&%$$)!! Companies that use Address Verification

RJM62

RJM62

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Geek on the Hill
rant

I hate companies that use address verification.

This system, apparently designed for imbeciles who don't know where they live, attempts to "correct" the address that a consumer enters onto an online purchase form before the order is submitted by validating it against the Postal Service's records.

Here's the problem, in my case: The village where I live is stuck in the 19th Century. We don't get mail delivered to our homes. Everyone has a PO Box. My legal address is a PO Box. That's the address on my driver's license, my various FAA certificates, my credit union statements, my business certificate, my sales tax collector I.D., and even my voter registration. That -- the PO Box -- is my legal address.

We don't have "street addresses." Yes, we have 911 addresses. No, we cannot receive mail at them. If something is addressed to the 911 address that's being shipped via USPS, the Post Office is technically supposed to return it to the sender (although usually they'll deliver it to the customer's box, unless the customer has annoyed them recently).

Even private carriers like UPS and FedEx deliver their packages to the Post Office. They have some kind of a "last mile" contract with the Postal Service whereby they dump all the packages on the Post Office receiving dock, and the Postal Service takes them from there.

For the private carriers, the Post Office matches the 911 address to the PO Box, because the private carriers are not allowed to deliver packages that are addressed to a PO Box. So the postmaster accepts the package at the receiving dock, matches it with the customer's box, and either leaves a note in the customer's box if a signature is required; or else they leave the package in a giant box in the lobby, and the key to the giant box in the resident's itty-bitty box.

Again, this actually is a nice thing because you don't have to worry about staying home when you expect a package from UPS or FedEx. It'll just be at the Post Office with the rest of your mail. Makes life easy.

Except for one thing.

When placing an order from a company that uses UPS or FedEx, I must use a street address. UPS and FedEx are not allowed to deliver to PO boxes. I don't have a street address. The closest thing I have to a street address is the 911 address, which is not a legal address according to the Postal Service. So if I enter the 911 address, the address will be "corrected" to the PO Box -- which, of course, UPS and FedEx cannot deliver to.

The fact that the Post Office is exactly where the package is going to wind up anyway doesn't matter. UPS and FedEx are not allowed to deliver an item that's addressed to a PO Box. Period.

Some companies (such as Amazon) warn the user that the address was rejected, but allow the user to override the system. Other companies re-assign the shipment to go USPS. Still other companies simply won't accept the order. Sometimes you can call and explain the situation, and a human being can override the system, but other times not. For example, NewEgg simply will not ship to me because the "street" address verifies to a PO Box. I can explain till the cows come home why this is, but they don't care.

The first thing about this that bothers me is that, damn it, I do know where I live. Why do I need a machine to "verify" my address, and why do companies assume that I'm such an idiot that they'll accept that machine's ruling about where I live over my own -- even if it means losing the order?

The other thing that irks me is that the Postal Service explicitly tells shippers that its verification system is designed only for mail and packages that the Postal Service will be carrying. They acknowledge that some addresses may not be legal for Postal purposes, but are perfectly acceptable for other carriers to use. So really, unless a company will be shipping by USPS, they shouldn't even be using the USPS system to verify the address.

/rant

-Rich
 
Almost all address forms now have two address lines...so why not put either the address of the post office on line 1 then your PO box on line 2...or put your 911 address on line 1 and PO box on line 2 and if UPS and FEDEX know what to do with it, it should wind up at the PO box....same thing as getting a private mailbox at a store...you have the physical address then the box #.
 
Shawn said:
Almost all address forms now have two address lines...so why not put either the address of the post office on line 1 then your PO box on line 2...or put your 911 address on line 1 and PO box on line 2 and if UPS and FEDEX know what to do with it, it should wind up at the PO box....same thing as getting a private mailbox at a store...you have the physical address then the box #.
Click to expand...

I do that. The verification system still corrects the 911 address to the PO box, no matter where it appears.

So it comes out:

My Name
PO Box
PO Box
Village, State, ZIP

Again, remember that this system was designed only for USPS, and as far as USPS is concerned, the 911 address doesn't exist. The problem is that merchants are using it for non-USPS shipments.

-Rich
 
Use the address of the post office, and then bribe the post master or post mistress with some of your good cooking to call you when something arrives?
 
