Commerical XC requirements

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gms5002

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gms5002
I'm trying to inventory what I would need in the way of flight time in order to qualify for a commercial certificate. During my IFR training, my instructor and I took a very long XC in a PA-32R-300: Longest leg ~330 nm, 5.6 hobbs, 3 airports, 3 different types of approaches. It was during the day, but I was under the hood the whole time. My question is can I apply the flight to this commercial requirement:

One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure
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and if so, can I also double count it for this:

One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point.
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Did your instructor log it as pic time for you? If so ,you should be good.
 
That used to be a VFR requirement. They changed it sometime after I got my commercial. You should be good since conditions are no longer specified.

Funny thing when I went for my commercial. I did the same flight during the day for the day portion as I did the night (2 different days, two different flights) and when the DPE looked at it, he was like "really, the same flight?" I said, I got myself to California and back VFR the whole way, I think I'm ok with my VFR skills.
 
frfly172 said:
Did your instructor log it as pic time for you? If so ,you should be good.
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Actually he didn't write in PIC, but I guess I could ask him if he would update my log book since I was sole manipulator of the controls. Seems like if that were the case then I only need the night XC and to learn the maneuvers.
 
gms5002 said:
Actually he didn't write in PIC, but I guess I could ask him if he would update my log book since I was sole manipulator of the controls.
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During your instrument training if you were in VMC but under the hood you could log PIC if you were sole manipulator.
 
gms5002 said:
I'm trying to inventory what I would need in the way of flight time in order to qualify for a commercial certificate. During my IFR training, my instructor and I took a very long XC in a PA-32R-300: Longest leg ~330 nm, 5.6 hobbs, 3 airports, 3 different types of approaches. It was during the day, but I was under the hood the whole time. My question is can I apply the flight to this commercial requirement:



and if so, can I also double count it for this:
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The second requirement is solo, not dual and not with your girlfriend. Solo.
 
BillTIZ said:
The second requirement is solo, not dual and not with your girlfriend. Solo.
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Maybe it used to be, but now it says in 61.129(a)(4)

Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a single engine airplane with an authorized instructor on board
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gms5002 said:
We were VMC but on an IFR fight plan :dunno:
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Sorry I take that back. You can be IFR, VFR, IMC, VMC, and you can still log PIC. Take a look at Ed's flowchart in his signature. While IFR and IMC your instructor is ACTING as PIC and responsible for the safety of the flight but you are sole manipulator in a aircraft you are properly rated for.
 
gms5002 said:
Maybe it used to be, but now it says in 61.129(a)(4)
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That seems like cheating... I remember they did that for people getting their commercial and multi at the same time, because no one would rent a multi to a non rated solo student.
 
BillTIZ said:
That seems like cheating... I remember they did that for people getting their commercial and multi at the same time, because no one would rent a multi to a non rated solo student.
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I did my long commercial xc solo. Why would I want to pay my CFI for something I could easily do on my own.:dunno:
 
So in my log book should I go back to all the flights that I was the only one in the plane and log it as solo or doesn't that matter?

Instrument student on my way to ATP hopefully.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 
jordane93 said:
I did my long commercial xc solo. Why would I want to pay my CFI for something I could easily do on my own.:dunno:
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Same here.. Visited a couple of friends at different airports in SoCal. Lunch with one dinner with the other and then flew back. Why pay a CFI for 6-7 hrs of babysitting.
 
farmerbrake said:
So in my log book should I go back to all the flights that I was the only one in the plane and log it as solo or doesn't that matter?

Instrument student on my way to ATP hopefully.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
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Really only gonna matter for the 10 hours required for the commercial(5 of which are at night with 10 t/o & landings)
 
Just logging it as PIC time isn't sufficient. You must have the instructor log it as "performing the PIC duties."
 
I know. I'm going through it right now. Just started my commercial training, I've got almost 500 hours, and have cross-country time out the yin-yang. The dual XC day/night is what I'm lacking. I've flown all over the place, but yet I have to do the 2 hour day and 2 hour night DUAL cross-country. Silly requirement.

-Andrew
 
ahkahn said:
I know. I'm going through it right now. Just started my commercial training, I've got almost 500 hours, and have cross-country time out the yin-yang. The dual XC day/night is what I'm lacking. I've flown all over the place, but yet I have to do the 2 hour day and 2 hour night DUAL cross-country. Silly requirement.

-Andrew
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I was in the same place. I had a 4400nm cross country encompassing 18 states in 12 days, but nooooooo, we need 2 x 2hr ones with an instructor.
 
gms5002 said:
Maybe it used to be, but now it says in 61.129(a)(4)
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It's still "solo." The "performing the duties" option is a supervised solo or a substitute solo. But it's to meet the solo requirement.

The distinction that 61.129(a)(3) tasks are dual and 61.129 (a)(4) tasks are solo still exists. They can't be combines especially since the 61.129(a)(4) tasks, even with a CFI on board, are not logged or counted as training received.
 
ahkahn said:
I know. I'm going through it right now. Just started my commercial training, I've got almost 500 hours, and have cross-country time out the yin-yang. The dual XC day/night is what I'm lacking. I've flown all over the place, but yet I have to do the 2 hour day and 2 hour night DUAL cross-country. Silly requirement.

