Company Might Paying for IR - Help

[CC268]

So...I have a decent shot of my employer paying for my IR, which is pretty cool. I've already got the approval of the Engineering VP and I have talked extensively with the lead Test Pilot over this flight training program. He has urged me to apply (which I just did this morning).

Essentially you have up to $13,500 - you are reimbursed for 90% of your expenses and 10% you are responsible. Only stipulation is you have to work for the company for 2 years from the day of last reimbursement. Seems like a decent deal. I am not responsible to pay back if I am laid off.

Now I haven't been accepted into the program yet, but it is looking promising. But nothing is set in stone yet. As many of you know I am really considering making flying a career - my goal is knock out the ratings to CFI as quickly as I can financially do so. If I get this funding it will be a huge help.

So here are my two options (as of now):

1. Use an independent CFI (I have a specific instructor I would use who has over 6,000 hrs instruction and really specializes in the instrument rating) and my Cherokee 140 /U.

2. Go to the flight school (Part 61 flight school) I got my PPL at where I would likely do the majority of the IR in a 172N, standard 6 pack with a Garmin 430 WAAS. Here is the thing, I could also fly their Arrow and get my 10 hours complex for the Commercial. I could also fly a brand new SR22 and get my high performance endorsement as well. Down side is the instructors there are younger and don't have 6000 hrs of instruction. Does this mean they are bad instructors? No way. This seems like the way to go to me. I would essentially be killing multiple birds with one stone and on someone else's dime.

Now some of you might ask - well couldn't you use the independent CFI (with 6000+ hrs instruction) and just rent different planes from flight schools? Well...that might be a possibility, but I think my employer is iffy about it due to liability/insurance reasons. This program is really setup for flight schools. But...this might be a possibility and may be my best option if it can be done.

So what do you guys think? I am thinking #2 is the best option at this point assuming I can't use the independent CFI and rent different airplanes.

Thanks.

 

[Ted]

If your company is willing to pay for it and you're willing to commit to another 2 years at the company in exchange for it, then to me that makes #2 a no-brainer. Keep in mind that even if you do that, you can still keep on doing flying things on the side. Building a flying career usually takes time, and if you don't even have your IR you're a ways away in general.

To me, #2 makes more sense.

 

[PilotRPI]

If they are paying 13k, I vote for time in an arrow and cirrus just to mix it up a bit. Then finish up in your cherokee since that is the plane you will be flying. Im working on my IFR with just a GS and a LOC. Challenging but fun.

 

[CC268]

If your company is willing to pay for it and you're willing to commit to another 2 years at the company in exchange for it, then to me that makes #2 a no-brainer. Keep in mind that even if you do that, you can still keep on doing flying things on the side. Building a flying career usually takes time, and if you don't even have your IR you're a ways away in general.

To me, #2 makes more sense.

Exactly my thoughts. It will take me at least 2 years to get to my CFI anyways (not because I couldn't do it quicker, but because I only have so much money lol)

 

[AggieMike88]

Can you get a draft copy of this "tuition for time" program for you to read?

One area I'm curious about is what happens of employment is terminated before the 2 years is over. Is the debt forgiven? Or do you owe it all back all at once?

Another area of curiosity is how will this be documented on your IRS related info and how it affects taxes.

And read it thoroughly for any other suspicious gotchas.

Finally, if they are happy enough with you to offer this one time benefit, would they be happy enough with you to exchange this for a ongoing merit raise in pay in stead of the one time?

 

[CC268]

If they are paying 13k, I vote for time in an arrow and cirrus just to mix it up a bit. Then finish up in your cherokee since that is the plane you will be flying. Im working on my IFR with just a GS and a LOC. Challenging but fun.

Here is the thing about doing it in my Cherokee...I can do that...I am not opposed to it. But I am limited to the approaches I can do around here. Almost all of them are GPS now.

 

[CC268]

Can you get a draft copy of this "tuition for time" program for you to read?

One area I'm curious about is what happens of employment is terminated before the 2 years is over. Is the debt forgiven? Or do you owe it all back all at once?

Another area of curiosity is how will this be documented on your IRS related info and how it affects taxes.

And read it thoroughly for any other suspicious gotchas.

Finally, if they are happy enough with you to offer this one time benefit, would they be happy enough with you to exchange this for a ongoing merit raise in pay in stead of the one time?

