condition inspection??

pmanton

pmanton

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N1431A
We have a new RV-12 here at the airpark. The FAA is going to inspect it and issue the first airworthiness certificate.

Does the first condition inspection take place before the FAA shows up or after the AW certificate is issued.

Thanks

Paul
N1431A
N83803
2AZ1
 
pmanton said:
We have a new RV-12 here at the airpark. The FAA is going to inspect it and issue the first airworthiness certificate.

Does the first condition inspection take place before the FAA shows up or after the AW certificate is issued.

Thanks

Paul
N1431A
N83803
2AZ1
Click to expand...
the first condition inspection takes place 12 months after the FAA issues the certificate.
 
Tom-D said:
the first condition inspection takes place 12 months after the FAA issues the certificate.
Click to expand...

We had the FAA here for another Airworthiness Certificate issuance inspection and the owner was told he must do a condition inspection before he could fly it. He hadn't applied for his repairmans certificate so it delayed his first flight.

So The FAA here (AZ) holds that a condition inspection must be preformed before the first flight. Our question is do it before the FAA shows up or after.

Some years ago I was involved with importing an airplane. My PMI told me to do an annual before the FAA showed up to issue the AW certificate. (That was Renton at the time)

Paul
Salome, AZ
 
pmanton said:
We have a new RV-12 here at the airpark. The FAA is going to inspect it and issue the first airworthiness certificate.

Does the first condition inspection take place before the FAA shows up or after the AW certificate is issued.

Thanks

Paul
N1431A
N83803
2AZ1
Click to expand...

You should talk to Geico266 before you do anything.
 
pmanton said:
We had the FAA here for another Airworthiness Certificate issuance inspection and the owner was told he must do a condition inspection before he could fly it. He hadn't applied for his repairmans certificate so it delayed his first flight.

So The FAA here (AZ) holds that a condition inspection must be preformed before the first flight. Our question is do it before the FAA shows up or after.

Some years ago I was involved with importing an airplane. My PMI told me to do an annual before the FAA showed up to issue the AW certificate. (That was Renton at the time)

Paul
Salome, AZ
Click to expand...
Importing is a bit different than new building. we have FARs that dictate that the aircraft must have had an annual before it is given a AWC.

Newly built will need to comply with it's letter of limitations which will be issued when the FAA issues the EXP airworthiness certificate.
 
Well here we go again. This from the same FSDO. Last year a new experimental was born at out airpark. The inspecter from the FSDO told the owner that he'd need to do a condition inspection prior to flight. So we were wondering if it should be done before or after the AW cert was issued. Hence the post.

A call was made to the inspector who is coming out to the airpark.She said just what Tom said. The first conditional is one year after the AW cert is issued.

I'll stick to certified airplanes I think. :)

Paul
 
A new home built airplane does not need a condition inspection before the AW inspection. Period.
 
Geico266 said:
A new home built airplane does not need a condition inspection before the AW inspection. Period.
Click to expand...

But ... you have to have an entry in the log book that you have inspected the plane and found it in a condition for safe operation for the AW inspection by the FAA. I remember he asked for that. Now that's Exp/AB .. not sure about ELSA.

RT
 
Think of the condition inspection as an annual inspection for experimental aircraft. That's all it is, sans a check for compliance with the type certificate data sheet (as there isn't one).

It's due a year after the initial issuance of the experimental airworthiness certificate by the FAA.

When the FAA issues the experimental airworthiness, that takes the place of a condition inspection, which is to say, one doesn't become necessary for another 12 months.

Much in the same way that a check ride with the FAA for a certificate, rating, or privilege takes the place of a flight review, the inspection by the FAA and the issuance of the experimental airworthiness certificate means you don't need a condition inspection for another 12 months.
 
DouglasBader said:
Think of the condition inspection as an annual inspection for experimental aircraft. That's all it is, sans a check for compliance with the type certificate data sheet (as there isn't one).
Click to expand...

Have you read a letter of limitation written under the new format? I don't think you have or you wouldn't make that statement.

Because that is the type certificate and data sheet of E-AB aircraft. it will give the minimum requirements of a condition inspection, by requiring FAR 43, D be used as the minimum required list.
Plus the new letters say all ADs on equipment installed will be complied with.
 
