Comm Training

[swamppilot]

A post by teller in another thread got me thinking. How may of the instructors out there actually give any real instruction on radio technique. Sure most will give a new student the very basics before they make their first radio call, but do you follow up later with some formal training? It seems that most students just learn by osmossis from that point on by listening to other pilots, and all the mistakes are carrie forward and at times get worse.

 

[ScottM]

I got a little sheet of scripted things to say from my CFI. But after using it once or twice and reading the AIM I was on my own. But I was also very comfortable talking on the radio having been doing so on various two-way services for 25 years at that time. I am a ham, a former MARS operator, worked as a cop in college, etc. Mike fright was not a problem and I could pick up jargon very easily. The thing that always annoyed my instructors about radio stuff with me was that I could read Morse code in my head.

 

[t0r0nad0]

No, I didn't get any formal instruction from my CFI, but I didn't really need it. I learned a lot from listening to the ATC on MS Flight Sim 2002 and 2004 (including the dreaded "With You" that I have since dropped). I also use MSFS04 on VATSIM all the time where I'm actually making the calls. It's a good way to practice because in the virtual world, nothing too terrible happens if you take time to fumble through a radio call. The controller may get a bit annoyed, but so what? I also got a radio scanner and would sit out by the local airport and just watch and listen.

 

[Everskyward]

Besides learning the basics when getting my private I don't think anyone said anything to me about radio usage until many years later when I flew with a Chief Pilot that had a few pet peeves. He banished the words "to" and "for" from my vocabulary as being too easily confused with "two" and "four".

As far as the "any traffic..." thing, I learned to fly before that became popular and never adopted it. However I never knew how controversial it was until I started frequenting internet chat boards. Funny, I heard Allegiant (MD-80) use it the other day and I had to laugh to myself. He used it on all the radio calls he made and I think we were the only other traffic around.

 

[Tristar]

I dunno if it's considered formal training but I bought the Comm1 radio simulator. It helped me get a heads up of what to expect. I think it would help at least in the phonetics area for brand new students.

 

[Ted]

I haven't gotten formal radio training at this point. For the first few lessons he did the mic work, so I was paying attention via osmosis. After that, he had me do it, telling me what to say and why I was saying it, and it became me doing all the radio work. Whenever I'm unsure I ask him for clarification.

I actually tend to do better at radio when I'm solo than when I'm with him. Standard rule - your best landings are always when nobody is there to watch, and your worst are when there's a crowd.

 

[Danos]

Radio work was probably the most challenging thing for me in the beginning learning at Teterboro seeing as nothing there is standard for single piston VFR, so a lot of focus was on comms. The good thing was that I got exposed to a lot of different things inthe beginning and feel confident pretty much anywhere.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Hell yes they get formal radio training, on the ground, airborne and written. Most of the calls we hear in towered and untowered around here I'd say are pretty well done, succinct and clear. Then the obvious but fairly rare exceptions do stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[poadeleted20]

I do, and I give out reading assignments in the AIM to support it.

 

[swamppilot]

I do, and I give out reading assignments in the AIM to support it.

Kudos to you Ron, but I already knew you would. I suspect there aren't a lot of instructors like you around. I think that's why we hear so much sloppy radio work. Gets back to the basics, the students don't learn what they're not taught and then the student turns into an instructor NOT teaching what was not taught to him/her.

 

[jwriteclub]

Absolutely.

However, as a new CFI I have a question for the more experienced about this. I have one student who is really comfortable on the radio, and while I will critique his radio calls and pointed him to the correct section in the AIM, I didn't really need to do much formal instructing for him to do well.

I have another who is having a real problem with the radio. When we're flying over to an airport to practice takeoff and landings he always checks with me about all the radio calls he plans to make, and they are perfect. The moment he keys the mike, however, they become a complete mess. I've tried some practice ATC back and forth with him on the ground, and gotten him knowledgeable about the terminology, but I cannot come up with a good way to overcome the "mic fright" or "mic verbal dyslexia".

Any suggestions to help him with this?

