computer question...

woodstock

woodstock

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I just saw a friend's new monitor yesterday and was blown away. 24 inch wide screen LCD, and while I don't know what the specs were (and how to interpret them at any rate) it looked great. It would be perfect for my photography.

I don't think I need a new computer yet, the laptop is chugging right along. How tough would it be to set up a new monitor with my laptop - I assume it would require a docking station, right? or is it possible to get a wireless keyboard/mouse for the laptop, and just plug the monitor in? The laptop is three years old..

what are the important monitor specs to look for, anyway?

Thanks, I figure we have a lot of computer-knowledgeable people here, and I'm not one of them...
 
What is the graphics card you have in your laptop? More specifically, what's the maximum resolution you can use with that card? A 24" monitor is great if you run it at the right resolution. If you have a crap graphics card (or integrated) that isn't capable of running the monitor at a rather high resolution, it's not going to look that well.
 
woodstock said:
I just saw a friend's new monitor yesterday and was blown away. 24 inch wide screen LCD, and while I don't know what the specs were (and how to interpret them at any rate) it looked great. It would be perfect for my photography.

I don't think I need a new computer yet, the laptop is chugging right along. How tough would it be to set up a new monitor with my laptop - I assume it would require a docking station, right? or is it possible to get a wireless keyboard/mouse for the laptop, and just plug the monitor in? The laptop is three years old..

what are the important monitor specs to look for, anyway?

Thanks, I figure we have a lot of computer-knowledgeable people here, and I'm not one of them...
Click to expand...

You just plug it in. Your laptop has a DVI port.

You want a 24" with 1920x1200 resolution.

I have a Dell 2405FPW, which you can find for around $250 on eBay. The only thing Dell makes good is LCD monitors.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/category.aspx?c=us&category_id=6761&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
 
Ooh good points, let me find out more info. Thank you for letting me know, that makes sense.

if I just plug it in, I suppose I can plug in the keyboard separately too? no docking station?
 
woodstock said:
Ooh good points, let me find out more info. Thank you for letting me know, that makes sense.

if I just plug it in, I suppose I can plug in the keyboard separately too? no docking station?
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Beth, My external keyboard, wireless mouse, printer and external hard drive are all USB components. So I got a 4-into-1 USB port and plug all of them into it, and then there's only that and the power cord to deal with when I want to go portable. My wife has a similar setup, with an external monitor, so she has 3 plugs. As for a docking station, my guess is that if your computer is more than a year old, which it is, you will find the manuf no longer provides a docking station for it.
 
Yes, look on the back of your computer with a semi-oval connector with three rows of pins. That is the monitor port. Once you have it plugged in, locate the function key, usually in blue for the external monitor screen redrive. Sometimes it has a little icon of two screens on the key. It generally will be F4, F5, F6 or maybe another Fx key along the top. Hold the Fn (blue) key, and press that monitor key. Your new monitor should display the image. If you press the monitor key repeatedly, it will cycle through the selection of laptop monitor, external monitor, or both.

If you want a docking station for an older laptop, ebay is your friend. External keyboards and mice are connected to the USB on the side or back. It looks kind of like a Suaro (AZ) cactus with a ball at the end.
 
For a short time, I was feeding my 46" Sharp LCD with my HP laptop. With its own 1920x1080 resolution, it was wonderful.
 
This thread is pretty much my next setup - a very small laptop (12" screen or less) plugged into a 24" monitor at home, with a USB keyboard. When I travel the laptop unplugs and goes in my shoulder bag.
 
Beth - if you'll post the make and model of your laptop, we can tell you pretty quickly if it will drive the type of display you're talking about.

You absolutely want to drive the display at it's native resolution, meaning that if the display has 1200 rows of 1920 pixels each, your laptop graphics adapter needs to be able to address each and every one of those 2,304,000 dots uniquely. Otherwise, your monitor ends up "stretching" the signal it gets to make it fit, and that can be ugly, especially where photographs are concerned. The newer the laptop, the more likely it is that the video hardware in it is capable of driving a big screen.

Best wishes,
 
TMetzinger said:
Beth - if you'll post the make and model of your laptop, we can tell you pretty quickly if it will drive the type of display you're talking about.

You absolutely want to drive the display at it's native resolution, meaning that if the display has 1200 rows of 1920 pixels each, your laptop graphics adapter needs to be able to address each and every one of those 2,304,000 dots uniquely. Otherwise, your monitor ends up "stretching" the signal it gets to make it fit, and that can be ugly, especially where photographs are concerned. The newer the laptop, the more likely it is that the video hardware in it is capable of driving a big screen.

Best wishes,
Click to expand...

