Considering Private Pilot Cert

[ajmarks]

Hi,

I'm considering earning my private pilot certification (airplane). However, before I start the process, I wanted to make sure it made sense from a practical perspective. I'm hoping that you all can help me make an informed decision to proceed or not…

1. I've done a bit of exploration into what it would take from a time and money perspective -- looks like ~60hrs at about ~$150/hr to earn a private pilot cert. Seem about right?

2. From a practical perspective, what are my options for recreational flying *after* I get a license? Do most recreational pilots rent a plane when they want to fly or do they purchase a "group" plane and timeshare? Do you have to fly often to make getting the cert worthwhile? Can you rent planes "one-way" (eg, fly a rented plane to a destination, stay a bit, then rent another to fly back?)

I guess my general question is..what do most pilots do with their cert?

 

[JB1842]

If you are looking at it in a "practical" perspective, then you are in for a world of big surprises. Flying is fun. That should be enough incentive for you.

 

[TMetzinger]

Trying to justify flying for "practical" purposes is like trying to justify golf for "exercise" or "social" reasons.

There are all sorts of practical uses for flying. But very few of them make cents or dollars.

 

[TazzyTazzy]

If you are looking at it in a "practical" perspective, then you are in for a world of big surprises.

What he said.

I'm about half way through my PPL. It's not a cheap 'hobby'. I fly out of a club that has instructors.

After I get my PPL and I want to go away for the weekend, the rule is: For each 24 hours you take the plane, you will be charged for 2 hours minimum of hobbs time (when the engine is running). So, if I fly 2 hours to my destination and stay for 2 nights, than it works out perfect if the plane is only gone for 48 hours. Of course, I'd probably take it longer than 48 hours and I'd probably have the engine running longer than 2 hrs each way.

This is just one example, perhaps there's a place like this around you.

 

[write-stuff]

Hi, AJ. Go to www.FreeFlyBook.com and download the free 70-page ebook. It will answer just about any question you can ask about learning to fly. No sign up, no email needed. Just click and download.

 

[frfly172]

The joy of flying should be incentive enough. It's not cheap ,but it is fun. I guess if you do a lot of traveling ,you might say its practical.

 

[muleywannabe]

I am learning now. I am doing it for several reasons.

One, I have always wanted to fly, its been a dream of mine since I was a youngster.
two, I am eager to learn and understand new things and I enjoy a challenge
three, I love to travel and have a business office 9 hours away, so flying would be a great option.

most of all, I love to have fun!!!

 

[ajmarks]

After I get my PPL and I want to go away for the weekend, the rule is: For each 24 hours you take the plane, you will be charged for 2 hours minimum of hobbs time (when the engine is running). So, if I fly 2 hours to my destination and stay for 2 nights, than it works out perfect if the plane is only gone for 48 hours. Of course, I'd probably take it longer than 48 hours and I'd probably have the engine running longer than 2 hrs each way.

This is the kind of info that I'm looking for. I'm trying to answer the "what can I do with my license once I have it?" question.

Sounds like you have a club that offers access to rental planes and you can rent a plane for short trips.

 

[MAKG1]

And $150/hour is possible, but a bit on the cheap side. If you're assuming you can train in a 152, not everyone can. You have to be short-to-medium, not very heavy, and your instructor has to be small, friendly, and smell good (it gets kinda close in there).

A 172 is kinda like four folding chairs. A 152 is like two of them with the legs cut off.

I sort-of got a 152 to work. I'm fairly big (235) but my instructor was tiny (120). With full fuel, that put us 15 lb over maximum on one of the 152s and 5 lb under on the other. But I gave it up for the 172 because it was really cramped.

And it may take you longer than that 60 hours. Most people take somewhat longer. Some people take a lot longer. There doesn't seem to be any reliable way to predict where you'll fall. Some people say age … well, maybe, but any rule is very, very rough with lots of exceptions.

