with the magic phrase "student pilot", as in

"Airportname, skyhawk 12345, student pilot, 5 miles west with information whatever, request three touch & goes"

They'll be happy to help. Depending on the airport, they'll probably expect you to do a regular pattern and the only conversation will be to clear you for landing/T&G. If there's traffic they might ask you to extend downwind and then will call your base leg.

Go talk to the CFI. He'll know the local procedures at the airports you'll be visiting.
 
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1) Did your instructor teach you how to get flight following? If there is an approach control, call them first. Let them know which letter atis you have, where you are, and that you wish to do multiple TnG landings.
2) just tell them what you want to do. If you want stop and go, ask for that. If you want touch and go, ask for that. Instructors will often request the option so they can surprise the student with a go around. The controller may offer you the option, which means you can do a low approach, touch and go, stop and go, or full stop.
3) when cleared for the last landing, let the controller know after this you are heading north, south, to xyz, whatever.
4) unless told otherwise, you must turn final, but cannot land until you receive a landing clearance.
 
1) Check the AFD, but I would think you'll contact approach and they'll hand you off to the tower. No need to tell approach that you are doing T&G.
Tell tower you are inbound for pattern work.

2) If they tell you cleared to land, you'll have to request the option. If you told them you are going to do pattern work, they will probably clear you for the option. If they forget, ask for it.

3) When you call reporting (they'll tell you where to report, usually mid field downwind), report and tell them you'll be departing to the XX on the go.

4) I think you can turn final, but usually they'll tell you to report X miles right base for 5. When you report they'll clear you to land, or give you some other instruction, so you shouldn't run into needing to turn final before you talk to them again.

Yes, after the T&G you do the pattern normally, reporting at the point they tell you (mid field downwind). Usually when they clear you for the option they'll tell you to make left/right traffic.
The times they didn't tell me I asked them ("please say direction of traffic").

Good luck and have fun!
 
172SP said:
Hi All-

I have been working towards my PPL for some time now, and I'm just finishing some things up, including the required landings at a controlled airport. My Instructor's plan for me is to do a final solo XC, and on the way back to the home airport do 3 touch and go's at a class d airport. I fly out of an uncontrolled airport, and although I have gone into a class c airport solo, I'm more nervous about this flight due to the touch and go's; here are my questions in regards to the operations at controlled airports.

1) I'm going into a D airport that has approach control as well as tower. Who do I contact, and I guess what would I say to request touch and go's?

2) Will I have to ask for the "option"?

3) If they clear me for the "option", what do I do on the last one to let them know where I'm going?

4) General controlled airport question - if i'm told to enter the pattern say on right base runway 5, does that clear me to turn final before I'm cleared to land? What about if I'm told to enter right downwind, can I turn base and final? The next part of this question is after a touch and go, can I do the pattern normally without being told to turn crosswind, downwind, etc.? Which way would I go in this case?

Wow that was a lot :goofy: hopefully you guys can help with all of my questions :confused: thanks
Click to expand...

CFI should go over this with you. But:

1) contact approach for flight following. They'll "hand you off" to tower at the appropriate time. If you can't get a hold of approach or they're too busy just contact tower on the sectional freq or AFD.

2) If you request closed traffic a lot if times they'll automatically clear you for the option. If not, just request it on initial contact.

3) "N12345 will be a full stop this pass for Signature Aviation."

4) yes. You can turn base, final or whatever. Just make sure you have a clearance before you land. Most likely ATC will give you a clearance on downwind but be prepared for it anywhere in the pattern. Providing "student pilot" will help out a lot.

Good luck. Listen to ATC and have fun.
 
1) If it's a Class D airport you should contact the tower with your intentions not approach unless otherwise stated in the AFD.
2) If you want touch and go's, request touch and go's. If you'r enot sure what you want, low approach, touch and go, stop and go, etc request the option.
3) On the last touch and go/stop and go/low approach/whatever tell them your intentions. For example, "Cessna 12345 departing north."
4) Depends. If tower tells you to extend downwind you must extend your downwind until further queued. If tower says they will call your base turn, don't turn until they call it. If they don't tell you specifically, they will expect you to complete the appropriate pattern. You don't have to tell them you are turning unless they ask you to.
 
Unless you plan on leaving your home field with flight following, there is little reason to contact approach first just for the sole purpose of being handed off to the Class D tower.

