College and Aviation

nickporter15

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Nick
Since I will be in college next year I was wondering if there was any commercial pilots out there who had some advice for me. I want to go to school and major in flight technology which is what the degree is called for aspiring pro pilots at the certain college I would like to attend. Would anyone recommend that I major in something else as a "backup" I really would like to major in flight technology and I have no idea what else I would take, but if something happened and I could not keep my medical I don't know what to do. Are there other jobs a pilot could get if his education was only in aviation?
 
I got an Aviation Technology degree from a fairly well known college in the mid-west. While it worked out for me, I would actually suggest that you get a degree in anything else OTHER than Aviation. Most places want A degree. Any degree. Not necessarily an aviation degree.

Aviation is a fickle industry. It always pays to have a backup.

Having said that, if your heart is set on an Aviation degree of some sort, by all means go for it. Just go into it knowing that there are a lot of people chasing after not all that many jobs.

Oh, and don't be one of those that goes a couple of hundred thousand dollars in debt to chase a $30,000 a year job. Pay as you go if at all possible and avoid the debt as much as possible.
 
Not a professional pilot but my dad is a pilot for Delta and told me NOT to get the aeronautical science degree. You'll just end up with a bunch of student loans and debt. He has the degree from Embry Riddle and says it's pretty much useless. Major something in engineering, computer science, or business administration and fly on the side. I am a senior in school majoring in Economics. I am working on my CFI and will have most if not all the ratings that a kid from Riddle would have except I only have to pay back one very small loan when I graduate.
 
I'd like to have a back up, but I just don't know what else I could major in that I would be interested in.
 
First off, an "aviation" degree is a waist of money, if you're debating going to ERU or something, STOP.

Look into North Dakota or some private FBOs, look into moving somewhere with some good ridge lift and build some budget time in gliders, shot gun time as a saftey pilot with friends and split the costs. Get a degree online, check out Utah Valley U.

I'll give ya a copy paste from someone who asked the same question;

Is it a great time to get into the industry, its not going to get any better, it's not going to get any cheaper, so yeah.

Currently I make good money, have a secure job, sweet sched, single pilot ops, good bennies, I'm home every night and live in a sweet town. This industry is what you make of it.

I'll say its harder to be successful in this industry then most conventional careers, but if you have a brain on you, can think outside the box, and have a passion, as in eat, sleep and breathe this stuff, you'll do fine.

Only concern I have is you asking the question. When I got into this I didn't ask, it could have been the worse time in the world to get into it, I was still going to do it and kick azz, non negotiable. If you don't have that attitude it might not be a good idea to go down this path.

As far as waiting and getting your degree first, if you want to work as an whatever do that first, if you want to work as a pilot do that first. One nice thing nowadays is its not that bad earning a degree online, our company pays a ok chunk of change for education, in our down time quite a few of our pilots are getting their BAs and MAs just because they can.
 
BS college majors are such a small part of all the nonsense. You won't take classes pertaining to your major until after 2 years of women's studies and remedial English classes. Stop yanking your own chain, none of it matters. Ditch the aviation school idea and go to a cheap college full of girls. Fly on the side.
 
It doesn't really make much difference what you major in if you want to be a pilot. I always recommend people major in what they are good at and interested in. That way you will like what you study and like what you do. Better to like it, you have to do it a LOT!
 
Since I will be in college next year I was wondering if there was any commercial pilots out there who had some advice for me. I want to go to school and major in flight technology which is what the degree is called for aspiring pro pilots at the certain college I would like to attend. Would anyone recommend that I major in something else as a "backup" I really would like to major in flight technology and I have no idea what else I would take, but if something happened and I could not keep my medical I don't know what to do. Are there other jobs a pilot could get if his education was only in aviation?

Other jobs like airport management? Or possibly owner of an aviation business like flight school, or maintenance, or FBO management.

Yes aviation offers a whole lot more than just flying. And an aviation degree is not required.

Now to sound like your dad, go to college, get that degree and get out of my house.!! (ok, that was more like my dad)
 
Nick,

I'll give you a slightly different perspective on a degree choice. Get the degree in something you find interesting. If it's Aviation Technology, then do it. If it keeps you motivated, then do it.

Debt is a huge and different issue.

You are rightly concerned about thinking about a backup source of income if your company or medical or both become an issue. The problem with so many degree programs is that if you don't use that degree and you then want to fall back after 10, 15, 20 years, it will still require a return to school to make it work for you. You will still have the golden handcuff issues to boot. What you really need to do is to structure your financial future in such a way that you can survive longer periods of unemployment than most non-aviation people.
 
I just picked up a student who's doing online college classes while flight training and working part time to keep costs down. I think it's a smart way to go.

As for degrees, do something in computer science and learning programming. It's a great backup that will forever be in demand.
 
BSCS, BSEE, BSChE, BSME. I have to disagree with those who are telling you to do something you're interested in. It's college, and either you blow it off and get your major in basket weaving, or spend about the same amount and get a degree that will pay $50-120k/year on graduation. I just had two kids graduate from engineering schools and both of them are very, very well paid. No - school wasn't easy, and it wasn't fun, but it was interesting, and their 5 years of hard work are being rewarded.

If you want to fly, find an ultralight and fly without a PPL around the pattern so you can get your flying fix. Once you are out of school, you can start messing with planes for real.