You can also drive 1920x1200 with analog VGA. It just might be a tad noisier.

1920x1200 isn't too much of stretch for most video "cards" from the last 3-5 years. Now, driving TWO displays like that will take more VRAM.

My Windows tower with 128M is driving two 1280x1024 LCDs. Doing 2 displays on XP is quirky though. I learned you have to add one at full res - reboot, add the second + dual monitor arrangement, reboot,...and then they work. I never could get it to do the 1920x1200 display and a second at 1280x1024 or 1600x1400 but that was before I knew about the need to try, try, again.

My Macbook Pro with 128MB drives that Dell at 1920x1280 and the native 1400x900 display.
 
mikea said:
You can also drive 1920x1200 with analog VGA. It just might be a tad noisier.

1920x1200 isn't too much of stretch for most video "cards" from the last 3-5 years. Now, driving TWO displays like that will take more VRAM
Click to expand...

Absolutely. But many many notebooks don't have internal adapters that can do this, unless they are Apples or are recent (2 years) windows books, as the whole widescreen format is a recent development for windows-based notebooks.
 
Hi everyone

I also posted my question on a photo website and let me tell you, I got a whole bunch of advice about things I didn't even know existed. I think photographers are closet computer nerds.

At any rate, my laptop is a Toshiba Satellite M45 with Intel Pentium M processor 750 (1.86 GHZ), 1024MB DDR SDRAM, 100 GB (5400 RPM) HDD, 15.4" WXGA display, DVD SuperMulti Double Layer Drive, 802.11 b.g wireless etc. (I never took the stickers off it...)

Thank you for all the advice!
 
If it has a native widescreen display, then I'll BET it will drive a bigger monitor. Take the laptop to the store, and make them demo the monitor plugged into your laptop.
 
Yes, your laptop will drive the big displays but there may be a lag on some very large files displaying properly. The two most important specs to look for are contrast and pixel pitch. These numbers will usually be found in the pdf file of the detailed specs. Brightness is also important and higher is better, but not at the expense of lower contrast.

Pixel pitch refers to the size of the light element that is displayed. Smaller is better, and the range is about .300 to .250mm. Again, smaller is better. Contrast is a challenge for any monitor, but LCD does pretty well at it. Somewhere around 800:1 ratio is about the minimum. Higher is better.

You might find the prices a bit breath-taking for the big brand name graphics monitors. Making that monolithic display with tiny pixels and no defects is tough.
 
woodstock said:
Hi everyone...

I also posted my question on a photo website and let me tell you, I got a whole bunch of advice about things I didn't even know existed. I think photographers are closet computer nerds.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm not a computer geek but let's talk about light. Here's some things to think about from an artist viewpoint:

First, LCD's do not have true "black". If you do black and white and want to photo-edit on a screen it may not print-out exactly the same contrast range.

LCDs also lack the brightness to punch past bright rooms so if you do your editing in a bright room it could be an issue.

Off-axis viewing degrades quickly. While they do not induce off-axis distortion, they definitely induce contrast and color shifts at relatively modest off-axis angles. If you plan only photo-editing, then off-axis viewing is not so important. But, if you want to show off your photography to others you need to consider your guest's viewing angle.

While we are on the subject of viewing angle, digital screens of all types will pixelate when viewed from too close a distance, losing some of the advantage of higher resolution. The main reason for large LCD's is to allow viewing from farther away. This means more folks can view from shallow off-axis angles.

These effects are subtle but real. They exist because LCDs must be back-lit by a single bulb. Plasmas and CRT's light up or turn off individual phosphors. If you can go to store and watch plasmas side by side with LCDs you will notice the difference.

While LCDs are much better these days, tubes and plasmas still outperform LCDs for visual quality. I recently tried a brand new (two months ago) Dell 15 inch monitor for my desk. It looked unnaturally contrasty, very fine lines pixelated when off vertical or horizontal, and there was a subtle but distinct color shift towards yellow (I've noticed this on many LCDs but then I have high color vision acuity). I went back to my flat screen CRT until it dies. I don't entertain clients at my desk therefor the bulky monitor is not an issue. I do spend many many hours in word processing, reading, and viewing graphics. The CRT is much easier on the nerves.

$0.02 worth of rambling thought.
 
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I shoot about 2-5,000 images a month and process them on a Dell 2407FPW LCD monitor hooked up to a Dell Precision 390 workstation. I also have a cheaper HP laptop that's relatively new.

As for laptop age: my 5 year old monster of a laptop with a DVI port drives the same 2407 monitor with no issues at full resolution. No flicker either, which I actually expected. It's running a 128Mb video card, though.

