Cleared as filed...

Free at last!!! :yes:

And cleared through the Class Bravo as well -- how'd you manage that?
 
Expect the old "Stand by for amended clearance"
I have had flight plans beyond counting that cleared me through the Detroit B on the airway.
Never got past Flint even once before I received the message - pack your lunch and check your gas because you are now on the scenic tour.
 
East downwind transition to HEF. Pretty standard stuff, it goes right over my house (in fact, if that guy who crashed into the building off the toll road had a few minutes more fuel, he might have made it to my house).
 
rpadula said:
Free at last!!! :yes:

And cleared through the Class Bravo as well -- how'd you manage that?
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I know Atlanta airspace is different, but they sent me over KATL the other day, and I was a little surprised. That's the only time they've vectored me right down the middle of Bravo.
 
rpadula said:
And cleared through the Class Bravo as well -- how'd you manage that?
Click to expand...

Potomac is pretty generous with the Dulles east downwind transition. They're friendly folk in general in my experience...
 
rbridges said:
I know Atlanta airspace is different, but they sent me over KATL the other day, and I was a little surprised. That's the only time they've vectored me right down the middle of Bravo.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I got that exactly once when flying from Columbus back to Lawrenceville years ago. It was a neat surprise and my passengers loved it! I subsequently found out from controllers they have N-S routes directly over at 5000, 5500, and 6000.

Good to hear they're still doing it, even with the ATL Class B reconfig. :cheerswine:
 
rpadula said:
Yeah, I got that exactly once when flying from Columbus back to Lawrenceville years ago. It was a neat surprise and my passengers loved it! I subsequently found out from controllers they have N-S routes directly over at 5000, 5500, and 6000.

Good to hear they're still doing it, even with the ATL Class B reconfig. :cheerswine:
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that's exactly it. Flying directly south at 5000. it was pretty cool seeing the commercial jets waiting in line and got to see a couple land beneath me on the runway.
 
Back in the pre-911 days, AML (the onfield VORTAC at IAD) and BWI were often in the routings. Actually the last IFR clearance I got down from the Boston area actually had JFK (VOR on field) and IAD (the airport not AML the VORTAC) as part of the route. Ain't GPS wonderful.
 
flyingron said:
East downwind transition to HEF. Pretty standard stuff, it goes right over my house (in fact, if that guy who crashed into the building off the toll road had a few minutes more fuel, he might have made it to my house).
Click to expand...

The only surprises were:

1) cleared for the east transition at BTV before takeoff (usually not given until I hit Potomac airspace) and
2) no amendments to the clearance (other than adding TICON).

Still a good day

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
I typically get "cleared as filed" for my cross state jaunts. Of course, it gets amended along the way to a direct clearance that saves me time, but I don't complain about those changes. :D
 
My clearance from my field is always direct CSN (about 5 miles north of the field which ever way I'm going) and then as filed but as soon as I get Approach on the radio I get direct to the destination or the next reasonable fix.
 
What was the flight time Bill? Also how did she fly after the , what was it 5 month annual?
 
flyingron said:
My clearance from my field is always direct CSN (about 5 miles north of the field which ever way I'm going) and then as filed but as soon as I get Approach on the radio I get direct to the destination or the next reasonable fix.
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It's really variable for me. I'm HEF-based... on the way up, I filed the ARSNL departure, MRB, then direct, and was assigned a full route clearance via airways. Once I hit MRB, Potomac gave me some shortcuts, and NY Center gave me direct DNY. Boston cut me no breaks and I ended up on airways from DNY to KBTV. OTOH, there are other times where I've been given the east side transition outbound & then direct to Pennsylvania, upstate NY or New England. Potomac is really good about shortcuts once they have you in radar contact on the ARSNL departure. Going west & SW, I almost always get direct to a distant point once I'm clear of IAD arrivals.

Coming back from the northeast, Potomac will often assign the east side, but the initial clearance will be over MRB. This was the first time I've been cleared for the east side arrival upon departure in a different "center" airspace.