Forget the aviation degree unless you want to manage an airport or FBO. Even then, you would be better served with a std business degree.
 
Agree with Cowboy,

In college, you either blow it off or work hard knowing the end result will get you well paid.

Airlines don't care what your degree is in and no preferential treatment is given to people who went to Embry-Riddle or Purdue. People in my pilot training class studied everything from Mechanical Engineering, Computer Engineering, Russian, Communications, Criminal Justice, Management, Accounting, even Nursing.

There were a few that had professional pilot degrees, but they were all Guard or Reserve guys building hours for the airlines, and because they were not making any money out in the "real world." One guy was working at Panera Bread because he couldn't get a job with his "Professional Aviation" degree anywhere else, so he up and joined the Guard flying C-17s.

There are almost no jobs that would require a professional flight degree. An aviation management degree...eh..maybe, but very few. A lot of airport managers and FBO operators I know didn't have aviation degrees. There are even some flying jobs, however, that may be easier to obtain if you have a degree in something other than aviation, such as flying for the National Park Service, Customs and Border Patrol, or a test pilot.

The majority of my close friends are pilots for regional airlines, major airlines, military, and corporate flight departments. I would say 90% of them would tell you to not get an aviation degree and do your flight training on the side. It will cost you almost the same amount, if not a little cheaper.
 
The problem with so many degree programs is that if you don't use that degree and you then want to fall back after 10, 15, 20 years, it will still require a return to school to make it work for you.
This. If you haven't been employed in your backup field and it gets to be 5, 10 or more years down the road you won't be competitive in that field either without some additional education.
 
Do what you want to do. I'm doing an aviation degree. There are a few differences for me though. My parents work for an aerospace company and hire people from my school with my degree for jobs other than pilot. So I know there are other opportunities out there. A lot of people that graduate decide they don't want to fly anymore, so they go into operations or design or management or pretty much anything with airplanes. There are jobs both in aviation and out of aviation that you can get. You just have to look and not be lazy. If you do want to be an airline pilot, this type of degree makes me eligible for the restricted ATP. Not only that, but a lot of people here are still in their senior year (some in their junior) and they are already hired by the airline they wanted. All we have to do is get up to 1000 hours as a CFI and walk out the door. Once we are CFIs, our tuition is paid for (in part or in whole depending on full or part time) and we have the ability to obtain a masters for free as well.

Obviously there will be positives and negatives to anything you do. I like how mine is working out. I'm about a month away from my CFI and I've only been here 2 and 1/2 semesters. The mix of business classes and aviation classes really helps you keep everything you learned locked in. There are opportunities out there for us everywhere, our alumni prove that. It's more about you and whether you put in the Effort to get out of it what you want.

I will say it's pretty expensive and if I didn't get scholarships and reduced tuition for the CFI thing it would definitely be a burden. Most schools are really expensive these days. I didn't want a huge public school so I was pretty limited to small private ones anyway. This is what I like to do so it is what I'm going to do.

Just another input. I will say that as far as the airlines go, your degree doesn't really matter. We have heard input from some of the recruiters telling us they prefer aviation degrees now but that's pretty much impossible to prove so I don't believe it.

Good luck in whatever you do!
 
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I agree with most of the above, get your degree in something other than Aviation. A bit biased, but a Business degree (any of them really) is about as universal as it gets as a backup. The Aviation business is very fickle and goes through lots of hiring surges and lay-offs. Engineering is another always-needed field of study, but it requires a lot of dedication to complete that degree.

You can always attend a major college that happens to have a flight program. I went to the University of Oklahoma which was affordable and had a flight school/airport in town which I did my ground training. I could have continued on with Private training as well if I had wanted. Meanwhile, my Finance degree has been very useful in my career as an accountant/financial analyst. Always a call for accountants in the marketplace, too.
 
I agree with the others who recommend something OTHER THAN an Aviation degree. Pick a big 4 year State school (lower in-state tuition), that has a lot of various degree programs. Your first two years, you will be taking mostly "core" courses anyway, giving you time to sample some electives in other Majors. And most schools will allow you to put off declaring a Major until "later" anyway, giving you time to see what you like. Work part time, while in college, and take flying lessons at a local flight school...... do not go into debt.

Another route you might at least consider: Enlist in the National Guard or Reserves, get something aircraft related (mechanic, Crew Chief, avionics technician, etc) as your Military Occupation. After a couple of years, you can look into Warrant Officer Flight Training (WOFT) - helicopters are way more fun - and/or consider Officer Training (and a Pilot position) after you graduate with your 4 year degree. If you have not explored these military options, it might at least be worth looking into.
 
I'm gonna go with the consensus here, and recommend getting a more generic degree at a NON aviation oriented college (way more girls!), and pursuing aviation training on the side. Just be careful not to bite off more than you can chew re: your major.

My quick story:

In 1983, when I graduated HS, I was all set to go to ERAU in Daytona to pursue my career in aviation, as it was the ONLY thing I wanted to do.

