Confused about segmented circle at Reid Hillview San Jose

Robert Ryan

Robert Ryan

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According to the sectional the traffic patterns at KRHV are what I’d expect for two parallel runways, with 13R and 31R having right traffic. But the segmented circle at the field only has one pair of traffic indicators that seem to be for 13L/31R. Can someone help a student who just soloed and is starting to work on cross countries?
 

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What does the Chart Supplement (A/FD) say?

Is there another segmented circle?
(Edit: I only saw one on the satellite pix.)

It’s towered, isn’t it? Use whatever pattern tower tells you.
 
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The A/FD is the same as the sectional and says right traffic for 13R & 31R. There is no other segmented circle. I would expect the same instructions from the tower I’m just trying to make sense of different segmented circles.
 
Correct 13R/31R right traffic and 13L/31L Left terrific. Used to be the home airport. It is towered and they will state the pattern.

I believe it's segmented this way given 31R/13L is the dominant runway. 31R/13L is also the nighttime runway.
 
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Why they don’t have a segmented circle like this?

upload_2019-11-17_23-50-34.png
 
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Robert Ryan said:
@Clip4 thats my question, but it seems like @NordicDave has a point with the preferred runway.
Click to expand...

That and with the airport layout with 2 parallels why would anyone use the runway furthest from the ramps? The other oddity is each runway has its own tower frequency.
REID–HILLVIEW TOWER 119.8 (Rwy 13L–31R) 126.1 (Rwy 13R–31L) (1500–0600Z‡)
 
Robert Ryan said:
According to the sectional the traffic patterns at KRHV are what I’d expect for two parallel runways, with 13R and 31R having right traffic. But the segmented circle at the field only has one pair of traffic indicators that seem to be for 13L/31R. Can someone help a student who just soloed and is starting to work on cross countries?
Click to expand...

Yeah. There is a contradiction here. Do you know if the Segmented Circle is lighted? When the Tower is open, the Circle is not pertinent. If it’s night and you can’t see it when the Tower is closed then it’s kinda like it’s not really there. But yeah, the Circle and the Chart and AF/D are not on the ‘same page.’
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. There is a contradiction here. Do you know if the Segmented Circle is lighted? When the Tower is open, the Circle is not pertinent. If it’s night and you can’t see it when the Tower is closed then it’s kinda like it’s not really there. But yeah, the Circle and the Chart and AF/D are not on the ‘same page.’
Click to expand...

31R is the dominant runway based on common winds and occasionally 13L. At night only 13L/31R is lit.

Just FYI... common practice at KRHV is arrival/departing traffic is 13L/31R and students flying pattern circles on parallel runway 13R/31L, especially when transient flight traffic is heavy.

Clip4 said:
That and with the airport layout with 2 parallels why would anyone use the runway furthest from the ramps? The other oddity is each runway has its own tower frequency.
REID–HILLVIEW TOWER 119.8 (Rwy 13L–31R) 126.1 (Rwy 13R–31L) (1500–0600Z‡)
Click to expand...

Both runways commonly use only Tower freq 119.8. Always call 119.8 when approaching this Delta airspace. You will be assigned a runway, and rarely the tower will have you switch the frequency for the other runway. Hundreds of KRHV flights, and only twice was asked to use the other frequency for the parallel runway.
 
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Are there any GA airports that have parallel runways with traffic patterns on the same side - e.g. left traffic for 13R and 13L?
 
Clip4 said:
That and with the airport layout with 2 parallels why would anyone use the runway furthest from the ramps? The other oddity is each runway has its own tower frequency.
REID–HILLVIEW TOWER 119.8 (Rwy 13L–31R) 126.1 (Rwy 13R–31L) (1500–0600Z‡)
Click to expand...