Newer LCDs can get really close to true blacks. Eizo puts out very high quality LCD monitors used by big studios and design companies. They're expensive but a graphic designer I spoke with mentioned he's finally willing to trade his 21" CRT for an Eizo.

The Dells come pretty close. Most people won't notice the difference. And the part that brings a LCD even closer is calibration. Using a Spyder2 Pro, I calibrate my monitor monthly. This brings the gamma and black points to as close to "real" as you'll find from a monitor. I'm about to upgrade to the newer Spyder3, which does it faster and has better color profiles from what I've heard.

The issue with laptops driving external monitors is that you typically cannot calibrate a laptop unless certain video cards are used. And you can never calibrate both a laptop LCD and an external LCD to match. You typically have to pick one of the two to calibrate and leave the other on that profile.

You can spec these things to death. Beth, if you want the 2405, get it. It won't hurt what you're doing in the least. The Acer seems okay for what you're doing as well. Not a powerhouse but fast and loaded enough to run most graphic apps that you're using today.
 
Brian Austin said:
Newer LCDs can get really close to true blacks. And the part that brings a LCD even closer is calibration. Using a Spyder2 Pro, I calibrate my monitor monthly. This brings the gamma and black points to as close to "real" as you'll find from a monitor. I'm about to upgrade to the newer Spyder3, which does it faster and has better color profiles from what I've heard.
Click to expand...

Why don't they (manufactures) mention you can do this? (I know-the sheeple are too lazy to bother). Thanks for the info, Brian.

Brian Austin said:
You can spec these things to death. Beth, if you want the 2405, get it. It won't hurt what you're doing in the least.
Click to expand...

True that. :yes:
 
Dart said:
Why don't they (manufactures) mention you can do this? (I know-the sheeple are too lazy to bother). Thanks for the info, Brian.
Click to expand...

Most people wouldn't notice or bother. It's not terribly expensive when compared to photography equipment (never bring that up with my wife) but for someone who just blew $1,500 on a nice computer & monitor, the extra $100+ might be a bit of a stretch.

Calibration system prices are coming down, though. And now they are marketing the Spyder for televisions, too. With HD and the clarity on newer sets, I can see why some people would notice a difference now.

And it really depends on the monitor and video card combination. The Dell 24" monitors can be calibrated because they have RGB and gamma adjustments available. Some monitors cannot be calibrated, especially cheaper bargain LCDs. On some of those, you can bypass it by using the video card controls to set RGB & gamma.

You're welcome. :)
 
Dart and Brian, thanks. I guess this is going to take more research. The only reason I'm even considering this is because I saw my friend's monitor (Samsung, 400 bucks) and was blown away - especially compared to my laptop (which is just about full...). I don't even have Photoshop loaded on the laptop, and it's nearly full.
 
I tend to agree about the "true black" issue, but on the other hand, LCD blacks are getting better, and with a little tweaking- reduce "brightness", (which is basically just increases black level), bump up contrast, etc... they can do well, if not to lab reference standards or pro photography standards.

I install pro and "prosumer" LCDs often, some of them quite large, and although I am totally in love with the blacks on any really good CRT,and like some plasmas, I think LCDs can hold their own nowadays with, at least, plasmas.

Elizabeth: definitely research this thoroughly; running an external monitor off a laptop is not always so cut-and-dried.

In addition to supported resolutions ("Native" res. for the display being your target), you need to also consider refresh rates (frequency) for best results. It's a good bet that your laptop will support at least the lower frequency range of any given new LCD, but like the resolution, there's a refresh freq. "sweet spot" for any display.
 
woodstock said:
Dart and Brian, thanks. I guess this is going to take more research. The only reason I'm even considering this is because I saw my friend's monitor (Samsung, 400 bucks) and was blown away - especially compared to my laptop (which is just about full...). I don't even have Photoshop loaded on the laptop, and it's nearly full.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't run Photoshop CS3 on that laptop unless I wanted an exercise in patience. It WILL run...just slowly. PSCS3 is a VERY resource intensive app and it will suck up memory. Double the RAM to 2Gb and you'd be sitting a lot better.

Photoshop Elements would work almost as nicely (a few things you can't do compared to CS3 but honestly, they're getting pretty close in capabilities now) and require less load.

Samsung has a nice line of LCD monitors. They actually get pretty good contrast and blacks out of their higher end models.

For "true" photo editing and higher performance image management, I don't recommend laptops. I use a laptop for field work and extensive travel but mainly to catalog, do light editing, and serve as a communication tool. Once back at home, I transfer the images back to my workstation to add to my image management system (Lightroom) and do final edits. Much faster and easier, especially using a Wacom Intuos3 graphics tablet and customized keyboard with shortcuts.
 