In the spring of my senior year of HS, unbeknownst to me, my music teacher had put me in for an audition for a music scholarship to a local university. While it is one of my passions, I had never considered a career in music, since all I'd ever wanted to do was be a pilot. I did the audition, and was offered the scholarship. I took it, started college in the fall and continued learning to fly on the side (as well as work part time at the airport while living at home and trying to keep up with a university level curriculum). The music scholarship turned something I loved doing into a chore, as they had me running all frigging day and night. Many days went from 0600 til well past midnight, and I still had homework to do......

It didn't take long to discover that, even at 18 years old, there are only so many hours in the day, and something had to give. I quit that college after one semester, and since ERAU worked on "trimesters" and the new one didn't start until March, my mom was freaking out that I'd never go back if I took a few months off and worked at the airport!

My dad was an airline pilot, and a guy he flew with was on the BOD of a small community college in western PA that had an aviation program. It was a LOT cheaper than Riddle (which appealed to the airline pilot in my dad), they took all of my credits from the other university, and if I became a resident of certain counties, even got a huge discount on tuition AND flying. I went out there, and became a resident. I already had the bulk of my private finished, and just dove in.

A huge advantage over Riddle and other aviation oriented schools was that there were 3 141 flight schools affiliated with the college, so I could fly as much, and whenever I wanted to. At Riddle et al, the flying syllabus is much more tightly scheduled, and it's harder to work at your own pace, or at least it was back then. I flew my butt off, and was able to bang out my private, commercial and instrument in under a year, all while getting my college stuff done. I walked out of there with an AS degree.

The next year, I went to a college closer to home to finish up my BS, got my multi and was working on my CFI. After my first semester, the company at which I was working as a mechanic offered me a conditional flying job (I had to spend the summer as a line boy at HTO because they couldn't find anyone willing to go out there that they could rely on). I had also been doing test flights and "slot preservation" at LGA for the little airline they owned (think: the TV show Wings) while I was working in MX.

Being the pragmatist that I am, I figured that I could always continue college any time, but the opportunity to get paid to build hours at my experience level (550 hours or so) was not likely to happen again, so I quit college and started flying for a 135 airline at the ripe old age of 21. I figure if I got laid off, I could always go back to college.

I never finished up my degree (nor my CFI), as, with the exception of a 3 month period in '87, I've always been employed as a pilot since.

I've been very lucky in my career, and was able to get all of the bad stuff (dismal pay, furloughs, 2 chapter 11s, 3 chapter 7's etc) out of the way in the first 10 years and have been with the same major for 19 years now.

The best advice I can give, if you're looking at the airlines, is get your degree as quickly and cheaply as possible while working on your ratings. Do whatever it takes to build as many hours as soon as possible, in the most complex airplanes someone will let you fly. The best way to do the latter is to network, and the best way to network is to work at an airport. I got 4 of my 9 flying jobs solely because I was working at the airport (as a line boy and in mx) and knew everyone.

Seniority is life in the context of an airline career, so the earlier you get hired, the quicker you upgrade, get better schedules, days off etc.

Always take the first class date when offered a job.

Always treat your co workers like gold, even, no ESPECIALLY those "below" you in stature, because besides being the right thing to do, you never know when you'll need a job recommendation from them. I credit my current position to the recommendations of my former FOs who are all senior to me here and all wrote glowing (all lies ;) ) recs for me. I truly believe that they're the reason I am sitting here today.

IMHO, while the career is certainly a crap shoot, and there are NO guarantees, the earlier in life you start, the better chance you have of a successful career, hence getting college and time building out of the way as early as possible.

Good luck!
 
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I was going to add my two cents, then Slipkid65 came along and posted something that's far better than anything I could have contributed.

So here's my advice - read his post again! :D
 
I'm gonna go with the consensus here, and recommend getting a more generic degree at a NON aviation oriented college (way more girls!), and pursuing aviation training on the side. Just be careful not to bite off more than you can chew re: your major.

My quick story:

In 1983, when I graduated HS, I was all set to go to ERAU in Daytona to pursue my career in aviation, as it was the ONLY thing I wanted to do.

In the spring of my senior year of HS, unbeknownst to me, my music teacher had put me in for an audition for a music scholarship to a local university. While it is one of my passions, I had never considered a career in music, since all I'd ever wanted to do was be a pilot. I did the audition, and was offered the scholarship. I took it, started college in the fall and continued learning to fly on the side (as well as work part time at the airport while living at home and trying to keep up with a university level curriculum). The music scholarship turned something I loved doing into a chore, as they had me running all frigging day and night. Many days went from 0600 til well past midnight, and I still had homework to do......

It didn't take long to discover that, even at 18 years old, there are only so many hours in the day, and something had to give. I quit that college after one semester, and since ERAU worked on "trimesters" and the new one didn't start until March, my mom was freaking out that I'd never go back if I took a few months off and worked at the airport!

My dad was an airline pilot, and a guy he flew with was on the BOD of a small community college in western PA that had an aviation program. It was a LOT cheaper than Riddle (which appealed to the airline pilot in my dad), they took all of my credits from the other university, and if I became a resident of certain counties, even got a huge discount on tuition AND flying. I went out there, and became a resident. I already had the bulk of my private finished, and just dove in.

A huge advantage over Riddle and other aviation oriented schools was that there were 3 141 flight schools affiliated with the college, so I could fly as much, and whenever I wanted to. At Riddle et al, the flying syllabus is much more tightly scheduled, and it's harder to work at your own pace, or at least it was back then. I flew my butt off, and was able to bang out my private, commercial and instrument in under a year, all while getting my college stuff done. I walked out of there with an AS degree.