Frequency 119.8 for the dominant runway is used when approaching this Delta airspace. If someone calls the non-dominant runway freq, you will likely be asked to switch to 119.8. When the non-dominant runway is assigned, on very rare occasions tower will ask pilots to use the other parallel runway frequency. Hundreds of landings at KRHV, I can only remember 2 occasions being asked to use the other frequency when assigned the non-dominant parallel runway.

luvflyin said:
Yeah. There is a contradiction here. Do you know if the Segmented Circle is lighted? When the Tower is open, the Circle is not pertinent. If it’s night and you can’t see it when the Tower is closed then it’s kinda like it’s not really there. But yeah, the Circle and the Chart and AF/D are not on the ‘same page.’
Click to expand...

Runway 13L/31R is the only runway lit for night flights. Also the tower closed about 10pm if memory serves. and with no tower guidance for late night flights, the circle is all that remains on the field to indicate traffic.
 
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NordicDave said:
Frequency 119.8 for the dominant runway is used when approaching this Delta airspace. If someone calls the non-dominant runway freq, you will likely be asked to switch to 119.8. When the non-dominant runway is assigned, on very rare occasions tower will ask pilots to use the other parallel runway frequency. Hundreds of landings at KRHV, I can only remember 2 occasions being asked to use the other frequency when assigned the non-dominant parallel runway.



Runway 13L/31R is the only runway lit for night flights. Also the tower closed about 10pm if memory serves. and with no tower guidance for late night flights, the circle is all that remains on the field to indicate traffic.
Click to expand...

There is the answer to why the segmented circle on show one runway. The segmented circle is for uncontrolled operations, Most the time the when tower is closed is night and the 13L/31R is the only one lit.
 
Robert Ryan said:
The A/FD is the same as the sectional and says right traffic for 13R & 31R. There is no other segmented circle. I would expect the same instructions from the tower I’m just trying to make sense of different segmented circles.
Click to expand...
(I got a chance to get back to this...)

It's already been posted, but it does seem that only one rwy is lit at night (13L/31R). I found this comment in the chart supplement:

>>>
ACTIVATE REIL Rwy 13L and Rwy 31R, MIRL Rwy 13L–31R—CTAF. PAPI Rwy 13L, Rwy 31R and Rwy 31L opr continuously
<<<

and since the twr would be closed, the segmented circle would be the traffic pattern indicator for the one rwy with lights. I wouldn't have even noticed that indicator on the segmented circle until you pointed it out.

My first CFI took me on a night XC and told me ahead of time the airports we'd hit. I still remember, "You checked all available information?", "Yes." Then we got to the one airport that had a CTAF and rwy light frequencies that were different. The only place that was shown was in the A/FD. I had looked at the airport info, but didn't pay close enough attention to notice the frequencies were different. I didn't make that mistake again.
 
That sounds like an intense learning moment. I imagine you arrived at the pattern, four-clicks and then nothing. Did the CFI know and let you squirm until you figured it out or did you have to orbit and check the charts?
 
Send a note to the airport manager pointing out the omission. He can get the missing traffic pattern indicators added, issue a NOTAM, and/or have a note added to the chart supplement.
 
Robert Ryan said:
That sounds like an intense learning moment. I imagine you arrived at the pattern, four-clicks and then nothing. Did the CFI know and let you squirm until you figured it out or did you have to orbit and check the charts?
Click to expand...
Pretty much all of the above.

"Huh - the lights didn't come on."
"I thought you got all the information?"
"I did too."
"Now what are you going to do?"
"Well, I know the airport lights are off, so I'll aim for the dark spot."
"...uhh..."
"Just kidding. 'Your airplane' while I look in the A/FD."

That airport is in an area with a whole lot of other airports that all share the same CTAF. To keep confusion to a minimum, that airport used a different freq for the lights, otherwise the whole county would have lit up. The last I checked, the freqs were changed some time ago to be on the CTAF.

My CFI told me later that if I HAD turned on the lights, she would have known I did my homework and we would have skipped that airport. That was one of her tests for her students.

Lesson learned - I double check the chart supplement (A/FD) for each airport on my plan.
 
Larry in TN said:
Send a note to the airport manager pointing out the omission. He can get the missing traffic pattern indicators added, issue a NOTAM, and/or have a note added to the chart supplement.
Click to expand...
It's possible that they don't want people flying the pattern on that side when the tower is closed because of the proximity to the SJC surface area.
 
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