Lol...of course I have read it. There are no gotchas and I have talked to multiple people who are currently using this program. If you read my OP I stated that I am NOT required to pay them back if I am laid off. If I get fired for "cause" or leave before the 2 years I am responsible to pay them back. No idea about taxes. I am not sure what your last question means? They simple reimburse you each pay period for your flight training expenses. I am getting a promotion to Engineer II as we speak as well.

In all due respect, this thread is not about the details of the funding between my employer and I. This is about my flight training options. Let's keep it on topic please. The program is very straight forward and simple.

 

[Ted]

Finally, if they are happy enough with you to offer this one time benefit, would they be happy enough with you to exchange this for a ongoing merit raise in pay in stead of the one time?

Typically not. Benefits like that exist because they want to get employees that have certain skill sets in house, either because they can be useful to the company or because they think those skills/experiences will help in their day-to-day work. Just paying you more won't give you the knowledge that comes with an instrument rating.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Personally, I'd go with option #1, with some time spent in the rental outfit's GPS-equipped birds mixed in. I'd train in your aircraft, as it's going to be the one you'll be flying in after the IR is done. Maybe you upgrade the panel to include a GPS if you so desire after training is done. Using your own instructor ensures you get customized training to suit your style/needs, instead of the flight school version. 10 hours of complex/HP time is pretty insignificant in terms of cost, so I'd have that as the least important of the group. If you are using your own aircraft, you could "charge" whatever the equivalent 172N rental rate is and possibly make a little money (which could help pay for a GPS upgrade).

 

[CC268]

Personally, I'd go with option #1, with some time spent in the rental outfit's GPS-equipped birds mixed in. I'd train in your aircraft, as it's going to be the one you'll be flying in after the IR is done. Maybe you upgrade the panel to include a GPS if you so desire after training is done. Using your own instructor ensures you get customized training to suit your style/needs, instead of the flight school version. 10 hours of complex/HP time is pretty insignificant in terms of cost, so I'd have that as the least important of the group. If you are using your own aircraft, you could "charge" whatever the equivalent 172N rental rate is and possibly make a little money (which could help pay for a GPS upgrade).

Hmm...idk...my opinion is I could easily get some IR training in my Cherokee after getting the rating to ensure my proficiency in the Cherokee. As stated earlier, I can use my Cherokee but I will be very limited around here unless I have the GPS. I have to fly down to Casa Grande to even do practice approaches because everything around here is GPS based now (I think Mesa Gateway might be an option too).

I cannot charge a rental rate for my Cherokee - that's a big no no. I can only charge the company for my direct operating cost (which is basically fuel).

Not saying I may not go the Cherokee route...but seems like I am leaving a lot on the table.

 

[CC268]

Typically not. Benefits like that exist because they want to get employees that have certain skill sets in house, either because they can be useful to the company or because they think those skills/experiences will help in their day-to-day work. Just paying you more won't give you the knowledge that comes with an instrument rating.

This is exactly right.

 

[TCABM]

Whichever option makes you more valuable to your employer is the way I'd go.

 

[Clip4]

So...I have a decent shot of my employer paying for my IR, which is pretty cool. I've already got the approval of the Engineering VP and I have talked extensively with the lead Test Pilot over this flight training program. He has urged me to apply (which I just did this morning).

Essentially you have up to $13,500 - you are reimbursed for 90% of your expenses and 10% you are responsible. Only stipulation is you have to work for the company for 2 years from the day of last reimbursement. Seems like a decent deal. I am not responsible to pay back if I am laid off.

Now I haven't been accepted into the program yet, but it is looking promising. But nothing is set in stone yet. As many of you know I am really considering making flying a career - my goal is knock out the ratings to CFI as quickly as I can financially do so. If I get this funding it will be a huge help.

So here are my two options (as of now):

1. Use an independent CFI (I have a specific instructor I would use who has over 6,000 hrs instruction and really specializes in the instrument rating) and my Cherokee 140 /U.

2. Go to the flight school (Part 61 flight school) I got my PPL at where I would likely do the majority of the IR in a 172N, standard 6 pack with a Garmin 430 WAAS. Here is the thing, I could also fly their Arrow and get my 10 hours complex for the Commercial. I could also fly a brand new SR22 and get my high performance endorsement as well. Down side is the instructors there are younger and don't have 6000 hrs of instruction. Does this mean they are bad instructors? No way. This seems like the way to go to me. I would essentially be killing multiple birds with one stone and on someone else's dime.