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Tom-D said:
Plus the new letters say all ADs on equipment installed will be complied with.
Click to expand...

bsflag.gif


http://www.eaa.org/news/2012/AC 39-7D.pdf
 
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Anymouse said:
So, because the AC39-7D is posted on the EAA Website, it's not FAA guidance anymore??
Click to expand...
it is FAA guidance and does make AD compliance mandatory.

see para (b) 1&2

see any exceptions given here ?

10. AD COMPLIANCE. ADs are regulations issued under part 39. Therefore, no person may operate a product to which an AD applies, except in accordance with the requirements of that AD. Owners and operators should understand that to “operate” not only means piloting the aircraft, but also causing or authorizing the product to be used for the purpose of air navigation, with or without the right of legal control as owner, lessee, or otherwise. Compliance with Emergency ADs can be a problem for operators of leased aircraft because they may not be aware of the AD and safety may be jeopardized.
 
Why, yes. Yes I do...

b. Non-TC’d Aircraft and Products Installed Thereon. Non-TC’d aircraft
(e.g., amateur-built aircraft, experimental exhibition) are aircraft for which the FAA has not issued a TC under part 21. The AD applicability statement will identify if the AD applies to non-TC’d aircraft or engines, propellers, and appliances installed thereon.
 
Anymouse said:
Why, yes. Yes I do...

b. Non-TC’d Aircraft and Products Installed Thereon. Non-TC’d aircraft
(e.g., amateur-built aircraft, experimental exhibition) are aircraft for which the FAA has not issued a TC under part 21. The AD applicability statement will identify if the AD applies to non-TC’d aircraft or engines, propellers, and appliances installed thereon.
Click to expand...

To be more precise, it is actually paragraph 9b.
 
PuertoRicoFlyer said:
To be more precise, it is actually paragraph 9b.
Click to expand...

You best read the whole AC start with para 16.
16. SUMMARY.
a. Owner/Operator Responsibility. The registered owner or operator of an aircraft is responsible for compliance with ADs for the airframe, engine, propeller, and appliance as stated in the applicability statement of the AD for all aircraft it owns or operates.

and then para:
10. AD COMPLIANCE. ADs are regulations issued under part 39. Therefore, no person may operate a product to which an AD applies, except in accordance with the requirements of that AD. Owners and operators should understand that to “operate” not only means piloting the aircraft, but also causing or authorizing the product to be used for the purpose of air navigation, with or without the right of legal control as owner, lessee, or otherwise. Compliance with Emergency ADs can be a problem for operators of leased aircraft because they may not be aware of the AD and safety may be jeopardized.

and then :
(5) “This AD applies to Lycoming Engines Models AEIO-360-A1A and IO-360-A1A.” This statement makes the AD applicable to the engine models listed that are installed on TC’d aircraft.
b. Non-TC’d Aircraft and Products Installed Thereon. Non-TC’d aircraft
(e.g., amateur-built aircraft, experimental exhibition) are aircraft for which the FAA has not issued a TC under part 21. The AD applicability statement will identify if the AD applies to non-TC’d aircraft or engines, propellers, and appliances installed thereon. The following are examples of applicability statements for ADs related to non-TC’d aircraft:
(1) “This AD applies to Honeywell International Inc. Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) models GTCP36-150(R) and GTCP36-150(RR). These APUs are installed on, but not limited to, Fokker Services B.V. Model F.28 Mark 0100 and F.28 Mark 0070 airplanes, and Mustang Aeronautics, Inc. Model Mustang II experimental airplanes. This AD applies to any aircraft with the listed APU models installed.” This statement makes the AD applicable to the listed auxiliary power unit (APU) models installed on TC’d aircraft, as well as non-TC’d aircraft.
(2) “This AD applies to Lycoming Engines Models AEIO-360-A1A and IO-360-A1A. This AD applies to any aircraft with the listed engine models installed.” This statement makes the AD applicable to the listed engine models installed on TC’d and non-TC’d aircraft.

Plus when the letter of limitations makes the ADs required

they will be complied with.

note the date of the AC,Date: 3/2/12 AC No: 39-7D

things are changing
 
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First, your absolute statement that I called BS on...

Tom-D said:
Plus the new letters say all ADs on equipment installed will be complied with.
Click to expand...

And the part I bolded before...

Tom-D said:
The AD applicability statement will identify if the AD applies to non-TC’d aircraft or engines, propellers, and appliances installed thereon.
Click to expand...

If the AD specifically says it applies to non-TC'd aircraft, then it does. If it doesn't say that, then it doesn't.

