Complex tail wheel?

A

airheadpenguin

Pre-takeoff checklist
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airheadpenguin
I'm thinking of getting my TW, but would also like to build complex time if possible. Are there any complex TW aircraft that would make sense as a trainer?

This excludes some of the fan favorites like the DC-3 and Beech 18 right off the bat
 
airheadpenguin said:
I'm thinking of getting my TW, but would also like to build complex time if possible. Are there any complex TW aircraft that would make sense as a trainer?

This excludes some of the fan favorites like the DC-3 and Beech 18 right off the bat
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Well, they used the T-6 Texan as a trainer back in WWII. Not sure it would "make sense" as a trainer today, though!
 
Bellanca 14-17-2. You can get them for free - or thereabouts.
 
Why would the aircraft that you get your complex in, have to be a tailwheel? or vice versa/
 
Neil Rubin said:
Well, they used the T-6 Texan as a trainer back in WWII. Not sure it would "make sense" as a trainer today, though!
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Wouldn't be the cheapest way to get the endorsements that's for sure. The T-6/SNJ is a great trainer, but was designed as an advanced trainer. Never intended to be entry level.

A Globe Swift might do.

If you really wanted to kill a bunch of birds with one stone, you could try an RC-3 SeaBee....get your TW, Complex and HP with a seaplane rating.
 
Beaver on anphibs, at Kenmore Air Harbor at $350.00 per hour.
 
I was thinking the same as the OP a couple years back. The Globe Swift was the only viable option I found. In the end it was simpler to buy a retract and have access to a taildragger.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Wouldn't be the cheapest way to get the endorsements that's for sure. The T-6/SNJ is a great trainer, but was designed as an advanced trainer. Never intended to be entry level.

A Globe Swift might do.

If you really wanted to kill a bunch of birds with one stone, you could try an RC-3 SeaBee....get your TW, Complex and HP with a seaplane rating.
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Or get a Twin Seabee and get your multi rating too.

And if someone offered a turbine conversion... ;-)
 
First one that came to my mind was Globe Swift, but good luck finding one you can rent or borrow in which to build time. Willing to buy one? Or perhaps buy into one in a shared ownership arrangement?
 
Ron Levy said:
First one that came to my mind was Globe Swift, but good luck finding one you can rent or borrow in which to build time. Willing to buy one? Or perhaps buy into one in a shared ownership arrangement?
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You bring up a good point, how does the FAA differentiate renting from borrowing?
 
airheadpenguin said:
You bring up a good point, how does the FAA differentiate renting from borrowing?
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They don't -- they have no interest in whether either one is happening, so they don't care which it is. It's only when you're giving flight training for hire in the airplane you provide that they begin to get interested.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Wouldn't be the cheapest way to get the endorsements that's for sure. The T-6/SNJ is a great trainer, but was designed as an advanced trainer. Never intended to be entry level.

A Globe Swift might do.

If you really wanted to kill a bunch of birds with one stone, you could try an RC-3 SeaBee....get your TW, Complex and HP with a seaplane rating.
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And you could get your A&P while you're at it. Someone's got to maintain that leaky old boat. :rofl:
 
The best choice out there would be a Micco. They're fully certified, aerobatic and were built about 15 years ago. There's always 1 or 2 listed for sale. Another option would be the Classic Beech Staggerwing.

The easiest thing would be to buy into partnerships in a Citabria and old Bonanza or Comanche.
 
Ron Levy said:
but good luck finding one you can rent or borrow in which to build time.
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That there is the real issue unless you're looking to buy. I say buy a Yak 52TW and throw in some serious aerobatic training too. :)
 
Dead Stick said:
And you could get your A&P while you're at it. Someone's got to maintain that leaky old boat. :rofl:
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The leaks go away after you have the hull sprayed with truck bed liner.
 
Go the at 6 route,you'll look cool and be burning money like crazy.
 
Whether you're talking a Swift, or a Micco, or a T-6, or any of the other complex TW planes listed, you ain't gonna find one for rent at the local FBO, and you are very unlikely to get the private owner of one to let you borrow it. These are really only options if you're willing to buy.
 
Bill Jennings said:
The Swift is retract, but does it have CS prop? I can't recall.
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Globe Swift, the most modified aircraft in the fleet. some do some don't, they came from the factory with out..
 
BTW, a BE-18 wouldn't be a bad trainer, I actually got some time in them towards my PP, taxiing is the only real difficulty.
 
Ron Levy said:
Whether you're talking a Swift, or a Micco, or a T-6, or any of the other complex TW planes listed, you ain't gonna find one for rent at the local FBO, and you are very unlikely to get the private owner of one to let you borrow it. These are really only options if you're willing to buy.
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The 2 Swift owner I know think of them as their wives/kids.
 
Henning said:
Depends, stock ones I think not, but many have upgrade engines and CS props.
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The Swift was my first thought, followed by the Staggerwing. But Ron's right, you're not going to find any of these types available for rent - You'd have to buy.

The Swift came from the factory with an 85hp (GC-1A) or later 125hp (GC-1B) engine. I believe most had a fixed-pitch prop, but the Aeromatic (2-pitch) was an option.

However, various Swifts have had 85, 125, 145, 150, 160, 170, 180, 200, 210, and 220hp engines hung on the front of them, some with c/s props as well. Quite a few out there like this, and probably the easiest plane to find available that fits the OP's requirements. There's a list for sale here: http://saginawwings.com/swift-market-place/swift-market-place.htm
 
Bill Jennings said:
The Swift is retract, but does it have CS prop? I can't recall.
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Not required. Complex airplane means an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller. The Globe GC-1 Swift was built with a Beech-Roby Controllable Propeller, electrically controlled variable pitch but not constant speed.

Beech-R-203-102-Dia-E_lg3.jpg
 
roncachamp said:
Not required. Complex airplane means an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller. The Globe GC-1 Swift was built with a Beech-Roby Controllable Propeller, electrically controlled variable pitch but not constant speed.
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True, but while many now have constant speed props, I've never seen or heard of one that still has the Beech controllable pitch prop, as they're about impossible to maintain these days - Those that aren't constant speed are fixed pitch now.
 
Ron Levy said:
Whether you're talking a Swift, or a Micco, or a T-6, or any of the oth complexendorsemen TW planes listed, you ain't gonna find one for rent at the local FBO, and you are very unlikely to get the private owner of one to let you borrow it. These are really only options if you're willing to buy.
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I actually know a guy who has expressed some willingness to lend me his Micco for my tailwheel endorsement. That being said, I'll likely decline his offer out of fear of breaking his rare and expensive toy.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Wouldn't be the cheapest way to get the endorsements that's for sure. The T-6/SNJ is a great trainer, but was designed as an advanced trainer. Never intended to be entry level.

Actually in the late 40's they used the T-6/SNJ as a primary trainer. One of my instructors was a Navy pilot and the first airplane he flew was the SNJ. The T-6/SNJ is another airplane you hear horror stories about from mostly pilots that have never flown one. I had about 100hrs tailwheel when I got mine. Got a 10 hour check out with a great instructor and flew it for 8 years without a mishap. Great airplane if you can afford the fuel nowdays. Don
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Tom-D said:
Globe Swift, the most modified aircraft in the fleet. some do some don't, they came from the factory with out..
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I can't say for sure, but I think the majority of them now have either a 180 or 210HP lyc/conti 360 with C/Sprop

You're right about most modifications in the fleet.
 
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