Clock with no tick-tock

[mikea]

My wind-up panel clock is frozed. No amount of tapping or twiddling would get it running. It has been sticking lately. It was replaced when I bought the plane but that's nigh on 8 years now.

I suppose I can replace it with a Davtron electronic, but isn't there a requirement for a sweep second hand for IFR certification for the aircraft?

Has somebody made an electronic clock with an LCD or LED "hand?"

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Hey Mike... 121.305(c) says "a sweep-second hand clock (or approved equivalent)". It's the last part of that statement that lets you use the Davtron (it's all the newer Cessnas have).

If you really want to keep your sweep second hand clock, you can either buy a new one (under $100) or have a shop like this one rebuild it.

 

[poadeleted20]

Digital Davtron is fine. 14 CFR 91.205(c)(6): A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation. [emphasis added]

 

[weirdjim]

Take the clock into a dark room. Shine a bright light directly into its face. Say slowly with feeling, "Ve haf veys of making you tock."

Jim

 

[mikea]

Hey Mike... 121.305(c) says "a sweep-second hand clock (or approved equivalent)". It's the last part of that statement that lets you use the Davtron (it's all the newer Cessnas have).

If you really want to keep your sweep second hand clock, you can either buy a new one (under $100) or have a shop like this one rebuild it.

Digital Davtron is fine. 14 CFR 91.205(c)(6): A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation. [emphasis added]

THANKS.

It occurred to me that I really need an analog clock face. I think I can read it faster and I am used to remembering to switch tanks when the minute hand hits 12 and 6, although not so much that the minute hand points to the new tank.

I *might* be able to get there with the more capable digital clocks with a count-down timer.

Don't you also "need" the sweep second hand to see timed standard rate turns a little easier?

What I'm saying is I think it's a little easier to grok the second hand going to 12, 3, 6 or 9 than a number going to 0. Maybe not.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Mike, some people are visual thinkers... for them, analog presentations will always be easier. I like your idea of using cardinal positions as a reminder to switch tanks...

 

[Tom-D]

http://motors.search.ebay.com/clock...0QQsargnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ2QQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZbs

 

[jesse]

Personally, I think a digital clock is way easier. But I've been pretty much 'digital clock' my entire life--about the only analog clocks I've ever delt with were the ones in classrooms and at some companies.

When it comes to IFR flying I tend to forget where the sweep hand was. I find the precision of actual numbers way easier and less stressful.

I know some older generation people that can barely understand a digital clock and really rely on just glancing at the hand positions.

 

[mikea]

Personally, I think a digital clock is way easier. But I've been pretty much 'digital clock' my entire life--about the only analog clocks I've ever delt with were the ones in classrooms and at some companies.

When it comes to IFR flying I tend to forget where the sweep hand was. I find the precision of actual numbers way easier and less stressful.

I know some older generation people that can barely understand a digital clock and really rely on just glancing at the hand positions.

Watch it buddy, I'll slap you with my cane and... GET OFF MY LAWN!

Look up the wristwatches that sell for muckity thousands of dollars. Find me one with a digital face.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

I know some older generation people that can barely understand a digital clock and really rely on just glancing at the hand positions.

Damn it, Jesse! Knock that crap off! I am trying REAL HARD to ignore the fact that I am getting older. YOU'RE NOT HELPING!

 

[wby0nder]

Take the clock into a dark room. Shine a bright light directly into its face. Say slowly with feeling, "Ve haf veys of making you tock."

Jim

Well I for one thought that was good.

 

[poadeleted20]

Try timing 3 minutes 47 seconds for an instrument approach with a sweep hand. You'll want digital after that. Folks lose track of what minute they're on, or where the second hand will be at the MAP.

 

[jesse]

Try timing 3 minutes 47 seconds for an instrument approach with a sweep hand. You'll want digital after that. Folks lose track of what minute they're on, or where the second hand will be at the MAP.

Exactly. My stress level in training fell dramatically when I started to use a digital timer instead of the damn sweep hand.

 

[brcase]

Personally, I think a digital clock is way easier. But I've been pretty much 'digital clock' my entire life--about the only analog clocks I've ever delt with were the ones in classrooms and at some companies.

When it comes to IFR flying I tend to forget where the sweep hand was. I find the precision of actual numbers way easier and less stressful.

I know some older generation people that can barely understand a digital clock and really rely on just glancing at the hand positions.

I just learned I am in the old guy category and I purchased my 1st digital watch in high school and have been wearing one ever since. However I do like the analog clocks for instrument work. I found that just putting a tick mark on my note pad or AP in the direction of the 2nd hand was easier than writing or remembering 47 seconds. Additional tick marks easly keep track of the minutes.

The best clock I used had a resetable 2nd hand. The Davitron Digital does works well. However many Digital timers are difficult to reset reliably and quickly.