Most of us would just simply call the tower ten miles out, let them know you're inbound for touch and goes, and that you have the current ATIS.
 
Thanks everyone! I think I have all the answers I should need, and I feel a lot less nervous about this.
 
Be prepared for 5 pages of suggestions that was covered in the first few posts. :)
 
172SP said:
1) I'm going into a D airport that has approach control as well as tower. Who do I contact, and I guess what would I say to request touch and go's?
Click to expand...

"Whatever Approach, Cessna 12345, 10 miles south with X-Ray inbound touch and go."

172SP said:
2) Will I have to ask for the "option"?
Click to expand...

You won't have to, they will probably give it to you if the pattern isn't busy. They know your intentions with the above example.

172SP said:
3) If they clear me for the "option", what do I do on the last one to let them know where I'm going?
Click to expand...

Before last touch and go: "Tower, Cessna 12345 after this one I'd like to depart the pattern to the South."
"Cessna 12345 roger after completion of the option make left/right turn out."

172SP said:
4) General controlled airport question - if i'm told to enter the pattern say on right base runway 5, does that clear me to turn final before I'm cleared to land? What about if I'm told to enter right downwind, can I turn base and final? The next part of this question is after a touch and go, can I do the pattern normally without being told to turn crosswind, downwind, etc.? Which way would I go in this case?
Click to expand...

Yes you are free to move about the pattern:rofl:. Unless they say something like, "I'll call your base" Meaning they want you to extend your downwind for an airplane on final. Or "Extend your upwind I'll call your crosswind" meaning there is an airplane on downwind I want to get you separated from. Usually when you call the point they asked you to such as downind or base, they will issue your landing clearance right there.
"Cessna 12345 report right downwind"
"Cessna 12345 is downind runway xx"
"Cessna 12345 winds 230/3 cleared for the option"
Usually the tower will say, "Make continuous left/right closed traffic until advised" Meaning you don't have to ask permission to turn crosswind every time. Unless they say that, after the touch and go, just say, "Cessna 12345 request closed"

I would confirm all of this with your instructor, but when in doubt, just ask the controller.
 
172SP said:
1) I'm going into a D airport that has approach control as well as tower. Who do I contact, and I guess what would I say to request touch and go's?
Click to expand...

No need to contact approach entering a Class D unless you wanna set up flight following.

One thing that has NOT been mentioned but I would hope is painfully obvious...contact tower and establish communications BEFORE entering their class Delta airspace.

...and start ALL communications with "XYZ tower, Cessna 12345 student pilot...". They will be much more forgiving and helpful.
 
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I can't remember - one night, just before tower closed, my CFI and I were working on xwind landings and were the only traffic in the pattern. We did this for about an hour, and I *think* tower said something to me about not needing to bother him each time for clearance, just to go ahead and assume "cleared for the option" until he or I said otherwise. I'm pretty sure he was doing both of us a favor, but maybe I am mis-remembering.
 
If you get overwhelmed, don't be afraid to ask for a 360 or to leave the pattern and come back. The other day I was on downwind for 19L, tower asked for a short approach and had 3 jets lined up after. Requested right 360s until it was clear, Tower said call back when I was rejoining the pattern.
 
I would go over all the questions with my CFI. Getting other pilots opinions on the web,might not be the best way to get it right. Class D towers can be very difficult to work with ,if their busy,or the pilot is not prepared.
 
Some advice: Stay flexible. Listen, respond, and talk to them when required or needed. Talking on the radio is FUN. It's like when you were little and walkie-talkies were friggin' awesome. Except now it's even awesomer because you're in a friggin' airplane. In the AIR!

If you're hung up on the talking part, remember just to keep it relatively conversational. It's just another dude/dudette up there in the tower. If you forget to indicate your altitude on your initial call-in, so what? Tower says "say altitude" and you tell him. Don't forget it next time.

The exact procedures can vary depending on airport. If possible, you could listen into the tower frequency and glean some good information about how the controllers at that specific airport like to handle things. For example, at my home base (KPIE - St. Pete/Clearwater), you're never asked to report pattern positions. Approach control is also combined on the tower frequency. I'll give you how it'd work at my home airport, though the tower's side of the conversation is probably a bit off.