~ Christopher

 

[poadeleted20]

I have another who is having a real problem with the radio. When we're flying over to an airport to practice takeoff and landings he always checks with me about all the radio calls he plans to make, and they are perfect. The moment he keys the mike, however, they become a complete mess. I've tried some practice ATC back and forth with him on the ground, and gotten him knowledgeable about the terminology, but I cannot come up with a good way to overcome the "mic fright" or "mic verbal dyslexia".

Any suggestions to help him with this?

The "Comm 1" computer training package for home practice, and a lot of comm drills (sit at a table, you be ATC/ATIS/EFAS, and go through entire IFR flights including clearance pickup, taxi, takeoff, departure, enroute comm, getting weather enroute, copying ATIS, etc) on the ground. Initially, it will take an hour or more to go through one whole flight, but it really helps. Do this every lesson before you fly (be sure to block yourself for the extra time) and he'll pick it up right quick.

 

[midlifeflyer]

but I cannot come up with a good way to overcome the "mic fright" or "mic verbal dyslexia".

Any suggestions to help him with this?

It sounds like he knows what to say but has trouble saying it. If that's the case I don't think it's a drill issue, but true "mic fright" - akin to the person who knows a topic well enough to teach it, but just can't speak in public. Perhaps a fear of being embarrassed.

Hard to tell what to do without (sometimes even with) sitting down with the student, but sometimes it's a sense of "everybody else can and I'm an idiot." Software like Comm1 could make it worse. Maybe the opposite tack - listening into a local tower frequency where he will hear how bad some pilots are will give him a more realistic view of where he really is in terms of knowledge.

Are you already having him use crib sheets? Like most mnemonics, I personally dislike them, but they can be useful to get over a learning hump.

(BTW, to answer the OP, yes, I teach my students communication and don't just have them pick it up by osmosis. How "formal" it becomes depends on the student)

 

[jwriteclub]

No, I have not yet come up with a crib sheet. I am not generally fond of them either. I recently suggested the liveATC site to him, thinking that just some more immersion in the sound environment might help.

~ Christopher

 

[swamppilot]

Ron, do you have a lesson plan around comms (even if it's in your head rather than a formal written plan)?

 

[midlifeflyer]

No, I have not yet come up with a crib sheet. I am not generally fond of them either. I recently suggested the liveATC site to him, thinking that just some more immersion in the sound environment might help.

~ Christopher

Here's one of the handouts I use for teaching communications. It's not a crib sheet but follows a series of "typical" communications at my home base from taxi to tie-down. You might want to try something like it with your student.

Of course, I'm bound to be criticized for leaving the all-important "with you" out of it

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Absolutely.

However, as a new CFI I have a question for the more experienced about this. I have one student who is really comfortable on the radio, and while I will critique his radio calls and pointed him to the correct section in the AIM, I didn't really need to do much formal instructing for him to do well.

I have another who is having a real problem with the radio. When we're flying over to an airport to practice takeoff and landings he always checks with me about all the radio calls he plans to make, and they are perfect. The moment he keys the mike, however, they become a complete mess. I've tried some practice ATC back and forth with him on the ground, and gotten him knowledgeable about the terminology, but I cannot come up with a good way to overcome the "mic fright" or "mic verbal dyslexia".

Any suggestions to help him with this?

~ Christopher

Practice on the ground (in a cockpit is best but not essential) simulating first the common calls then some atypical ones like lost scenarios, engine out, etc.

 

[nddons]

The thing that always annoyed my instructors about radio stuff with me was that I could read Morse code in my head.

Cool skill. I learned Semaphore when I was in Boy Scouts in the early '70s. One of the less useful skills - unless I joined the USN.

 

[Teller1900]

Cool skill. I learned Semaphore when I was in Boy Scouts in the early '70s. One of the less useful skills - unless I joined the USN.

I don't know, that seems like it'd be great for ordering drinks at a noisy bar. Provided, of course, you have an amazingly nerdy bar tender .