The minimum things are common, but by no means universal. One of the spots I rent from doesn't have any. The other is two hours per day weekday, and three on weekends (but the Hobbs rates are significantly cheaper). But minimums are not a factor for training; odds are you will never intentionally keep an airplane overnight (and it's very unlikely you'll do so unintentionally).

 

[Henning]

Hi,

I'm considering earning my private pilot certification (airplane). However, before I start the process, I wanted to make sure it made sense from a practical perspective. I'm hoping that you all can help me make an informed decision to proceed or not…

1. I've done a bit of exploration into what it would take from a time and money perspective -- looks like ~60hrs at about ~$150/hr to earn a private pilot cert. Seem about right?

2. From a practical perspective, what are my options for recreational flying *after* I get a license? Do most recreational pilots rent a plane when they want to fly or do they purchase a "group" plane and timeshare? Do you have to fly often to make getting the cert worthwhile? Can you rent planes "one-way" (eg, fly a rented plane to a destination, stay a bit, then rent another to fly back?)

I guess my general question is..what do most pilots do with their cert?

No, you can't rent one way, that is a major bummer issue for me. Rental typically also has daily minimums when you take a trip somewhere, so even if the plane is parked for 5 days (if you can manage to get such a rental time) you will have to pay the 2-3 hrs minimum for those days. If you fly clear across the country, it works out ok, if you only fly 2 hrs each way, it doesn't. The reality is that most people who earn a Private Pilot Certificate quit flying soon after due to the lack of practical use. The challenge of learning has been met, and just burning holes in the sky holds little allure for them. Most people who have a further use for flying, be it travel, aerobatics, or whatever, will buy a plane. Unless one flys greater than about 100hrs a year, this increases the expense over rental, but also increases the utility as the plane is always available on your schedule. Partnerships are a good median for those who don't fly 100hrs pr more, but they have their difficulties and limitations as well.

 

[Henning]

This is the kind of info that I'm looking for. I'm trying to answer the "what can I do with my license once I have it?" question.

Sounds like you have a club that offers access to rental planes and you can rent a plane for short trips.

You can travel, you can earn further ratings to get a flying job, you can fly aerobatics in competition or air shows, you can fly locally to airports in the area to get something to eat, you can commute to work under the right circumstances, you can just fly locally because you enjoy flying so much. You can explore your local region without dealing with traffic, you can get to wherever you like going that's normally a weekend trip and be home by dinner the first day. You can play golf courses normally too far to drive, you can get to islands without having to endure a boat ride. It all depends on what you like doing.

If you tell us a bit about yourself and where you see aviation fitting into your future, perhaps it would be easier to advise more directly.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

True.....if your really bent on being practical , you may want to forget it. Flying and owning seems to bring up things that are only overcome by the desire to fly. I flew many hours simply to look around at things, go get an expensive hamburger with other aircraft, fly a short distance to the ocean for lunch, etc. you always seem to spend more on the plane than you thought. Etc. etc. give it a few hours and see what you think. It's a no down side situation.

 

[eman1200]

there's a thread somewhere on this forum titled "what do you DO" or something like that....asks a similar question and got a lot of responses. try to find that for some good info, or maybe someone else's searching skillz are better than mine and can provide the link.

 

[dell30rb]

And $150/hour is possible, but a bit on the cheap side. If you're assuming you can train in a 152, not everyone can.

Here $150/hr is the going rate for a 172 and instructor.

 

[poadeleted20]

1. I've done a bit of exploration into what it would take from a time and money perspective -- looks like ~60hrs at about ~$150/hr to earn a private pilot cert. Seem about right?

There are a few other expenses in addition to those, but that's in the ballpark.

2. From a practical perspective, what are my options for recreational flying *after* I get a license? Do most recreational pilots rent a plane when they want to fly or do they purchase a "group" plane and timeshare?

I don't think there are any good statistics on that, and there is more of a continuum of solutions than your question appears to presume. Many rent, many belong to clubs with one to a dozen planes and 5-10 members per plane, many are in group ownership deals with 2-10 owners, and many own a plane by themselves.