Me: St. Pete tower, Cessna 1476U 10 miles west at 1000 ft with Uniform, inbound for touch and goes.
PIE: Cessna 1476U, St. Pete Tower, squawk 1425
Me: 1425 for 76U
PIE: Cessna 1476U, St. Pete Tower, radar contact 8 miles west, enter right downwind for runway 22.
Me: Right downwind for 22, 76U
Click to expand...
So you can see I've called tower and given them the who/where/what. I've requested touch and goes because I know that's what I'll be doing. If I want to leave my options open to do a touch and go OR low approach OR go arounds, etc, I could instead request the option. I've got two-way communication so I know I'm cleared into their airspace. I've got a squawk code and they've radar identified me. And they've given me direction on runway and pattern.

So at this point I'm heading toward the field and I'm positioning myself for the pattern entry they've directed. Keep in mind that, unlike uncontrolled fields, the controller directs your pattern entry. He could very well have told me to enter on the base, or make a straight in approach.

Also, assuming the conversation goes as above, at this point I have "clearance" for all of the following things: enter airspace, drop to pattern altitude once desired, enter pattern as tower directs, set up for landing, fly all legs of the pattern including final approach. BUT, I've yet to get touch and go clearance so I cannot touch down. And you can be sure if I'm turning final and I've yet to get my clearance, I'll be calling tower back to find out whether I'm getting my clearance to land or not.

Typically, he'll clear me to touch and go at some point before, at, or soon after pattern entry. Or he'll be asking for me to look for the traffic ahead in the pattern, and once I call them in sight he'll clear me #2 or #3, etc.

During my landing clearance, the controller will typically tell me whether he wants left or right traffic after my touch and go.
PIE: Cessna 1476U, St. Pete Tower, cleared touch and go runway 22, after touch and go make left traffic.
Click to expand...
If I don't hear whether he wants left or right traffic, I'm calling him back to ask. Great. I do my touch and go, and now I'm "cleared" to fly the whole traffic pattern. But again, I can't touch down until I'm cleared touch and go, and I'll be bugging the controller if I'm about to turn final and haven't heard it. During the pattern, I'll also repeat to myself out loud a few times: "not cleared to land" so I don't forget.

Before my final touch and go, it'll go something like this:

Me: St. Pete Tower, Cessna 1476U is making this the last touch and go, request departure to the west.
PIE: Cessna 1476U, St. Pete Tower, cleared touch and go runway 22, west bound departure approved.
Click to expand...
And we're done.

Inevitably, on a busy day you'll get some things thrown in. Maybe he'll ask you to extend downwind and he'll call your base. No sweat. Maybe he calls traffic landing ahead. Look for it, call it in sight, then follow instructions. Stay flexible and try to keep a bird's-eye picture of what's happening. If you don't understand something, call them back and clarify. Don't make assumptions.

I think you'll do well.
 
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Shawn said:
No need to contact approach entering a Class D unless you wanna set up flight following.

One thing that has NOT been mentioned but I would hope is painfully obvious...contact tower and establish communications BEFORE entering their class Delta airspace.

...and start ALL communications with "XYZ tower, Cessna 12345 student pilot...". They will be much more forgiving and helpful.
Click to expand...

It's highly advisable to contact Approach if the Class D is inside a TRSA. It is, however, not required.

The TRSA would seem fairly likely as dedicated approach frequencies for a Class D are rather rare.

It's also highly advisable to have flight following on any student solo cross country anyway. That takes care of the TRSA.

Starting a message to Ground or Approach with "XYZ Tower" is probably not correct. :)
 
MAKG1 said:
Starting a message to Ground or Approach with "XYZ Tower" is probably not correct. :)
Click to expand...

Nor is calling the tower by another name.

"Napa Tower, Arrow 123SA, ready to depart 31L to the North"

"Uh, Arrow 123SA, this is Reid Hillview Tower"

"Oh. Yeah. Guess you know where I'm going."
 
murphey said:
For starters, you should be discussing all these questions with your CFI.
Next - never be afraid of including in your calls with the magic phrase "student pilot", as in

"Airportname, skyhawk 12345, student pilot, 5 miles west with information whatever, request three touch & goes"

They'll be happy to help. Depending on the airport, they'll probably expect you to do a regular pattern and the only conversation will be to clear you for landing/T&G. If there's traffic they might ask you to extend downwind and then will call your base leg.

Go talk to the CFI. He'll know the local procedures at the airports you'll be visiting.
Click to expand...