Now some of you might ask - well couldn't you use the independent CFI (with 6000+ hrs instruction) and just rent different planes from flight schools? Well...that might be a possibility, but I think my employer is iffy about it due to liability/insurance reasons. This program is really setup for flight schools. But...this might be a possibility and may be my best option if it can be done.

So what do you guys think? I am thinking #2 is the best option at this point assuming I can't use the independent CFI and rent different airplanes.

Thanks.

There is zero reason to fly a Cirrus to get a HP endorsement. The benefit of the Cirrus would be the EFD and autopilot experiance. If your budget allowed, I would do all the training in an Arrow and try to get 10 hours in the Cirrus.

Do not skimp on ground school.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I'd go with the 172, maybe with some HP or complex
time thrown in to enhance your instrument training experience. You can always get he 6000-hr CFII to give you some dual in your airplane along the way or later on.

Knowing the airplane cold that you'll be taking the checkride in is important, but a little exposure to flying/managing other models would be very beneficial as well.

 

[CC268]

I'd go with the 172, maybe with some HP or complex
time thrown in to enhance your instrument training experience. You can always get he 6000-hr CFII to give you some dual in your airplane along the way or later on.

Knowing the airplane cold that you'll be taking the checkride in is important, but a little exposure to flying/managing other models would be very beneficial as well.

My thoughts as well - thanks for the feedback

 

[CC268]

There is zero reason to fly a Cirrus to get a HP endorsement. The benefit of the Cirrus would be the EFD and autopilot experiance. If your budget allowed, I would do all the training in an Arrow and try to get 10 hours in the Cirrus.

Do not skimp on ground school.

Wait you say to not fly the Cirrus for the HP endorsement and then you say get 10 hours in the Cirrus? I'm confused.

I took Kind Schools and passed the IR written with a 93%.

 

[PilotRPI]

Yeah, not always easy to find a required vor, ils, and loc approach without a gps. Luckily i have those not terribly far away. Home airport is gps only.

 

[Velocity173]

Outside of the military, I've never heard of an employer paying for flight training. I'd say go for it with any of the options.

 

[Ravioli]

Don't use your airplane OR your instructor.

Treat it like you would any other tuition reimbursement, for like an MBA or whatever. Much less likely to get confusing.

Also, you can do a "quickie" and your conscription period ends sooner. Don't do anything to extend the length of training.

One other thing... ask if you can get 2 weeks paid leave to go do it, or even 2 weeks Leave Without Pay. Worst case, burn some vacation.

Oh, and send me an application! I need someone to pay for me to finish up my IR

 

[CC268]

Don't use your airplane OR your instructor.

Treat it like you would any other tuition reimbursement, for like an MBA or whatever. Much less likely to get confusing.

Also, you can do a "quickie" and your conscription period ends sooner. Don't do anything to extend the length of training.

One other thing... ask if you can get 2 weeks paid leave to go do it, or even 2 weeks Leave Without Pay. Worst case, burn some vacation.

Oh, and send me an application! I need someone to pay for me to finish up my IR

Yea I think you kind of hit the nail on the head to be honest. Especially regarding the confusion aspect. If they decide to pay for it I will probably train 4-5 days a week and get it done quick. Certainly before the end of the year. Haha that would be nice!

 

[CC268]

Outside of the military, I've never heard of an employer paying for flight training. I'd say go for it with any of the options.

I am actually a bit mad at myself as they would likely have paid for my PPL as well, but I didn't even bother to apply for the program as I thought it would be unlikely to get the funding (they will only pay for PPL and IR, they won't pay for Commercial, etc). However, you have to work for them for at least a year before they do this so I would have had to of waited to start my PPL.

That said, I haven't been accepted yet, so we will see what happens. I should know in the next few weeks if I am accepted or not.

 

[Clip4]

Wait you say to not fly the Cirrus for the HP endorsement and then you say get 10 hours in the Cirrus? I'm confused.

I took Kind Schools and passed the IR written with a 93%.

The best reason to fly the Cirrus is the experiance with the EFD and integrated autopilot. What I am saying is direct your efforts toward learning advanced aircraft systems not flying the Cirrus with the goal of getting a HP endorsement. If you just want an HP, you can do that for a whole lot less in another aircraft. Is the school you are referencing a Cirrus Training Center? If it is, there are top notch instructors there.