AggieMike88 said:
Use the address of the post office, and then bribe the post master or post mistress with some of your good cooking to call you when something arrives?
Click to expand...

That might work, actually. Assuming, of course, that the Post Office actually has a street address...

-Rich
 
Newegg is officially on my **** list right now, and I'll order from pretty much anywhere else before them. Sad it came to that as I used to really like them.

So, in my opinion, no loss if Newegg won't ship.

The story: I ordered a barebones system, a hard drive and a memory stick from them. All arrived on time - but the hard drive was not packaged in anti-static of any kind - it was wrapped in standard bubble wrap and shoved in the box. So it was no real suprise when I plugged it into the very same barebones system they sent and it didn't work. No problem, I think, for the first time I will get to try out Newegg's well-reputed return system.

I package up the drive in the same package as they sent it, spent the $15 to ship it back, and asked for a refund for the defective drive.

A few days later, I get an email from Newegg stating that their techs determined that the SATA port was "damaged" and that no return or refund would be allowed as *I* damaged it and it was therefore out of policy. I sent an immediate note to customer service that reiterated the poor packing & the single attempt to use in the system they sold to me. The response: please demonstrate that the shipping carrier damaged the outside box. No acknowledgement of their poor packing, nor the DOA drive.

They shipped it back to me (in worse packaging). So now I'm out the cost of the drive ($150 - it was an enterprise-level drive) and the cost of shipping. And no real recourse. I have a dead drive. And I won't be shopping at Newegg again if I can possibly avoid it. Sad, because they used to have one of the best reputations around.
 
wsuffa said:
Newegg is officially on my **** list right now, and I'll order from pretty much anywhere else before them. Sad it came to that as I used to really like them.

So, in my opinion, no loss if Newegg won't ship.

The story: I ordered a barebones system, a hard drive and a memory stick from them. All arrived on time - but the hard drive was not packaged in anti-static of any kind - it was wrapped in standard bubble wrap and shoved in the box. So it was no real suprise when I plugged it into the very same barebones system they sent and it didn't work. No problem, I think, for the first time I will get to try out Newegg's well-reputed return system.

I package up the drive in the same package as they sent it, spent the $15 to ship it back, and asked for a refund for the defective drive.

A few days later, I get an email from Newegg stating that their techs determined that the SATA port was "damaged" and that no return or refund would be allowed as *I* damaged it and it was therefore out of policy. I sent an immediate note to customer service that reiterated the poor packing & the single attempt to use in the system they sold to me. The response: please demonstrate that the shipping carrier damaged the outside box. No acknowledgement of their poor packing, nor the DOA drive.

They shipped it back to me (in worse packaging). So now I'm out the cost of the drive ($150 - it was an enterprise-level drive) and the cost of shipping. And no real recourse. I have a dead drive. And I won't be shopping at Newegg again if I can possibly avoid it. Sad, because they used to have one of the best reputations around.
Click to expand...

That would have me calling the CC company to refuse the charges.
 
Dude! The answer is SO simple!!!

Just sell your house, pack up all your stuff, move into some hovel in the big city and get a real address.

See?? Simple!!
 
Bill, your Newegg story reminds me of a Moss Motors story from the '80's. I used to rebuild Triumph cars as a hobby...frame up restorations. Moss specialized in English car parts. I ordered a roll-bar for a TR-6, painted black since i never liked chrome roll-bars.

They stuck a shipping tag on it, no packaging at all and shipped it. The paint was beat to **** when it arrived. When I called them, they told me it was UPS's problem...they accepted it for shipment.

So, I just reprinted it myself and started using Victoria British instead for most things I needed.
 
Last edited:
This sounds more like a peeve to me.
 
EdFred said:
That would have me calling the CC company to refuse the charges.
Click to expand...

That could be an option, but Newegg will challenge that determination. I'll have to see if the credit card insurance will cover.

That doesn't solve the basic problem of Newegg's bad customer service & bad packaging/shipping.
 
wsuffa said:
That could be an option, but Newegg will challenge that determination. I'll have to see if the credit card insurance will cover.

That doesn't solve the basic problem of Newegg's bad customer service & bad packaging/shipping.
Click to expand...