Do you have to fly often to make getting the cert worthwhile?

The biggest problem is not making it "worthwhile" from a financial or other objective standpoint, but flying often enough to keep your proficiency enough to be safe. My personal feeling on that is the minimum amount of flying necessary for that is about 50 hours per year.

Can you rent planes "one-way" (eg, fly a rented plane to a destination, stay a bit, then rent another to fly back?)

No. The closest you can get to that with a rental is to arrange to take it for several days and then bring it back. Since airplanes are rented by the flight hour rather than by the day (as cars are), rental agencies typically want you to put some minimum number of hours on the plane for each day you have it, typically 2-3 hours per day. Thus, you can take the plane for 5 days, but if you only fly it 3 hours each way on your trip, you'll be charged for a minimum of 10-15 hours at the hourly rate.

I guess my general question is..what do most pilots do with their cert?

I've made a living off it for over 40 years, as well as having a lot of fun flying myself places I wanted to go.

 

[MickYoumans]

I would think that for most people on this forum, flying is just a fun hobby. Expensive, but still a hobby none the less. You would have to weigh out for yourself if your budget can afford it and if it means that much to you regardless of cost.

Until a few years ago, flying was strictly in the hobby relm for me too, until I became a consulting engineer. I'm probably one of the few non-commercial pilots around here that actually uses my love for flying to travel back and forth to work and get a per diem that covers my expenses.

With that said, I still love being able to fly down to the coast and back in the same day. I can't do that driving. If I had to pay for a hotel room it would exceed the cost of the flight. Not to mention that the flight is also a very big fun part of the trip for me. My wife has some back issues and she likes flying since it significantly reduces the travel time.

Once you get a license you will have to evaluate the costs of ownership versus rentals and flying clubs. Even though it probably cost more to own unless you do a considerable amount of flying, it sure is convient to go jump in the plane and go anytime you like without having to coordinate flying club usage and rentals.

Bottom line, you just have to weigh all of this out and see how it fits into your life and your budget.

 

[Ghery]

Practical? Not for my flying. However, take a look at the options for getting across the state of Washington.

1. Drive. Olympia to Pullman will take 5 1/2 to 6 hours depending on traffic. This, however, is the least expensive option. Cost is a couple tanks of gas.

2. Fly commercially. I'll do this again in late March. Time? 1 hour or slightly more to get to SEA from home. Arrive at least 2 hours before flight time (now that I have GE I should be able to reduce that a bit). 1 hour or there abouts from gate to gate for the flight. Then get picked up at KPUW to go wherever. Total - 4+ hours. The tickets on Horizon that I just bought this morning are $288 rt. Figure on a little over 100 miles rt to drive up to the airport and some money for parking.

3. Fly myself. If the weather is good enough (I have an instrument rating, but I am NOT going to flog my way through the clag all the way across the state - too much like work) we'll fly. 2+ hours on the Hobbs each way. More if I fly a 172, about that in the 182 or Arrow (assuming I don't fly VFR and have to dodge weather, I've logged close to 3 hours one way doing that). Club's 182 is currently $116/hr wet, so you're looking at a minimum of close to $500 to rent the plane. And our club rates beat any FBO on the field by about $30/hr. This is the fastest way. 20 minutes from the house to the hangar, 20 minutes to pre-flight, 10 minutes to taxi to the end of the runway and another 2 hours to get there. Just under 3 hours door to KPUW.

Flying myself is the fastest. Driving myself isn't a whole lot slower than riding Horizon, but does make for a very long day if you are going over to WSU to teach a 1 1/2 hour seminar in the middle of the day. I can't trust the weather in late March (we have a wonder ice machine here), so I bought the airline tickets. Going over in the summer or early fall? We'll typically fly as it is faster and the view is better.