I love it when Potomac sends me directly over Camp David to MULRR.

AdamZ said:
What was the flight time Bill? Also how did she fly after the , what was it 5 month annual?
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Adam, it was about 3:15 wheels-up to wheels-down thanks to a (relative) lot of traffic at KBTV. And it was only 3 months... :sad:
 
How likely is one to be able to get into the IAD/BWI/DCA class-Bs if one is VFR?

I'm a student, planning XCs, and in some cases I'd like to fly the East Downwind to get to the North, other cases I plan on going around DCA to the south to get to something like ACY, but it would be easier if I could cut through DCA's outer or second ring of airspace.

How likely is any of this to happen? Or should I just stay clear of everything? I have a 430W in the plane, FWIW, so I can fly a route like the East Downwind.

I'm based at CJR, in case you want to try to visualize what I'm doing.
 
It's not assured, but you have a good chance if you call up appropriately to ask and get a east downwind transition. Obviously you need to stay clear of the FRZ and otherwise follow the SFRA rules. They've also just let me cut the corner coming around the west side as well. I've also landed IAD a number of times without a real incident. Of course, you need to be prepared to fly around the west side if you get turned down.

BWI depends on what part you're trying to get through. Usually overflying the city isn't a problem. Squeezed into between BWI and the FRZ is however if the route works out you can go straight over the top of BWI.

DCA environs is a bit more dicey as much of it is covered up by the FRZ. Still you can ask.

I'm also based at CJR.
 
AirDC said:
Ron or Bill - Have you ever heard of anyone flying VFR at 1400 through that .1-.2 mi wide gap (about 6 miles long) between the IAD Class B SFC and the FRZ without a bravo clearance? I know its a recipe for bad day if you get even the slightest off course - just curious as to whether or not it it's ever been done.

http://skyvector.com/?ll=38.9044838...8.86561095914896,-77.31762966599754:A.K6.KHEF
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If you're going to do that, just ask for the Dulles East downwind transition & Class B clearance. The gap is simply too narrow & you run the risk of trouble really quickly (what happens if their radar doesn't match your GPS)?

Even with a great GPS I wouldn't want to try it without a clearance.

I suppose someone has tried, but if so, I don't know them and I've not heard of them being successful.
 
livitup said:
How likely is one to be able to get into the IAD/BWI/DCA class-Bs if one is VFR?
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Into? No problem. Through? Big problem.

Essentially, there is no problem at all getting into the Class B under VFR to land at one of the airports where the B-space goes to the surface (e.g., BWI and IAD). However, they do not often give clearance through the Class B VFR to get from one side to the other. So, if I'm going from Easton MD (KESN) to Gaithersburg MD (KGAI) VFR, my choices will usually be going up around the northeast corner by Martin State (MTN), or cutting through the so-called "Fort Meade Gap" between the FRZ and the BWI surface area, either way staying below the B-space. Once in a while, when things are very quiet, they may let me go straight over the top of BWI at 6500, then dive down to GAI once clear of the BWI arrival/departure paths, maybe even at 4500, but that's about it.

I'm a student, planning XCs,
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I'm sure you realize that as a Student Pilot, you'll need training from your instructor in this Class B Airspace and a special endorsement to enter the Baltimore-Washington Tri-Area Class B Airspace. In any event, never count on being able to go through the Class B from one side to the other VFR -- always have a plan B ready if they say "remain clear of Class Bravo airspace."
 
AirDC said:
Ron or Bill - Have you ever heard of anyone flying VFR at 1400 through that .1-.2 mi wide gap (about 6 miles long) between the IAD Class B SFC and the FRZ without a bravo clearance? I know its a recipe for bad day if you get even the slightest off course - just curious as to whether or not it it's ever been done.

http://skyvector.com/?ll=38.9044838...8.86561095914896,-77.31762966599754:A.K6.KHEF
Click to expand...
There is no such gap -- what you see is an illusion. Attempting to exploit that non-existent gap will result in big trouble for you.
 