Thanks RD. I'm pretty sure that if I do get the whiz bang monitor, it's going to be with a new computer. I realize I may be rationalizing spending all this money when in the end the laptop still works just fine (and now, I have two laptops...) but photography is becoming a more serious hobby for me and my laptop is reaching its upper limit now.

BA, would you humor me if I sent you some samples of what I'm looking at? (or if you have specs on what you'd build if you were doing it now, that would be cool!)
 
woodstock said:
BA, would you humor me if I sent you some samples of what I'm looking at? (or if you have specs on what you'd build if you were doing it now, that would be cool!)
Click to expand...

Have I ever said no to you? :p

Give me a budget to start with. I don't build any longer since HP, Dell, and the rest tend to do it cheaper with similar components.
 
Some advice regarding building or customizing a new computer:

Over-spec. Spend a little more on processing speed and storage (and quality of storage drives). Get more than you need; it'll be worth it.

Upgrading later usually costs more in the long run than spending $100 more on that better CPU or power supply.
 
Cute story. When I bought my last laptop at Fry's the pimple faced kid was droning on and on about specs, and he said 'you really should get the Turion 64 bit so your apps will run faster'. I couldn't hold back. Me; "Hey, that's great so the XP OS that's installed has been modified for 64 bit,wow. and all my MS Office, and IE, and Photoshop, and everything else will run double speed because of the 64 bit proc. that's great". Then I stared at him for a three-count.

'Uhhhhhhh....'
 
Just to revive this thread - I did get the monitor I was looking at (Samsung 24 inch, high res too) but still haven't figured out which desktop (to add to the TWO laptops...).

For the short term I am just going to figure out how to hook up the laptop to the big monitor and use that as a work station. The cords it came with do not fit the laptop though. Is there a specific name for the cord that will actually fit both laptop and monitor? Do I have to take my laptop in and show the sales guy, or is this common enough that they can just hand me a cord that fits?
 
Your laptop probably has an analog VGA interface.
Your Monitor probably has a digital DVI interface cable.

If your monitor has a port that looks like the port on your laptop (little connector with 15 holes), then you just need a male-male VGA cable.

There are also adapters. Can you give me the make/model of the monitor again?
 
woodstock said:
Just to revive this thread - I did get the monitor I was looking at (Samsung 24 inch, high res too) but still haven't figured out which desktop (to add to the TWO laptops...).

For the short term I am just going to figure out how to hook up the laptop to the big monitor and use that as a work station. The cords it came with do not fit the laptop though. Is there a specific name for the cord that will actually fit both laptop and monitor? Do I have to take my laptop in and show the sales guy, or is this common enough that they can just hand me a cord that fits?
Click to expand...

The Samsung is GRET choice. They actually make the LCD displays in the Dells like the one I have.

There is only analog (VGA) and digital (DVI.) You should have both cords packed with the monitor.

VGA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vga
DVI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

Just count pins. VGA is 15 pins. DVI is a bunch more pins in a connector that looks like a miniature cheese grater. See the pictures on the links above.

You can get an adapter to connect from VGA<-->DVI but your monitor HAS to have both inputs on it. The monitor or the laptop may have the adapter in teh box. What model is it?
 
woodstock said:
oh wow, the price just went down. I paid 399 for it..
Click to expand...

A common situation with computer "stuff". :p

I've got both the digital and analog cables connected to my Samsung monitor. The digital cable goes to the computer it is used with, and the analog cable is available if I want to connect a laptop to it temporarily. That's the plan, anyway. Never carried out in the year and a half it's been in place.

Those Samsung monitors are nice, aren't they.
 
Thanks Ghery!

Hey, doesn't anyone have anything to say about the photo I added to my signature?
 
OK, the joke is that is Steven Spielberg - but at a wax museum. Yes, that was me about 8 years ago. Melanie Griffith???!! I've heard "Meg Ryan" many a time (mostly when I was younger) but never Melanie G.

When I got back from this particular trip and showed that photo around, I fooled a lot of people. haha
 
woodstock said:
OK, the joke is that is Steven Spielberg - but at a wax museum. Yes, that was me about 8 years ago. Melanie Griffith???!! I've heard "Meg Ryan" many a time (mostly when I was younger) but never Melanie G.

When I got back from this particular trip and showed that photo around, I fooled a lot of people. haha
Click to expand...

Nope, with that smile, definitely melanie griffith in her hot "Working Girl" period (but fortunately you don't have the 80's hair).

Make no mistake, it was a compliment.
 
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