Now, I can't help with current costs. When I learned to fly (2000-2001) I was paying the club $50/hr wet for our C-172N. Same plane is about $85 to $89/hr wet today. Still cheap compared with FBOs. I had about 60 hours total when I took the check ride. Don't forget that there are a number of other things that you'll need to buy, it's not just airplane and CFI time.

Flying isn't cheap, and one could argue about practicality. But the fun factor overrides all of that.

 

[mtuomi]

There are some clubs that have no daily minimum hour requirements. And very often especially with FBO's these are negotiable. In many parts of the country, it is very much a renters market.

There are many many ways to use your ticket. I can imagine doing $100 hamburger runs gets a bit old after a while, so think outside the box and a PPL can give you so many possibilities. I got mine last summer, and so far have flown in 3 countries, and am just planning a 20-hour round-Europe trip next summer in a Saratoga.

 

[MarkZ]

Our flying club (an equity share club) has no minimum daily requirement. If I take the aircraft for a week it is "my aircraft." Do some research at your local field and see if there might be a flying club, partial ownership, or partnership opportunity. It's a shame AOPA discontinued their flying club website before it could get started, as I'm not sure if there is an online source of local flying clubs.

 

[ja_user]

AJ, where do you live?

 

[DaleB]

Flight instruction around here will cost you (on the low end) $99 per hour for a Cherokee 140, plus $35 or $40 per hour for the instructor. I gather that's pretty cheap compared to most places.

My club dues are $45 a month, plus anywhere from $86 per hour "wet" (including fuel and oil) for a 172 to $120/hr for a 182. Cross-country trips are fine, you only pay a minimum of 1 hour per day. The local FBO has a 3 hour/day minimum on their rentals.

Right now I'm looking for partners for an RV-12. Monthly expenses (hangar, insurance) will run around $90 each assuming four pilot/owners, and it should run between $30 and $35 an hour to fly including fuel, oil and engine reserve. Since it's an E-LSA we can do our own inspection and maintenance and at least some repairs. That's some pretty reasonable flying.

So... flying can be pretty expensive, but doesn't HAVE to be. I'd say get your training, fly some, rent some, then see what you really want to do. It will be a lot clearer once you've got some time in the log book and a few trips with your wife/GF/friend(s)/family behind you.

 

[noobJohn]

Interesting that you're planning this all out up front. I had some vague visions of what I might do in the future but my real thought up front was, "I want to learn how to fly a plane."

One of the best things about my experience so far (~11 months, ~80 hours) is that it's a pay-as-you-go experience. Every flight has been interesting and, with the exception of one bumpy flight under the hood, enjoyable. From my point of view, you're not "investing" a ton of money up front to get your license. It's good to have the money in the bank before you start so you can fly frequently until your checkride. Perhaps Im not making sense but the bottom line is you pay to fly for an hour (with or without an instructor) and you fly for an hour. Flying is fun. I don't think about it a lot deeper than that. I enjoyed the training, and I've enjoyed some short cross countries and local flights with family and friends since getting my license.

I'll likely buy a plane at some point for the freedom to fly without scheduling issues but my experience with sailboats has me a little gun shy. I kept a sailboat in the water for about 8 years. Over time, I started to feel that the sailboat owned me instead of vice versa. It locks you into a hobby that sucks down your time, money, and attention. At first it's all good but one day you look around and go ???? is this what I wanted? A bit like love and marriage.

Hi,

I'm considering earning my private pilot certification (airplane). However, before I start the process, I wanted to make sure it made sense from a practical perspective. I'm hoping that you all can help me make an informed decision to proceed or not…

1. I've done a bit of exploration into what it would take from a time and money perspective -- looks like ~60hrs at about ~$150/hr to earn a private pilot cert. Seem about right?

2. From a practical perspective, what are my options for recreational flying *after* I get a license? Do most recreational pilots rent a plane when they want to fly or do they purchase a "group" plane and timeshare? Do you have to fly often to make getting the cert worthwhile? Can you rent planes "one-way" (eg, fly a rented plane to a destination, stay a bit, then rent another to fly back?)