With the analog clock I find that if a pilot cant keep track of the minutes on it they are probably not including it in there scan or if they are the are, they just looking at it and not really interpreting what it is saying.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[jesse]

I just learned I am in the old guy category and I purchased my 1st digital watch in high school and have been wearing one ever since. However I do like the analog clocks for instrument work. I found that just putting a tick mark on my note pad or AP in the direction of the 2nd hand was easier than writing or remembering 47 seconds. Additional tick marks easly keep track of the minutes.

The best clock I used had a resetable 2nd hand. The Davitron Digital does works well. However many Digital timers are difficult to reset reliably and quickly.

With the analog clock I find that if a pilot cant keep track of the minutes on it they are probably not including it in there scan or if they are the are, they just looking at it and not really interpreting what it is saying.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

I never considered just marking tick marks--which would probably help and I appreciate the tip.

That said, to me, it would still be too much work to time something like 3 minutes and 47 seconds. I find it very difficult to read the minute position as the scale is just too small.

Yes, I could watch the second hand go around and keep track of each minute that went by. The problem is--I don't trust myself to not get distracted. I find it much easier to just push a button on the digital clock and know for sure how long its been.

The panelmount digital clocks I've used are pretty simple. Push it once and it starts counting. Push it again and it resets and starts counting from zero again.

 

[Everskyward]

Yes, I could watch the second hand go around and keep track of each minute that went by. The problem is--I don't trust myself to not get distracted. I find it much easier to just push a button on the digital clock and know for sure how long its been.

I've always found digital timers to be easier too and I'm old.

The thing that took a little getting used to for me were digital airspeed and altitude displayed on tapes. I found out that I must have been using the relative position of the hands to tell me if I was close.

 

[jesse]

I've always found digital timers to be easier too and I'm old.

Everyone is taking my old comment wrong--lol. I meant *really* old. I was referring to some people I know or have known that are 90 year old plus and just cannot hardly understand a digital clock but completely get an analog clock.

 

[weirdjim]

I have a "clock" with hours:minutes obtained from the Aviation hardware department at Radio Shack.

I have a velcro-to-the-panel West Bend kitchen count-up or count-down timer for instrument approaches. If it was good enough for us on the Voyager project as a fuel tank timer, it is good enough for me.

Jim

 

[gismo]

Look up the wristwatches that sell for muckity thousands of dollars. Find me one with a digital face.

This one goes for over 100k British pounds:

http://automotivem.com/automotive/de-grisogono-meccanico-dg/

Then again it's a mechanical digital watch so maybe it shoudn't count.

 

[Stache]

Digital Davtron is fine. 14 CFR 91.205(c)(6): A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation. [emphasis added]

Ron is right about this. If you replace it with a clock that ties into the eletrical system which many do you may need a 337. This one is a no brainer if tied into the proper circuit protection device. Some FSDO's will call this a minor alteration only requiring a record entry by the A&P/IA. Some owners want a 337 for CYA. The 337 is very simple and is usually signed off the same day from a field inspector. Or you can replace it with the same type of clock (wind-up) and its only a record entry indicating replacement clock with part number xyz.

Just one man's opinion.

 

[flyersfan31]

Everyone is taking my old comment wrong--lol. I meant *really* old. I was referring to some people I know or have known that are 90 year old plus and just cannot hardly understand a digital clock but completely get an analog clock.

I knew what you were saying, and I agree with you 100%. I tried using the analog in the panel of my old Sundowner. Not so fun. Velcroed a digital timer to the panel, problem solved. It's hard NOT to know 3:47 has elapsed when you see the numbers "3:47" staring at you from the panel!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I knew what you were saying, and I agree with you 100%. I tried using the analog in the panel of my old Sundowner. Not so fun. Velcroed a digital timer to the panel, problem solved. It's hard NOT to know 3:47 has elapsed when you see the numbers "3:47" staring at you from the panel!

Or you punch 3:47 in before you start. It's even easier when you see "00:00" and the dang thing is beeping incessantly.

 

[wabower]

Mom is 95. She was in ICU for a while earlier this year, outcome very much in doubt. One day she asked me how to figure out the big digital clock, did she have to add 10 or something? I told her to subtract 12, and she said "Oh, so 1412 up there means it's really 2:12 pm? I said yep and thought she might pull through after all. And she did. And for the rest of her stay she knew what time it was.

Everyone is taking my old comment wrong--lol. I meant *really* old. I was referring to some people I know or have known that are 90 year old plus and just cannot hardly understand a digital clock but completely get an analog clock.

 

[skyflyer8]

I have a velcro-to-the-panel West Bend kitchen count-up or count-down timer for instrument approaches.

Me too. And in our rental planes, it seems no one has standardized which way the velcro should go.

 

[ScottM]

I know some older generation people that can barely understand a digital clock and really rely on just glancing at the hand positions.

I have not run into that, but I have run into having young kids (<12 years old) ask me the time and I show them my watch and they tell me they cannot read that type of clock.

 

[Terry]

Hi All:

Did you know that "digital" clocks are made using "analog" parts?

Being a "senior citizen" I wear an analog wrist watch. During my timed approached I use a digital timer.

That makes me a "multifunctional senior citizen."