-Andrew
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If you are IR rated, wouldn't you already have the dual 2 hr cross country by using the long x-country required for that rating?
 
neilw2 said:
If you are IR rated, wouldn't you already have the dual 2 hr cross country by using the long x-country required for that rating?
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Not necessarily. The IFR dual doesn't require going at least 100 NM from the departure airport as the commercial cross country does. Second, unless the CFI endorsed it as covering the areas of operation of both 61.65(c) and 61.127(b)(1) it wouldn't count even if it did meet the required distance and time of day requirements.
 
ahkahn said:
I know. I'm going through it right now. Just started my commercial training, I've got almost 500 hours, and have cross-country time out the yin-yang. The dual XC day/night is what I'm lacking. I've flown all over the place, but yet I have to do the 2 hour day and 2 hour night DUAL cross-country. Silly requirement.

-Andrew
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You can combine it, 2 hours out, stop for dinner, return at night.
 
For the long solo can I count this?

I did a PNP trip.

KHTS to Kbwg 202 nm
Kbwg to KHTS 202 nm
KHTS to KUSW Spencer WV same day
KUSW to KHTS my home base

KUSW is 263 nm from KBWG
Can I count that as my long xc?
 
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How funny I just looked at my log totals and I'm 40 hours, 10 which need to be in a complex to hit the requirements for a commercial.... Well and the training of course.

Maybe I'll do that sometime before I need a bfr
 
Hey, JD! I see we both have the same idea . . . Been tossing it around for a while. My long solo XC would have to be this one: HTW - HTW (once around the pattern, full stop, taxi back), then HTW - MLJ, stay the night, then MLJ - FXE.

Coming back, went FXE - PXE, stopped for lunch, then PXE - HTW, which is only two landings so it doesn't count.

Lots of other long distance trips, but the stopping at 3 airports enroute is what keeps getting in the way. Either that, or I'm not solo. Most of mine are 300-400 nm straight line, only landing at the destination.
 
tree96 said:
For the long solo can I count this?

I did a PNP trip.

KHTS to Kbwg 202 nm
Kbwg to KHTS 202 nm
KHTS to KUSW Spencer WV same day
KUSW to KHTS my home base

KUSW is 263 nm from KBWG
Can I count that as my long xc?
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Compare the flight to what the reg says is required for the flight. If, after doing that you have a specific question about the reg and it's application (like, is it solo with the pups on board? :D) definitely ask.
 
Hey Hank!

That one trip is the only one I was solo and met the distance/landing requirements. Although I originally departed from HTS and ended up there. I did have to reposition to BWG so I'm hoping that would fulfill the requirements.

Most of mine only have two landings. Kinda silly
 
The only thing to watch out for are the 2 2hr instructional flights called out in

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

(i) Ten hours of instrument training using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. Five hours of the 10 hours required on instrument training must be in a single engine airplane;

(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;

(iii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

The way that I read it those need to be with an instructor :( but it was a good time to do some airport hopping and get in an IPC have dinner and enjoy a nice flight back at night
 
tree96 said:
Most of mine only have two landings. Kinda silly
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I made several solo trips, KAUO -- KHTW and back, some 400+ nm each way! with one landing at each end. Just wasn't thinking . . . Even if I used the whole weekend flight, that's only two landings. I'll have to check the logbook, but I don't remember making a Portsmouth or Big Sandy run while there, that would definitely seal the deal!

Saw some pictures of the twins the other day, they are really growing! Take after their dad, I reckon.

Just heard about this today: http://www.thegreatgeorgiaairshow.com
It's Halloween weekend, we're gonna try to go one day or the other. There's a home football game on Saturday, I may record it and watch when we get back. It's at the same field as Aircraft Spruce, which I also need to visit . . . I can fly up and get two cases of oil (and assorted other stuff) for what they charge to ship the oil to me. It's a no-brained.
 
Hank S said:
I made several solo trips, KAUO -- KHTW and back, some 400+ nm each way! with one landing at each end. Just wasn't thinking . . . Even if I used the whole weekend flight, that's only two landings. I'll have to check the logbook, but I don't remember making a Portsmouth or Big Sandy run while there, that would definitely seal the deal!

Saw some pictures of the twins the other day, they are really growing! Take after their dad, I reckon.

Just heard about this today: http://www.thegreatgeorgiaairshow.com
It's Halloween weekend, we're gonna try to go one day or the other. There's a home football game on Saturday, I may record it and watch when we get back. It's at the same field as Aircraft Spruce, which I also need to visit . . . I can fly up and get two cases of oil (and assorted other stuff) for what they charge to ship the oil to me. It's a no-brained.
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The 250 nm from original point of departure is what is getting me. I don't want it to not look on the up and up if I left HTS then went 65 miles north, then landed back at HTS after BWG without going back to USW.

I'm most likely going to do my long xc for the instrument rating with Jessica this weekend. She mentioned LUK like you guys did on your xc.

The twins are making me an old man fast! Growing like crazy.

That looks like an awesome lineup for that air show. I love Fat Albert. Yea you could have it delivered to your house, but it's more enjoyable to break nag it home smelling like avgas.
We are trying to do the fall plane ride day that day if we can get enough pilots. :dunno:
 
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