Do ^ it's exactly right. Contact the tower and tell them you are a student and need to do 3 touch-and-goes (are you sure? usually you need to do three full stop/taxi backs for the required landings at ATC).
 
Sac Arrow said:
Nor is calling the tower by another name.

"Napa Tower, Arrow 123SA, ready to depart 31L to the North"

"Uh, Arrow 123SA, this is Reid Hillview Tower"

"Oh. Yeah. Guess you know where I'm going."
Click to expand...

HA! I had that EXACT conversation with RHV tower a little over a week ago headed to KFUL!...opened with "Fullerton Tower..."
 
There was one time I flew 3 different airplanes within a couple hours: "XYZ Tower, Warrior..., no, Cessna..., no, wait, yeah, Archer 123..."

Talking with tower isn't a big deal. Just be clear about what you want and where you are, and make sure you clearly understand what they tell you. And if you aren't sure, ask. Some towered airports have ATIS, some don't, but they'll always expect you to get the weather and other info before you contact them.
 
asechrest said:
Typically, he'll clear me to touch and go at some point before, at, or soon after pattern entry. Or he'll be asking for me to look for the traffic ahead in the pattern, and once I call them in sight he'll clear me #2 or #3, etc.
Click to expand...

So what happens if he clears me for #2 if say someone is in front of me? Does this mean I can land after they clear the runway, or he will have to clear me again? I know now I'm just saying what if in my head :yesnod:
 
172SP said:
So what happens if he clears me for #2 if say someone is in front of me? Does this mean I can land after they clear the runway, or he will have to clear me again? I know now I'm just saying what if in my head :yesnod:
Click to expand...

If you get a "cleared to land #2 behind a XXX" you are cleared to land with no further instructions but it is your responsibility to maintain visual separation and make the call for a go around should something happen with the traffic ahead of you and he isn't clear of the runway.

If you get just "Cessna ABC #2 follow XXX on [pick a location]"...you will still need the magic words "cleared to land..." before touchdown.

I have had to ask the tower on a busy day while on short final if I am cleared to land...he kinda forgot about me! Had I not gotten a response, I was getting ready for a go around.
 
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172SP said:
So what happens if he clears me for #2 if say someone is in front of me? Does this mean I can land after they clear the runway, or he will have to clear me again? I know now I'm just saying what if in my head :yesnod:
Click to expand...

If he clears you touch and go #2, you wait to turn your base until the plane ahead of you is past your your lateral position on his final approach. So you'll be watching for him to pass you out the side window.

This should give ample space for you to approach and land after him.
 
172sp, you are a victim of the FAAs requirement of "only" 3 solo landings at a tower controlled airport, which was an ok requirement 50 years ago when I learned to fly, but has not been a sufficient amount of training in the past 20 or so years. The fact that your CFI is allowing this minimum requirement is a red flag.
The fact is that the CFI endorsement for a Private Pilot certificate states that you are Proficient in All Private Pilot Operations would require that you would not be seeking such detailed information on the internet.
Ya know whudda mean? You're not ready, and your CFI is slacking on you by implying that regulatory minimums meet Operationlly Proficient Pilot requirements.
 
You said you've gone into a C solo, the D will be the same and probably simpler.

If you are so worried about touch and goes, don't do them. Ask for the option, then you can stop and taxi off then do another lap, or a touch and go, or a few other things.
 
You don't automatically call your own base and final at an airport with a tower. Talk too the tower when the tower talks to you, otherwise just bring her on in!
 
I still question his assumption that he is doing T & Gs. The requirement for PP ATC controlled is:

Three solo takeoffs and landings to a full
stop at an airport with an operating
control tower

Contact the tower and tell them you are a student performing this requirement. They will try to make room for you...
 
Hmm I guess I didn't realize they had to be full stop landings. My instructor just said that I should do 3 touch and gos. I guess I'll talk to him about it and see what he says
 
172SP said:
Hmm I guess I didn't realize they had to be full stop landings. My instructor just said that I should do 3 touch and gos. I guess I'll talk to him about it and see what he says
Click to expand...
might wannna show him the regulation.

§61.109 Aeronautical experience.
(a) For an airplane single-engine rating...
.......
(5) 10 hours of solo flight time in a single-engine airplane, consisting of at least—
........

(iii) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.
 
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