The King school prepared you to pass a written test.

 

[CC268]

The best reason to fly the Cirrus is the experiance with the EFD and integrated autopilot. What I am saying is direct your efforts toward learning advanced aircraft systems not flying the Cirrus with the goal of getting a HP endorsement. If you just want an HP, you can do that for a whole lot less in another aircraft. Is the school you are referencing a Cirrus Training Center? If it is, there are top notch instructors there.

The King school prepared you to pass a written test.

Yes in fact they are the only Platinum Cirrus Training Center in Arizona. Understood...but who cares...it isn't on my dime - doesn't matter what I do the HP endorsement in. But I understand your point otherwise.

 

[Clip4]

Yes in fact they are the only Platinum Cirrus Training Center in Arizona. Understood...but who cares...it isn't on my dime - doesn't matter what I do the HP endorsement in. But I understand your point otherwise.

You might want to do the math on doing the first 10 hours in the Arrow, and the rest in a Cirrus.

 

[CC268]

You might want to do the math on doing the first 10 hours in the Arrow, and the rest in a Cirrus.

Thing is I think I'd rather do the majority of the IR in the 172N...learn on steam gauges and not on glass panel. I have always heard it is easier to transfer from steam gauges to glass panel than glass panel to steam gauges...but maybe that is an old wives tale.

 

[Clip4]

Thing is I think I'd rather do the majority of the IR in the 172N...learn on steam gauges and not on glass panel. I have always heard it is easier to transfer from steam gauges to glass panel than glass panel to steam gauges...but maybe that is an old wives tale.

The thing is you own a plane with steam gauges and after getting the rating all you need is a safety pilot to make the shift. Also it is one heck of a lot easier to transition IFR from a fast plane to a slow plane like a 140.

 

[CC268]

The thing is you own a plane with steam gauges and after getting the rating all you need is a safety pilot to make the shift. Also it is one heck of a lot easier to transition IFR from a fast plane to a slow plane like a 140.

Hmm..interesting perspective. If I get the funding I will have to sit down with the flight school and see what they think

 

[luvflyin]

#2. Ya don't gotta worry about your airplane being down. Ya don't put gettin closer to TBO hours on it. You get more complete training with the GPS. You get experience in different planes. I don't think I'd even consider #1.

 

[CC268]

#2. Ya don't gotta worry about your airplane being down. Ya don't put gettin closer to TBO hours on it. You get more complete training with the GPS. You get experience in different planes. I don't think I'd even consider #1.

I'd have to agree...thanks for the input.

 

[jordane93]

Thing is I think I'd rather do the majority of the IR in the 172N...learn on steam gauges and not on glass panel. I have always heard it is easier to transfer from steam gauges to glass panel than glass panel to steam gauges...but maybe that is an old wives tale.

Train in whatever your plane has. If your plane is /U, do your training in a /U plane. If your plane has a 430 in it, try to find a plane with a 430 in it.

 

[CC268]

Train in whatever your plane has. If your plane is /U, do your training in a /U plane. If your plane has a 430 in it, try to find a plane with a 430 in it.

here is the thing...I'm not saying I won't ever fly IFR with my Cherokee...but lets be real here...it isn't exactly the best IFR platform. Now that isn't to say I can't stay proficient in it. I can certainly go out and shoot approaches with it. But I don't think I should give up the opportunity to fly a /G airplane just because mine is /U. That just doesn't make sense to me when someone else is fitting the bill. I can easily pay for quite a few hours to go up with an instructor in my airplane to become familiar and proficient with it. Also...seriously...I don't know of any /U airplanes that the flight schools around here are offering. Now a days flight schools have /G around here.

 

[jordane93]

here is the thing...I'm not saying I won't ever fly IFR with my Cherokee...but lets be real here...it isn't exactly the best IFR platform. Now that isn't to say I can't stay proficient in it. I can certainly go out and shoot approaches with it. But I don't think I should give up the opportunity to fly a /G airplane just because mine is /U. That just doesn't make sense to me when someone else is fitting the bill. I can easily pay for quite a few hours to go up with an instructor in my airplane to become familiar and proficient with it. Also...seriously...I don't know of any /U airplanes that the flight schools around here are offering. Now a days flight schools have /G around here.

See if your company can front the bill for a GPS install in your plane then