Depending how much I used that card, I would simply give the credit card company the option of stopping the charges, or I would be cancelling, and they can make nothing off me.
 
wsuffa said:
Newegg is officially on my **** list right now, and I'll order from pretty much anywhere else before them. Sad it came to that as I used to really like them.

So, in my opinion, no loss if Newegg won't ship.

The story: I ordered a barebones system, a hard drive and a memory stick from them. All arrived on time - but the hard drive was not packaged in anti-static of any kind - it was wrapped in standard bubble wrap and shoved in the box. So it was no real suprise when I plugged it into the very same barebones system they sent and it didn't work. No problem, I think, for the first time I will get to try out Newegg's well-reputed return system.

I package up the drive in the same package as they sent it, spent the $15 to ship it back, and asked for a refund for the defective drive.

A few days later, I get an email from Newegg stating that their techs determined that the SATA port was "damaged" and that no return or refund would be allowed as *I* damaged it and it was therefore out of policy. I sent an immediate note to customer service that reiterated the poor packing & the single attempt to use in the system they sold to me. The response: please demonstrate that the shipping carrier damaged the outside box. No acknowledgement of their poor packing, nor the DOA drive.

They shipped it back to me (in worse packaging). So now I'm out the cost of the drive ($150 - it was an enterprise-level drive) and the cost of shipping. And no real recourse. I have a dead drive. And I won't be shopping at Newegg again if I can possibly avoid it. Sad, because they used to have one of the best reputations around.
Click to expand...

I haven't had much experience with NewEgg as a customer. I'm an affiliate of theirs and make a few bucks from their ads (very few -- their affiliate program is not very generous), but I don't remember whether or not I've ever actually received an order from them, even when I lived in The City.

I know I tried once, but I think they refused to ship via USPS. I preferred USPS even back then because I made my money on the road, and picking up a missed delivery at the UPS facility in Queens was an absolute nightmare. Banker's hours, nowhere to park, no organization whatsoever... It was a mess. And most of the UPS drivers refused to carry the packages to the deli across the street, which was owned by a friend of mine who would sign for my packages. (FedEx and DHL, on the other hand, were happy to do so. Go figger.)

Using the Postal Service, however, any package addressed to my street address would wind up in my PO box if I wasn't around to receive it. This was thanks to my generous bribes holiday tips to my mailman. If I wasn't home to receive the package, he would just informally redirect it to the PO box, and I'd pick it up later that day or the next morning. But of course, it had to be shipped USPS for that to happen.

As for good sources for geeky stuff, my preferred vendor at the moment is MicroCenter. Their prices are competitive, their return policy is no-nonsense (in my few experiences, anyway), they will happily ship to PO boxes, and even if I select FedEx for expedited shipping, their system doesn't vomit on my address. They also have two stores within a couple hours' drive from me, so if I need a lot of stuff at once, it's worth the drive. I just combine it with a visit to the old 'hood.

-Rich
 
Most companies use address standardization because they get cheaper shipping rates when they do. It works for 99.9999% of the people in the country. I think your frustration is misplaced - the post office is the one in your town gumming up the works
 
SkyHog said:
Most companies use address standardization because they get cheaper shipping rates when they do. It works for 99.9999% of the people in the country. I think your frustration is misplaced - the post office is the one in your town gumming up the works
Click to expand...

This. Honestly why can't they just link your 911 address to the PO box and handle that at the last mile? I guess they kind of do already from your description but make it official.
 
cowman said:
This. Honestly why can't they just link your 911 address to the PO box and handle that at the last mile? I guess they kind of do already from your description but make it official.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's no reason for Address Standardization to correct from a home address to a PO Box. The Post Office should be smart enough to know where the package is going based on the 911 address.
 
I know your pain. I also know the solution. :)

All you need to do, is go to your post office and get the "General Delivery" address. They will know what you're talking about.

When you make an online purchase that requires a physical address, you put in the "General Delivery" Address with your PO Box as {Address 2}, if available as the shipping address. Make sure your billing address is only your PO box, since that is where your statements go.

Normally, you would fill out a permission form with the Post Office to accept mail addressed to you at the General Delivery address, however in your case that is not necessary.

I hope that helps and don't worry, we ship via USPS, so you don't need to worry when you buy your headset from us. :wink2:
 
Why should the post office have responsibility for creating and maintaining an address verification system that meets the needs of other shippers?
 