 

[rottydaddy]

Radio work was probably the most challenging thing for me in the beginning learning at Teterboro seeing as nothing there is standard for single piston VFR, so a lot of focus was on comms. The good thing was that I got exposed to a lot of different things inthe beginning and feel confident pretty much anywhere.

LOL- I hear you- I also started at KTEB... even just over ten years ago, it was not the friendliest place for novice bug-smashers. But yes, very educational. I was also lucky to solo and then do more training at (uncontrolled) N07, where I learned even more (mostly what NOT to say), then returning to KTEB to finish up.


As for what should be taught and how, here's my non-instructor's 2 cents:

It's possible to be too pro-active. I had a couple of CFIs back then who were the Nervous-Nellie type, always playing with the radio or telling me what to say instead of letting me practice (it's very much a mater of acclimation), but my first two instructors simply had me listen to them a few times and encouraged me to soak up all the other calls on the various freqs... I found this a much better way to learn, and they told me I adapted very well. My second instructor even used to always say "damn, you're better than I am on the radio!". I think I learned an awful lot about timing and cadence listening to those KTEB controllers, who could go on like auctioneers sometimes yet be well-understood. Controllers seem to like it when I take pains to make my calls as they do... I tend to follow their lead and defer to their judgement on how to use the radio because after all, the average cab or TRACON controller makes many, many more radio calls in a given period than any pilot.

And a couple of good long flights with multiple stops at unfam fields and a call or two to Flight Watch while under Flight Following should clear up the freq-juggling and jargon-spouting jitters for any noob radio-user. From what I've heard out there it does not always do the trick , but it should...

It's really not that complicated: as long as you accurately spit out Who, Where, and What, listen to everything on your freq and not just your tail number and read back what's supposed to be read back, you won't do any damage.

And one more thing: don't argue with the weekend crew in the Brown Muni tower in San Diego; they keep a copy of the FAR/AIM handy (no it wasn't me).

 

[mrpalaviccini]

Hey guys, first post here. I just started flight school and have 3.8 hrs under my belt .

I'm one of those guys with mic fright and one thing that has helped me tremendously is just practicing OUT LOUD. I do it mostly in my car. Here is how it goes:

ME: Traffic Light, Mazda Golf-Whiskey-niner-X-X. At the intersection of University and 34th street. Requesting a right turn.

TRAFFIC LIGHT (me in a diff voice): Mazda XXXX, Traffic light. Hold until light turns green and proceed with a right turn onto 34th St.

ME: hold until light turns green and proceed with right turn. MAZDA XXXX.

Sometimes I'll even ask the car ahead of me to allow me to pass him. It just really needs to be out loud or the mic fright won't go away. I guess I just need to remember that ATC are people too ... and they speak English that I understand.

Miguel

 

[KennyFlys]

Hey guys, first post here. I just started flight school and have 3.8 hrs under my belt .

Miguel, Welcome to the board! I hope the flight training is going well. Most all of us will look forward to your experience along the way.

Talking out loud with ATC requests and replies really does help. During my practice for teaching lessons as a CFI, I don't have a captive audience at home (save my cat!) to listen and provide feedback. So, I speak out loud exactly how I'd attempt to teach an actual student during a ground lesson.

If I goof up (I often do!) then I have a chance to modify my statement and do it over. It works better than no practice at all.

Good luck with the practice and flight training!

 

[t0r0nad0]

Great idea Miguel! Welcome to POA and good luck with the training. I look forward to hearing more about it.

 

[Bill]

How may of the instructors out there actually give any real instruction on radio technique.

For the first half of my PP training, my guy would brief me on new radio technique/terminology before each lesson. He was also retired ATC (knew good radio technique), and we flew out of class C, so I had to get radio quickly. He had me doing all the calls by the 4th lesson:

1. Lesson one, he made the calls.
2. Lesson two, he told me what to say, and like a good parrot I made the calls.
3. Lesson three, I would tell him what I was going to say, he would approve and/or modify, and then I'd make the call.
4. Lesson four, the radio is yours, chief.