My "airplane" clocks are all analog and don't work any better than the one in my old car. However, it does read the correct time twice each day.

Terry

 

[poadeleted20]

Me too. And in our rental planes, it seems no one has standardized which way the velcro should go.

I have both fuzzy and hooked velcro patches stuck to the yoke of the sim I use for PIC training -- that way, the client can stick his/her clock on no matter which velcro s/he has on the clock.

 

[mikea]

Hi All:

Did you know that "digital" clocks are made using "analog" parts?

???? The clock can be digital, i.e. TTL, from the quartz crystal to the display. Maybe the quartz time source is "analog."

Being a "senior citizen" I wear an analog wrist watch. During my timed approached I use a digital timer.

That makes me a "multifunctional senior citizen."

My "airplane" clocks are all analog and don't work any better than the one in my old car. However, it does read the correct time twice each day.

Terry

My Tag Heuer chronograph is analog, too, of course. My point that high end watches aren't built around $19 digital displays.

My experience so far has been doing a few timed turns under the hood, where I thought there was a use for envisioning the seconds hand pointing at the degrees, ala the Lindbergh watch. I guess I got that the wrong impression.

I'm reminded that I bought a Radio Shack digital timer for the plane early on but it wouldn't stay alive, even after replacing it once. I never got a round tuit to try to fix the battery connector or whatever was not working.

 

[gismo]

???? The clock can be digital, i.e. TTL, from the quartz crystal to the display. Maybe the quartz time source is "analog."

"Digital" has taken on the meaning of "electronic" for many folks even though the two words are nowhere near synonymous. You can have analog electronics and mechanical digital mechanisms. You can have a raster display of an analog instrument (analog clock image on a LCD display) and there is an analog aspect to all "digital" electronics.

For me, a "digital" watch or clock has numeric digits instead of hands that move or appear to move.

 

[Ghery]

???? The clock can be digital, i.e. TTL, from the quartz crystal to the display. Maybe the quartz time source is "analog."

It is this misconception (among others) that helps keep EMC engineers like me employed. All a digital gate is is an analog amplifer with LOTS of gain, running off or saturated.

And then there are the designers who don't think digital signals are RF. And professors who, when introducing new circuit elements, start off by saying, "neglecting fringe effects.. ". I LOVE those guys. EMC is the science of fringe effects and as long as people think they can ignore them, I'll never be unemployed.

 

[mikea]

It is this misconception (among others) that helps keep EMC engineers like me employed. All a digital gate is is an analog amplifer with LOTS of gain, running off or saturated.

And then there are the designers who don't think digital signals are RF. And professors who, when introducing new circuit elements, start off by saying, "neglecting fringe effects.. ". I LOVE those guys. EMC is the science of fringe effects and as long as people think they can ignore them, I'll never be unemployed.

Yeah, OK, I think I get it. At some point all of those 1 and 0 signals start going fast enough you can get them in your fillings.

 

[ScottM]

And then there are the designers who don't think digital signals are RF.

I love the guys that think that digital wireless transmission means that you are propagating square waves of ones and zeros (like Morse code CW) as opposed to the old analog sine waves.

 

[mikea]

I love the guys that think that digital wireless transmission means that you are propagating square waves of ones and zeros (like Morse code CW) as opposed to the old analog sine waves.

You mean....you ain't?

 

[ScottM]

You mean....you ain't?

Nope.

We can talk about Gausian Mean Shift Keying of analog sine waves if you like. That is really popular in the telcom world of deployed systems right now.

True story.

I had a very annoying purchasing agent that I had to work with and made him source a digital antenna for a radio we were designing. I told him the old analog antennas would not work and that we need to get one that would handle digital radio waves. It took him weeks of phone calls and kept him far away from our project.

 

[Trapper John]

I had a very annoying purchasing agent that I had to work with and made him source a digital antenna for a radio we were designing. I told him the old analog antennas would not work and that we need to get one that would handle digital radio waves. It took him weeks of phone calls and kept him far away from our project.

Hey, a modern version of sending the new kid after a left-handed wrench!


Trapper John

 

[mikea]

"Digital" has taken on the meaning of "electronic" for many folks even though the two words are nowhere near synonymous. You can have analog electronics and mechanical digital mechanisms. You can have a raster display of an analog instrument (analog clock image on a LCD display) and there is an analog aspect to all "digital" electronics.

For me, a "digital" watch or clock has numeric digits instead of hands that move or appear to move.

It is this misconception (among others) that helps keep EMC engineers like me employed. All a digital gate is is an analog amplifer with LOTS of gain, running off or saturated.

And then there are the designers who don't think digital signals are RF. And professors who, when introducing new circuit elements, start off by saying, "neglecting fringe effects.. ". I LOVE those guys. EMC is the science of fringe effects and as long as people think they can ignore them, I'll never be unemployed.

Here I am pontificating based on my messing around with electronics since I was 6 and going into business and having one entire college digital logic course and I have to be shown up by actual engineers.

That's it!

I'm out.

(I had EE school clear through one semester, too, ya know.)