The next year, I went to a college closer to home to finish up my BS, got my multi and was working on my CFI. After my first semester, the company at which I was working as a mechanic offered me a conditional flying job (I had to spend the summer as a line boy at HTO because they couldn't find anyone willing to go out there that they could rely on). I had also been doing test flights and "slot preservation" at LGA for the little airline they owned (think: the TV show Wings) while I was working in MX.

Being the pragmatist that I am, I figured that I could always continue college any time, but the opportunity to get paid to build hours at my experience level (550 hours or so) was not likely to happen again, so I quit college and started flying for a 135 airline at the ripe old age of 21. I figure if I got laid off, I could always go back to college.

I never finished up my degree (nor my CFI), as, with the exception of a 3 month period in '87, I've always been employed as a pilot since.

I've been very lucky in my career, and was able to get all of the bad stuff (dismal pay, furloughs, 2 chapter 11s, 3 chapter 7's etc) out of the way in the first 10 years and have been with the same major for 19 years now.

The best advice I can give, if you're looking at the airlines, is get your degree as quickly and cheaply as possible while working on your ratings. Do whatever it takes to build as many hours as soon as possible, in the most complex airplanes someone will let you fly. The best way to do the latter is to network, and the best way to network is to work at an airport. I got 4 of my 9 flying jobs solely because I was working at the airport (as a line boy and in mx) and knew everyone.

Seniority is life in the context of an airline career, so the earlier you get hired, the quicker you upgrade, get better schedules, days off etc.

Always take the first class date when offered a job.

Always treat your co workers like gold, even, no ESPECIALLY those "below" you in stature, because besides being the right thing to do, you never know when you'll need a job recommendation from them. I credit my current position to the recommendations of my former FOs who are all senior to me here and all wrote glowing (all lies ;) ) recs for me. I truly believe that they're the reason I am sitting here today.

IMHO, while the career is certainly a crap shoot, and there are NO guarantees, the earlier in life you start, the better chance you have of a successful career, hence getting college and time building out of the way as early as possible.

Good luck!
What school in western pa?
 
My dad encouraged me to go to Embry-Riddle and offered to pay for it if I kept my grades high and finished on time. I finished my BS in Professional Aeronautics (now just Aeronautics for some reason) this June.

The value in going to ERAU was meeting people who were in aviation careers (almost always much older than me). I got my aviation sales job by meeting people in class. The subject matter, once you get past the english and math and everything isn't all that bad, except when you are at a worldwide campus and they throw you some instructor who doesn't know what they're talking about. There weren't many, but there were some doozies let me tell you.

The downside to ERAU is that is incredibly expensive. When I started in 2010, 675/class for worldwide. Now? Over 1000 per class. And that's for the worldwide - a room in an office building that they rent out. The online classes as well as EagleVision (video classes) are still that expensive, for no discernable reason or benefit.

Had my dad not offered to pay for the education, I probably would not have gone to ERAU. I would probably have found a different trade to back up my aviation career ambitions. I met a Top Gun fighter pilot called Hammer who told me that it didn't matter what degree you had for anything, including the military - his was in elementary education and here he was flying F-18's in Nevada every day.

That being said though, ERAU's course plans have given me some good knowledge in things relating to aviation. But I think there's more value for the cost out there somewhere. I'm 23 years old btw, for comparison.

I have been applying for all kinds of aviation jobs in Oklahoma and elsewhere since the start of the year and I didn't get a single interview until May and that was for an airport internship in Aspen CO. Based off my education mostly, but I still ended up losing that one even though I was told I made the top 5 candidates because of ERAU.

I think it's more about experience than education at this point. You can have a nice BS degree like me but if you want to fly or run an airport without hours or past experience, you're going to have a hard time. I'd suggest finding something you like to do on the side that pays pretty well and build up to the flying portion while taking experience over education if the opportunity arises.

Also networking is incredibly important - I found my current job through POA :yes:

//edit
My preference with ERAU was their BS in Aeronautical Science but it was not offered when I started at the worldwide campus so I went with Professional Aeronautics. I intend to be in the aviation industry one way or another, so I believe that it was a good choice for me.
 
I'm gonna go with the consensus here, and recommend getting a more generic degree at a NON aviation oriented college (way more girls!), and pursuing aviation training on the side. Just be careful not to bite off more than you can chew re: your major.



My quick story:



In 1983, when I graduated HS, I was all set to go to ERAU in Daytona to pursue my career in aviation, as it was the ONLY thing I wanted to do.



In the spring of my senior year of HS, unbeknownst to me, my music teacher had put me in for an audition for a music scholarship to a local university. While it is one of my passions, I had never considered a career in music, since all I'd ever wanted to do was be a pilot. I did the audition, and was offered the scholarship. I took it, started college in the fall and continued learning to fly on the side (as well as work part time at the airport while living at home and trying to keep up with a university level curriculum). The music scholarship turned something I loved doing into a chore, as they had me running all frigging day and night. Many days went from 0600 til well past midnight, and I still had homework to do......



It didn't take long to discover that, even at 18 years old, there are only so many hours in the day, and something had to give. I quit that college after one semester, and since ERAU worked on "trimesters" and the new one didn't start until March, my mom was freaking out that I'd never go back if I took a few months off and worked at the airport!