AirDC said:
Ron or Bill - Have you ever heard of anyone flying VFR at 1400 through that .1-.2 mi wide gap (about 6 miles long) between the IAD Class B SFC and the FRZ without a bravo clearance? I know its a recipe for bad day if you get even the slightest off course - just curious as to whether or not it it's ever been done.

http://skyvector.com/?ll=38.9044838...8.86561095914896,-77.31762966599754:A.K6.KHEF
Click to expand...

No, I have not been through that flyway since before 9/11. I don't want to get that close to the FRZ without authorization.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm sure you realize that as a Student Pilot, you'll need training from your instructor in this Class B Airspace and a special endorsement to enter the Baltimore-Washington Tri-Area Class B Airspace. In any event, never count on being able to go through the Class B from one side to the other VFR -- always have a plan B ready if they say "remain clear of Class Bravo airspace."
Click to expand...

Yes, and it is the beginning of this instruction that made me bring up this question. But the more that I play with the chart and a plotter, I realize it's only adding about 5 miles to even the worst case trip (like KCJR to W29) to stay in the 3500-floor bands, instead of cutting closer. I'll just putter along under those, and I'll be fine. When I first looked at the map I thought "It's going to add hours to go around all that airspace", but after plotting a few sample trips each way, I realize it just isn't so.

So my plan would to be to fly at 2500-3000 and stay in the shelves with a 3500 floor, either to the north of IAD/BWI or the south of DCA. Sound reasonable? And yes, I'll be going over all this with my CFI.
 
flyingron said:
It's not assured, but you have a good chance if you call up appropriately to ask and get a east downwind transition. Obviously you need to stay clear of the FRZ and otherwise follow the SFRA rules. They've also just let me cut the corner coming around the west side as well. I've also landed IAD a number of times without a real incident. Of course, you need to be prepared to fly around the west side if you get turned down.

BWI depends on what part you're trying to get through. Usually overflying the city isn't a problem. Squeezed into between BWI and the FRZ is however if the route works out you can go straight over the top of BWI.

DCA environs is a bit more dicey as much of it is covered up by the FRZ. Still you can ask.

I'm also based at CJR.
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Thanks! I keep forgetting that you're also here. Any experience cutting into the B on the South-East side of DCA? I've got inlaws that way and I'm trying to figure the easiest way to get there (probably into W00). Since you're landing at an airport in their 'B', are they somewhat more obligated (I know that they are under no official obligation, but I assume they would work with you) to get you in?
 
livitup said:
Thanks! I keep forgetting that you're also here. Any experience cutting into the B on the South-East side of DCA? I've got inlaws that way and I'm trying to figure the easiest way to get there (probably into W00). Since you're landing at an airport in their 'B', are they somewhat more obligated (I know that they are under no official obligation, but I assume they would work with you) to get you in?
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Y'all be careful about going into W00. The fact that if you drift west on final you're in the FRZ doesn't help (ditto going a bit long on downwind for 36), and you have to be pretty careful just entering the pattern (not much room below the B-space floor). Again, arriving from the west VFR, you are not going to be allowed to cut through the B-space as they have too much air carrier traffic going in and out of DCA. Have a long talk with your instructor about options on this one, and try to make this a dual XC the first time you try it.
 
Thanks for the warning, Ron... I see on the sectional how tight it is to the FRZ. This will not be a student XC destination, but it's a possibility when I'm licensed. When the time comes, I'll ask around on the DC Pilots group to see if anyone experienced with the place would be willing to ride with me before I try it for real.
 
livitup said:
Thanks for the warning, Ron... I see on the sectional how tight it is to the FRZ. This will not be a student XC destination, but it's a possibility when I'm licensed. When the time comes, I'll ask around on the DC Pilots group to see if anyone experienced with the place would be willing to ride with me before I try it for real.
Click to expand...
Good plan.
 
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