Haven't seen anything new in the limitations format. Sure as hell haven't seen the wording you describe in the past.

I still say you're full of cocka Tom.
 
Here is the way I read it, but I am an admitted EAB newb.

The AD applies to the TCed PART regardless of what it is installed on. So it would seem to me that if you are using a TCed engine the ADs would affect you even if you have a nonTCed plane.

It would also seem that getting out from under it would be NBD, just "modify" the component out of compliance with its TC
 
Anymouse said:
First, your absolute statement that I called BS on...



And the part I bolded before...



If the AD specifically says it applies to non-TC'd aircraft, then it does. If it doesn't say that, then it doesn't.

Haven't seen anything new in the limitations format. Sure as hell haven't seen the wording you describe in the past.

I still say you're full of cocka Tom.
Click to expand...

You can believe what you like, but here is another AC you should read that proves you wrong.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ea051001b2ce246e862569b500508099/$FILE/AC39-7C.pdf
 
Tom-D said:
You can believe what you like, but here is another AC you should read that proves you wrong.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ea051001b2ce246e862569b500508099/$FILE/AC39-7C.pdf
Click to expand...

That's been superseded.

Go try the link I posted earlier.
 
To the OP - Simple logic applies here...
You cannot sign off a condition inspection before you are issued the Repairman's Certificate for that airframe...
You will not be given that authority until AFTER the product of your work is declared airworthy... (your Final Exam to pass the course)

So, simple logic would apply that once the FAA person, who has Inspection Authority signs the aircraft log off as having found it airworthy, the aircraft is in fact now Airworthy and the 100 hour / 12 month clock is running...

Once you are given inspection authority as the Repairman of that experimental airplane you pick up from there and if you want to guild the lily you can add a single sentence on the line below the FAA inspection signature that you also find it airworthy,...
Lacking that, you will need AI authority to sign it off..

Same logic also applies to a new aircraft... Once the DER inspector signs it off as airworthy and hands it over to the buyer, the buyer does not NOW have to go hire a mechanic to inspect it and sign off before the new owner can fly it away from the factory...
 
Unless there has beeen a recent change, experimentals have no 100 hour inspection requirement, only an annual.
 
Dr. O said:
Lacking that, you will need AI authority to sign it off..
Click to expand...

You do not need to be an AI/IA to sign off an annual "condition inspection", even if you are not a repairman.

ANY A&P can make the endorsement.

And you do not have to have a repairmans cert or ANY credentials to actually work on an experimental amateur built plane.... the annual condition inspection is the only one that requires a repairman or A&P.
 
Skylane81E said:
Here is the way I read it, but I am an admitted EAB newb.

The AD applies to the TCed PART regardless of what it is installed on. So it would seem to me that if you are using a TCed engine the ADs would affect you even if you have a nonTCed plane.

It would also seem that getting out from under it would be NBD, just "modify" the component out of compliance with its TC
Click to expand...

THere is no requirement to maintain an engine in type certificated condition once its installed on an EAB airframe. Returning it to service in a certified airframe MAY involve more than simple paperwork..
 
Ads will apply to Airframe, Propeller & Applyance, as installed on a U.S. registered Aircraft-If the AD is covering an engine EVEN WHEN INSTALLED IN AN EXPERIMENTAL.
You need to read the body of the AD to see if it applys to that make & model even a modified engine it might require an alternnent method of complyance. Period.
The AD must be read as to the actions required if any, READ the AD it might apply, don't just guess it dosn't include your toy just because it's Placarded Experimental.

I've seen ADs worded to include Experimentals & TCed airframes-"Owners of Civil registered aircraft" bla bla bla "from date of recipt but no later than ##/##/### or 500 hours time in service "Bla bla bla.

Can't just assume It doesn't include me ! It just might.
 
Normally, prior to the AWC inspection you'll conduct what for all intensive pruposes is a CI and make the following logbook entry:

"I certify that I have inspected the aircraft in accordance with FAR part 43, appendix D, and consider it eligible for an experimental airworthiness certificate for the purpose of operating amateur-built aircraft under the provisions of FAR part 21.191(g)."

Sign and date. Oh and don't forget any applicable equipment entries (ie pitot/static, ELT, transponder, etc).


Note this first entry is slightly different than the entry for the annual Condition Inspection, which is in the OP lims: “I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43, and was found to be in a condition for safe operation.”
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