My dad was an airline pilot, and a guy he flew with was on the BOD of a small community college in western PA that had an aviation program. It was a LOT cheaper than Riddle (which appealed to the airline pilot in my dad), they took all of my credits from the other university, and if I became a resident of certain counties, even got a huge discount on tuition AND flying. I went out there, and became a resident. I already had the bulk of my private finished, and just dove in.



A huge advantage over Riddle and other aviation oriented schools was that there were 3 141 flight schools affiliated with the college, so I could fly as much, and whenever I wanted to. At Riddle et al, the flying syllabus is much more tightly scheduled, and it's harder to work at your own pace, or at least it was back then. I flew my butt off, and was able to bang out my private, commercial and instrument in under a year, all while getting my college stuff done. I walked out of there with an AS degree.



The next year, I went to a college closer to home to finish up my BS, got my multi and was working on my CFI. After my first semester, the company at which I was working as a mechanic offered me a conditional flying job (I had to spend the summer as a line boy at HTO because they couldn't find anyone willing to go out there that they could rely on). I had also been doing test flights and "slot preservation" at LGA for the little airline they owned (think: the TV show Wings) while I was working in MX.



Being the pragmatist that I am, I figured that I could always continue college any time, but the opportunity to get paid to build hours at my experience level (550 hours or so) was not likely to happen again, so I quit college and started flying for a 135 airline at the ripe old age of 21. I figure if I got laid off, I could always go back to college.



I never finished up my degree (nor my CFI), as, with the exception of a 3 month period in '87, I've always been employed as a pilot since.



I've been very lucky in my career, and was able to get all of the bad stuff (dismal pay, furloughs, 2 chapter 11s, 3 chapter 7's etc) out of the way in the first 10 years and have been with the same major for 19 years now.



The best advice I can give, if you're looking at the airlines, is get your degree as quickly and cheaply as possible while working on your ratings. Do whatever it takes to build as many hours as soon as possible, in the most complex airplanes someone will let you fly. The best way to do the latter is to network, and the best way to network is to work at an airport. I got 4 of my 9 flying jobs solely because I was working at the airport (as a line boy and in mx) and knew everyone.



Seniority is life in the context of an airline career, so the earlier you get hired, the quicker you upgrade, get better schedules, days off etc.



Always take the first class date when offered a job.



Always treat your co workers like gold, even, no ESPECIALLY those "below" you in stature, because besides being the right thing to do, you never know when you'll need a job recommendation from them. I credit my current position to the recommendations of my former FOs who are all senior to me here and all wrote glowing (all lies ;) ) recs for me. I truly believe that they're the reason I am sitting here today.



IMHO, while the career is certainly a crap shoot, and there are NO guarantees, the earlier in life you start, the better chance you have of a successful career, hence getting college and time building out of the way as early as possible.



Good luck!


Did you go to CCBC in beaver county? That's where I got my private and I took some summer aviation classes there! Live an hour away! And thank you for the advice
 
My advice, coming from an old geezer whose done a lot of different things over his lifetime, is that there are only 3 worthwhile degree fields.

Engineering
Medicine
Law

So, if you're thinking of an aviation degree, skip it. Get at least a bachelors degree (a master is better) in 1 of the 3 above and then, if you REALLY want to fly for a living, join the military as an officer. Good pay, wonderful benefits, and you get to fly every day all over the world. Building multi and turbine time while you do it.

If it turns out the mil is not for you, then you have a useful degree that you can fall back on. That way, when you meet "that girl" you won't be a broke "naer do well" who struggles to earn enough to support the family while living in a rental apt.

I also strongly advocate the "stay out of debt" thing. Go to junior college for the basic classes. It's cheaper than a University. Then transfer to a STATE university for the degree classes. NO online or distance schools because the business world doesn't accept their degrees as valuable or equal to state university degrees. Go to a university that's close to where you live to cut down on the costs even more. The time difference is maybe a year longer that way but the student debt can be cut in half. You can eliminate it entirely if you work while going to school and use your income to pay for school and not partying.
 
I also strongly advocate the "stay out of debt" thing. Go to junior college for the basic classes.

+1

I did all of the classes that ERAU would let me transfer from a community college. Much much cheaper and I have some hilarious stories to boot.

Did you know the division symbol wasn't in school in the 60's? :rofl:
 
+1

I did all of the classes that ERAU would let me transfer from a community college. Much much cheaper and I have some hilarious stories to boot.

Did you know the division symbol wasn't in school in the 60's? :rofl:

My advice, coming from an old geezer whose done a lot of different things over his lifetime, is that there are only 3 worthwhile degree fields.

Engineering
Medicine
Law

Go to junior college for the basic classes. It's cheaper than a University. Then transfer to a STATE university for the degree classes. NO online or distance schools because the business world doesn't accept their degrees as valuable or equal to state university degrees. Go to a university that's close to where you live to cut down on the costs even more. The time difference is maybe a year longer that way but the student debt can be cut in half. You can eliminate it entirely if you work while going to school and use your income to pay for school and not partying.