I guess my general question is..what do most pilots do with their cert?

 

[iflyvfr]

There are many many ways to use your ticket. I can imagine doing $100 hamburger runs gets a bit old after a while, so think outside the box and a PPL can give you so many possibilities. I got mine last summer, and so far have flown in 3 countries, and am just planning a 20-hour round-Europe trip next summer in a Saratoga.

Wow, now that's outside the box! Way to get utility from your certificate.

I've said this a hundred times, but flying a 150 or a 172 can be relatively inexpensive as an option if that's what you can afford. I've been west to Yellowstone, down to Sun-n-Fun, up to New England and over to the Outer Banks in my 172, all VFR.

The trick is to find some like minded individuals who enjoy flying more than the next airport over and go places! If you find a partner, you cut the cost of flying and owning in half (should you choose ownership).

I've dragged some pilots from Ohio over to Luray caverns in two 172's and 2 years later we still talk about the fun we had and we were back in our own beds that night.

 

[muleywannabe]

Here $150/hr is the going rate for a 172 and instructor.

Here too. Pretty reasonable

 

[ajmarks]

Thanks for all the replies so far -- this is really helping me make an informed decision.

I know I'm probably over-analyzing this, but I just don't want to spend $10K over the next year and come to the realization that I can't afford to fly "post-license". It sounds like there's a lot of options, depending on the kind of flying I'd want to do and how often.

I think at this point, I'm going to visit a few flight schools, do some research and see what happens. The nice thing is, it seems like you get what you put into it and you can spend a little money to try it out.

That said, I expect to get hooked right away. I'm an engineer by profession so the physics and mechanics fascinate me. Plus, I took a "physics of flight" course in college which allowed me to pass my FAA written exam and (briefly) fly our professor's plane. Granted, this was 20 years ago, but I remember it vividly.

I live just outside of Philadelphia, PA. If there are any locals on here who can recommend clubs, schools, CFIs, etc, please drop me a private message (no spam please!).

 

[poadeleted20]

I know I'm probably over-analyzing this, but I just don't want to spend $10K over the next year and come to the realization that I can't afford to fly "post-license". It sounds like there's a lot of options, depending on the kind of flying I'd want to do and how often.

Based on my 44 years of flying, I think you should figure on spending something on the order of $10K per year on your flying hobby. Could be more, could be less, depending on what route you go (e.g., ownership vs renting), but if you think about that amount now, you won't be surprised later on.

I think at this point, I'm going to visit a few flight schools, do some research and see what happens. The nice thing is, it seems like you get what you put into it and you can spend a little money to try it out.

Excellent thinking.

 

[tehmightypirate]

Getting a pilots license and renting/buying a plane is a lot like learning to sail and renting/buying a sailboat. It's expensive, time consuming, and really isn't a necessary requirement for anything you may want to do. But, damn, if it isn't really fun and exciting. Honestly, the only way to do it is to throw out the cost of getting your pilots license and maintaining it. THEN look at the costs of taking short trips with family/friends, look at flying yourself to locations for work or vacation, etc. That's about the only way to "justify" it financially.

As for a truly practical use I'm surprised nobody mentioned volunteer service or the Civil Air Patrol. You can do a lot of good for PALS, pilots and paws, angel flights, or just helping people out (you'll likely need to get more hours for many of these). You can also work on ratings up to your commercial and do instruction, sight-seeing, etc. Keep in mind these are ways to make flying cheaper/have a purpose to fly. These will not PAY for your flying.

I'd say the Civil Air Patrol is something you should check out. Cheap planes, free instructors (sometimes), and a truly life-saving purpose to flying. My father and I both were in the CAP for about 7 years. I got a scholarship to solo and used the cheap planes ($60/tach. hour (wet) for a Cessna 172) to get my private license. My father got his IFR and commercial and participated in many practice and some actual search and rescue missions.

 

[nosehair]

Just go take enough lessons to solo. By then, you will know enough to make a decision .