RJM62 said:
That might work, actually. Assuming, of course, that the Post Office actually has a street address...

-Rich
Click to expand...

When I still lived in CT, the address for our PO was:
Rt 118, Harwinton

((tells you alot, huh?))

BTW, the military/OPM/FBI/OSI doesn't accept POBoxes for address either ---- but last Security Questionairre I filled out was still a dead tree rather than recycled electrons ;)
 
SkyHog said:
Yeah, there's no reason for Address Standardization to correct from a home address to a PO Box. The Post Office should be smart enough to know where the package is going based on the 911 address.
Click to expand...

The Post Office isn't the problem, Nick. Their system is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. It corrects the address for shippers who are using USPS for shipping. My 911 address is not, in fact, a valid shipping address, as far as USPS is concerned; but the system is, in fact, smart enough to know that I live there and to redirect mail to the correct PO Box. That works wonderfully for shippers who use USPS.

The problem only occurs when shippers who use other carriers to make the delivery, nonetheless use the USPS system to verify the address. Other carriers are allowed to deliver to a 911 address if they care to do so. In fact, they sometimes do exactly that if a package is larger or heavier than what the Postmaster thinks the customer in question can carry home in their car.

But as far as the Postal Service is concerned, the 911 address is still invalid, so it corrects it to the PO Box for USPS delivery.

-Rich
 
cowman said:
Honestly why can't they just link your 911 address to the PO box and handle that at the last mile? I guess they kind of do already from your description but make it official.
Click to expand...

Supposedly, there is some Postal regulation that prevents this.


USPS gets persnickity over the smallest of things.
An outfit, formerly MailBoxes, ETC (Now the UPS Store) used to accept "mail" from all different sources -- walk-ins, USPS, UPS, FedEx, Airborne, ... you name it. Then, USPS filed a federal warrant against the company for allowing mail to go through the system and have a "box number" on it, cause it conflicted with USPS copyrights over the use of "box number." They also filed suite against then for infringing on USPS rights of mail delivery.
--------------------
Somehow things got straightened out (after threatening customers with non-delivery, etc [threat from USPS], cause nothing ended up changing and life goes on like nothing happened --- except facility changed names from "MBE to "UPS Store"
 
Archammer said:
I know your pain. I also know the solution. :)

All you need to do, is go to your post office and get the "General Delivery" address. They will know what you're talking about.

When you make an online purchase that requires a physical address, you put in the "General Delivery" Address with your PO Box as {Address 2}, if available as the shipping address. Make sure your billing address is only your PO box, since that is where your statements go.

Normally, you would fill out a permission form with the Post Office to accept mail addressed to you at the General Delivery address, however in your case that is not necessary.

I hope that helps and don't worry, we ship via USPS, so you don't need to worry when you buy your headset from us. :wink2:
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks. I'll try that.

As for the headset, I'm considering building something with wings in the near future (I'm undecided whether it'll be an airplane or a WSC trike), so you may be hearing from me.

-Rich
 
oldShar said:
When I still lived in CT, the address for our PO was:
Rt 118, Harwinton

((tells you alot, huh?))

BTW, the military/OPM/FBI/OSI doesn't accept POBoxes for address either ---- but last Security Questionairre I filled out was still a dead tree rather than recycled electrons ;)
Click to expand...

FAA's not too thrilled with the idea, either. I had to get a note from the Postmaster and draw my location on a map to change my address.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
The Post Office isn't the problem, Nick. Their system is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. It corrects the address for shippers who are using USPS for shipping. My 911 address is not, in fact, a valid shipping address, as far as USPS is concerned; but the system is, in fact, smart enough to know that I live there and to redirect mail to the correct PO Box. That works wonderfully for shippers who use USPS.

The problem only occurs when shippers who use other carriers to make the delivery, nonetheless use the USPS system to verify the address. Other carriers are allowed to deliver to a 911 address if they care to do so. In fact, they sometimes do exactly that if a package is larger or heavier than what the Postmaster thinks the customer in question can carry home in their car.

But as far as the Postal Service is concerned, the 911 address is still invalid, so it corrects it to the PO Box for USPS delivery.

-Rich
Click to expand...