This is where I disagree. It's not that I don't believe you should keep student loan debt to a minimum, I do. However, rarely have I met someone who went to the JUCO and then transferred to the 4-yr college who didn't later regret it. They always tend to regret not having "the full college experience" of staying in the dorms, the campus antics, the collegiate camaraderie, etc. that goes along with attending a 4-yr college from the start. It's not for everyone, and if paying a few grand less is worth it then by all means go the JUCO route. However, I wouldn't trade my college days for anything. I do think entering the military as an officer is a worthwhile endeavor as well, if that's your cup o' tea.
 
I'm gonna go with the consensus here, and recommend getting a more generic degree at a NON aviation oriented college (way more girls!), and pursuing aviation training on the side. Just be careful not to bite off more than you can chew re: your major.

My quick story:

In 1983, when I graduated HS, I was all set to go to ERAU in Daytona to pursue my career in aviation, as it was the ONLY thing I wanted to do.

In the spring of my senior year of HS, unbeknownst to me, my music teacher had put me in for an audition for a music scholarship to a local university. While it is one of my passions, I had never considered a career in music, since all I'd ever wanted to do was be a pilot. I did the audition, and was offered the scholarship. I took it, started college in the fall and continued learning to fly on the side (as well as work part time at the airport while living at home and trying to keep up with a university level curriculum). The music scholarship turned something I loved doing into a chore, as they had me running all frigging day and night. Many days went from 0600 til well past midnight, and I still had homework to do......

It didn't take long to discover that, even at 18 years old, there are only so many hours in the day, and something had to give. I quit that college after one semester, and since ERAU worked on "trimesters" and the new one didn't start until March, my mom was freaking out that I'd never go back if I took a few months off and worked at the airport!

My dad was an airline pilot, and a guy he flew with was on the BOD of a small community college in western PA that had an aviation program. It was a LOT cheaper than Riddle (which appealed to the airline pilot in my dad), they took all of my credits from the other university, and if I became a resident of certain counties, even got a huge discount on tuition AND flying. I went out there, and became a resident. I already had the bulk of my private finished, and just dove in.

A huge advantage over Riddle and other aviation oriented schools was that there were 3 141 flight schools affiliated with the college, so I could fly as much, and whenever I wanted to. At Riddle et al, the flying syllabus is much more tightly scheduled, and it's harder to work at your own pace, or at least it was back then. I flew my butt off, and was able to bang out my private, commercial and instrument in under a year, all while getting my college stuff done. I walked out of there with an AS degree.

The next year, I went to a college closer to home to finish up my BS, got my multi and was working on my CFI. After my first semester, the company at which I was working as a mechanic offered me a conditional flying job (I had to spend the summer as a line boy at HTO because they couldn't find anyone willing to go out there that they could rely on). I had also been doing test flights and "slot preservation" at LGA for the little airline they owned (think: the TV show Wings) while I was working in MX.

Being the pragmatist that I am, I figured that I could always continue college any time, but the opportunity to get paid to build hours at my experience level (550 hours or so) was not likely to happen again, so I quit college and started flying for a 135 airline at the ripe old age of 21. I figure if I got laid off, I could always go back to college.

I never finished up my degree (nor my CFI), as, with the exception of a 3 month period in '87, I've always been employed as a pilot since.

I've been very lucky in my career, and was able to get all of the bad stuff (dismal pay, furloughs, 2 chapter 11s, 3 chapter 7's etc) out of the way in the first 10 years and have been with the same major for 19 years now.

The best advice I can give, if you're looking at the airlines, is get your degree as quickly and cheaply as possible while working on your ratings. Do whatever it takes to build as many hours as soon as possible, in the most complex airplanes someone will let you fly. The best way to do the latter is to network, and the best way to network is to work at an airport. I got 4 of my 9 flying jobs solely because I was working at the airport (as a line boy and in mx) and knew everyone.

Seniority is life in the context of an airline career, so the earlier you get hired, the quicker you upgrade, get better schedules, days off etc.

Always take the first class date when offered a job.

Always treat your co workers like gold, even, no ESPECIALLY those "below" you in stature, because besides being the right thing to do, you never know when you'll need a job recommendation from them. I credit my current position to the recommendations of my former FOs who are all senior to me here and all wrote glowing (all lies ;) ) recs for me. I truly believe that they're the reason I am sitting here today.

IMHO, while the career is certainly a crap shoot, and there are NO guarantees, the earlier in life you start, the better chance you have of a successful career, hence getting college and time building out of the way as early as possible.

Good luck!
So much for a quick story:D. Nonetheless very enlightening and lots of good information.
 
a lot of people here are still in their senior year (some in their junior) and they are already hired by the airline they wanted.

Could you please explain this a little more...

So the airline hired them with something like 250hrs tt, under 100 multi, and zero turbine pic time?

These students have employee numbers and are union members at their respected airlines and are already building seniority?
 
I nominate Slipkid65's post as "sticky" required reading for any aspiring professional pilots.
 
This is where I disagree. It's not that I don't believe you should keep student loan debt to a minimum, I do. However, rarely have I met someone who went to the JUCO and then transferred to the 4-yr college who didn't later regret it. They always tend to regret not having "the full college experience" of staying in the dorms, the campus antics, the collegiate camaraderie, etc. that goes along with attending a 4-yr college from the start. It's not for everyone, and if paying a few grand less is worth it then by all means go the JUCO route. However, I wouldn't trade my college days for anything. I do think entering the military as an officer is a worthwhile endeavor as well, if that's your cup o' tea.


BS,

I know quite a few folks who went the JC -> transfer route, FYI I live in a college town and the college experience is overrated, heck, my girl and I even get invites to keggers and frat stuff around here and I'm nearly 30.

Save the money, debt, or your parents money & debt.

If it were me I'd get into the job market ASAP and do your degree online with an accredited program while you build your hours WORKING.
 
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This is where I disagree. It's not that I don't believe you should keep student loan debt to a minimum, I do. However, rarely have I met someone who went to the JUCO and then transferred to the 4-yr college who didn't later regret it. They always tend to regret not having "the full college experience" of staying in the dorms, the campus antics, the collegiate camaraderie, etc. that goes along with attending a 4-yr college from the start. It's not for everyone, and if paying a few grand less is worth it then by all means go the JUCO route. However, I wouldn't trade my college days for anything. I do think entering the military as an officer is a worthwhile endeavor as well, if that's your cup o' tea.
Losers. The full college experience can also be gained by working as a ski bum or rafting bum or anything that has young people, nighttime, and alcohol. If one needs the phony structure of college and a 250K bill to get that experience one is a sad loser.
 
This is where I disagree. It's not that I don't believe you should keep student loan debt to a minimum, I do. However, rarely have I met someone who went to the JUCO and then transferred to the 4-yr college who didn't later regret it. They always tend to regret not having "the full college experience" of staying in the dorms, the campus antics, the collegiate camaraderie, etc. that goes along with attending a 4-yr college from the start. It's not for everyone, and if paying a few grand less is worth it then by all means go the JUCO route. However, I wouldn't trade my college days for anything. I do think entering the military as an officer is a worthwhile endeavor as well, if that's your cup o' tea.

I would have loved to have gone to the main erau campus but it was very very expensive. I lived at home and took classes locally at both erau and the community college for the core ones. It kept the relative costs down for my dads side of the agreement too.
 
I'm no expert in this, but I do want to temper the "get a good career as a backup" idea, because I think it really should be "get a good career or a backup." As I see it, you (the generic "you") have three options:

1. Go for a good non-flying career (and the associated degree) and then use your income to fly for fun on the side, or
2. Go for a good backup-career plan for the medical or furlough issue and then go fly professionally, or
3. Go get an aviation degree.

People like to throw around the "Engineering. Medicine. Law." mantra. And that's great, if you're going for option 1. But it makes a lot less sense for option 2. Let's say you graduate with your degree in electrical engineering (and your CFII/MEI), do the CFI thing for 2 or 3 years, get lucky and land a 135 job, then get to the regionals, land your first 121 job, and then have a couple of unexplained seizures on your 45th birthday, when your first kid's about to head off to college. You probably barely have a grasp on phasor arithmetic after 25 years away, let alone the comfort jumping back and forth in the frequency domain that you once had. Medicine and law (in the US at least) are graduate degrees that again, will work great for option 1 (though look into the law market before going that route -- it's pretty bleak these days) but don't lend themselves to "jumping back in" after decades away.

My advice for option 2 is to either go for a career that you can keep your toe dipped in, or to go for a career with a certification that you could maintain.

Example of the former: if you've always kind of dabbled in / liked the idea of computer programming, but just can't imagine doing it as a career because you love flying so much, get a CompSci or engineering (any sort) or math or physics degree and learn to program, make websites, etc. The important part then is to keep up with writing little programs, contributing to open source projects, whatever while you're flying, so if anything happens, you've still "got it" and can work on freelance projects and the like while you're looking for a "real job". Could also provide some side income while you're in the early CFI and regional years.

Example of the latter: get a paramedic or nursing cert or CPA or actuarial degree or something like that. Do whatever minimum you have to do to keep the certification "alive" (many have a "dormant" option which is just fine -- just don't lose it). If you have to, you can re-activate that pretty easily, and there will always be jobs -- maybe not the same great jobs as those who really "dig in" in those professions get, but still decent professional jobs -- that you can get with the cert.

And option 3 is fine if your answer to the question "what would you want to do with your life if you couldn't fly" is "I'd want to work at an FBO / airline or airport management / whatever other non-flying stuff this is good for."

Edit: I will add I know a few people who used the community college route to keep expenses down. They don't feel like they missed out, for what it's worth. I definitely loved my 4-year degree experience, but I also walked away with a science degree, a few certifications, no debt (big state school, scholarships), and a lot of good memories.
 
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First off, an "aviation" degree is a waist of money, ...

A waist of money is not necessarily a bad thing.

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Fun with typos. :D
 

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I went the community college -> out-of-state college route. I got a associate degree in business at a local community college then transferred to an out-of-state college out on Long Island (Go Farmingdale!) where I got my bachelor's degree in aviation administration.

I worked 2 summers (2013 and 2014) at EWR airport in a cargo handling company, thanks to a connection I made in my out-of-state college. This was the only real aviation work experience I ever had so far. I would like to jump into the airport management industry, but really, any kind of non-flying career in aviation would work for me. Is my aviation degree useless? I would not say so yet, just give me another year or two and we'll see. I am mostly going to rely on my network that I build up in Farmingdale. Did a lot of great things during my time at a out-of-state 4-year college, including meeting a lot of aviation students and professors and running the airport management club (AAAE) as president.