What I'm saying though, is that for 99.99999% (i'll add more nines too, because its that prevalent) of addresses in the United States, the physical address of the property is where mail and packages are delivered to. Because the USPS is lazy and doesn't offer home delivery service to your house, the shipping system doesn't work for you and the 25 other people affected.

Its the USPS's fault - rather than auto-correcting 123 Pine street to PO Box 123 through the Standardization Process, it should leave it as 123 Pine St, like it is across the country. Then, they can deliver it to the PO box as they should.

FWIW, I have a central box that my neighborhood uses to get mail. My mailing address is 2505 Richmond Dr, not "Central Neighborhood Center 50, Box 13." If they have the ability to do that, they should have the ability to do the same for those stuck with PO Boxes.

At the end of the day, though, you can't blame the people that ship the packages. It works great for the VAST, vast, vast majority of customers, and they are using a process that the USPS themselves suggest be used to ensure that the address is formatted properly.

Now I'm curious - if I do a GPS search for your address, will it autocorrect to the PO Box as well?
 
SkyHog said:
What I'm saying though, is that for 99.99999% (i'll add more nines too, because its that prevalent) of addresses in the United States, the physical address of the property is where mail and packages are delivered to. Because the USPS is lazy and doesn't offer home delivery service to your house, the shipping system doesn't work for you and the 25 other people affected.

Its the USPS's fault - rather than auto-correcting 123 Pine street to PO Box 123 through the Standardization Process, it should leave it as 123 Pine St, like it is across the country. Then, they can deliver it to the PO box as they should.

FWIW, I have a central box that my neighborhood uses to get mail. My mailing address is 2505 Richmond Dr, not "Central Neighborhood Center 50, Box 13." If they have the ability to do that, they should have the ability to do the same for those stuck with PO Boxes.

At the end of the day, though, you can't blame the people that ship the packages. It works great for the VAST, vast, vast majority of customers, and they are using a process that the USPS themselves suggest be used to ensure that the address is formatted properly.

Now I'm curious - if I do a GPS search for your address, will it autocorrect to the PO Box as well?
Click to expand...

Nope. That will get you right to my driveway.

If you plan on stopping by, let me know. I'll get some steaks to grill.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Nope. That will get you right to my driveway.

If you plan on stopping by, let me know. I'll get some steaks to grill.

-Rich
Click to expand...

I'd have to know the address first :)

I presume its more than a "road trip" to NY from Colorado Springs.
 
SkyHog said:
I'd have to know the address first :)

I presume its more than a "road trip" to NY from Colorado Springs.
Click to expand...

I can send it to you by PM if you're ever in the 'hood. And yeah, it would be a but of a hike from Colorado. :yesnod:

-Rich
 
We, too, have a PO Box and my physical address is Rt 1, Box 167, Marble Hill, MO. Try to find me...double dare ya.
 
Rich, you need a country store that doesn't get mail from a PO Box nearby. ;)

The owner of the country store out here will happily accept packages at the store if he knows one is coming and even sign for stuff if you dare.

Then you stop in for a chat on the way home, buy something from the store, and pick up your package.

He also makes a pretty good pizza.
 
RJM62 said:
Okay, thanks. I'll try that.

As for the headset, I'm considering building something with wings in the near future (I'm undecided whether it'll be an airplane or a WSC trike), so you may be hearing from me.

-Rich
Click to expand...

Sounds good, we'll be here!
 
sorry - I scrolled to the end - does the post office have a street address?

Post Office Street Address
Suite [box number]

end of problem - UPS and Fedex know where to deliver it . . .
 
Can you use the post office's address and enter for your box something like: Suite 123?

So it would look something like this:

Rich the NY Pizza Guy
c/o USPS
123 Main St.
Suite #123
Bad Pizza, NY 012345
 
ScottM said:
Can you use the post office's address and enter for your box something like: Suite 123?

So it would look something like this:

Rich the NY Pizza Guy
c/o USPS
123 Main St.
Suite #123
Bad Pizza, NY 012345
Click to expand...

We actually have a pretty good pizza place a few miles from here. Not as good as Brooklyn pizza, but hey, what is?

As for the address, the Postmaster told me he's going to look into whether the address can be made to validate to the four-line address, thus leaving the 911 address intact.

-Rich
 
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