As for missing out on the full 4-year college experience since I went to a community college first, I would say that sometimes I do wish I had the full college experience, but I think my best college friends that I made were the ones in community college, even if I didn't really participate in clubs and events too much. I think I made my best friends in community college, and really excelled, networked, and took leadership in an aviation club at an out-of-state 4-year college.
 
What would you guys say if I told you I had a connection to land an internship at a corporate aviation facility if I went to a certain university. Is that a big thing when it comes time for an airline or corporation to hire a new pilot?
 
Corp aviation jobs are a dime a dozen, unless its goin to pay 6 figures I'd save your money.
 
Could you please explain this a little more...

So the airline hired them with something like 250hrs tt, under 100 multi, and zero turbine pic time?

These students have employee numbers and are union members at their respected airlines and are already building seniority?

No the students that are in their junior or senior year are usually almost 1000 hours and CFI,CFII,MEI pilots. We have agreements with certain airlines that come and do pathway programs. One in particular has started to put our students in the system and they do build seniority supposedly, I'm not in this yet and I don't want to apply for it... So I can't speak for specifics or if it has even fully taken effect, but our professors pushed it for a bit. More common is the other version, where we have guaranteed jobs lined up. This one I can speak for because I have seen 15+ of my own friends and instructors go though this year and they all were sent straight from is to training and now fly the line. Basically, once you hit sophomore year, and you have your commercial certificates you can apply. Then our flight school hires you on a thousand hour contract. Once you get your CFI. This is when the airline starts watching you. When we get close to our time we get an interview which is basically a guaranteed job. Then we are guaranteed an interview with the major served by that regional in two years. By being employees of the school we get reduced tuition or tuition remission. We also can get employee rates on out CFII or MEI, sometimes even for free.

It's a lot of work but it is helpful in a lot of ways if you can stick it out. I am a few weeks from my CFI and I also am on track to graduate in 3 years so I save even more money. It doesn't work for everyone but if you're dedicated it will send you on the right direction.

Not sure about the unions, and no we don't need turbine. They want like 50 PIC Multi as a minimum. Easy of you're an MEI. Non MEI instructors get reduced rental rates on the Seminole though so they do that to build time too.
 
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No the students that are in their junior or senior year are usually almost 1000 hours and CFI,CFII,MEI pilots. We have agreements with certain airlines that come and do pathway programs. One in particular has started to put our students in the system and they do build seniority supposedly, I'm not in this yet and I don't want to apply for it... So I can't speak for specifics or if it has even fully taken effect, but our professors pushed it for a bit. More common is the other version, where we have guaranteed jobs lined up. This one I can speak for because I have seen 15+ of my own friends and instructors go though this year and they all were sent straight from is to training and now fly the line. Basically, once you hit sophomore year, and you have your commercial certificates you can apply. Then our flight school hires you on a thousand hour contract. Once you get your CFI. This is when the airline starts watching you. When we get close to our time we get an interview which is basically a guaranteed job. Then we are guaranteed an interview with the major served by that regional in two years. By being employees of the school we get reduced tuition or tuition remission. We also can get employee rates on out CFII or MEI, sometimes even for free.

It's a lot of work but it is helpful in a lot of ways if you can stick it out. I am a few weeks from my CFI and I also am on track to graduate in 3 years so I save even more money. It doesn't work for everyone but if you're dedicated it will send you on the right direction.

Not sure about the unions, and no we don't need turbine. They want like 50 PIC Multi as a minimum. Easy of you're an MEI. Non MEI instructors get reduced rental rates on the Seminole though so they do that to build time too.


A interview is not a guaranteed job.

Why the heck would they hire you when there are plenty of twin turbine cargo haulers and other non 121 turbine guys that have real ATPs and want the job?

I just don't see it

What airline is it?

I would like to be sure to not fly, nor have my family fly on it.

No turbine time, 50 multi, never had a flying job outside of CFIing, that's some scary stuff, sounds like Colgan II

Hope it works out, just doesn't sound like how I'd want to see a 121 hire folks.
 
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Did you go to CCBC in beaver county? That's where I got my private and I took some summer aviation classes there! Live an hour away! And thank you for the advice

Yeah, it was CCBC.

I sent my "protege" (the guy who took over as airplane washer when I became an apprentice mechanic) out there as well, and he's a Capt at Unical nowadays.

There is a lot of good advice in this thread. There is certainly more than one way to skin a cat, but the bottom line always comes down to experience (ie: flying time) in this business. Those that have it, while meeting other minimums, will get the job before those that don't.

The degree is a square that must be filled at most airlines. Get it as cheaply and quickly as possible, and get as much flying time as you can afford, or better yet, get someone else to pay for it.

Try to keep debt to a minimum.

I do sometimes regret not having done the whole "college" thing, but not when I look back at my career as a whole. Had I done that, I wouldn't have had the opportunities as early as I did, and wouldn't likely be where I am today, where I'll retire at #47 on an 8000 (currently) major airline pilot list.
 
Did you go to CCBC in beaver county? That's where I got my private and I took some summer aviation classes there! Live an hour away! And thank you for the advice

An hour in which direction? I used to live in that area.
 
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