Clearance Relay

Velocity173

Velocity173

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Velocity173
So I was going through a Boldmethod quiz the other day on picking up a clearance off a non-towered field. One of the answers was to get your clearance relayed from an overhead aircraft. Was wondering from any of the controllers @Radar Contact @Jmcmanna) if you’ve done this in real life?
 
Clip4 said:
While not impossible, very rare event.
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Well, I know it happens just wondering what they think of the practice. While not wholly prohibited, does “ATC clears” apply in this case. I think there could be some repercussions if the pilot took a wrong heading / altitude on departure and crashed.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well, I know it happens just wondering what they think of the practice. While not wholly prohibited, does “ATC clears” apply in this case. I think there could be some repercussions if the pilot took a wrong heading / altitude on departure and crashed.
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Yeah, I've relayed a cancellation by an aircraft on the ground, but I'm not sure I'd feel too good about issuing an actual clearance to someone.
 
Velocity173 said:
So I was going through a Boldmethod quiz the other day on picking up a clearance off a non-towered field. One of the answers was to get your clearance relayed from an overhead aircraft. Was wondering from any of the controllers @Radar Contact @Jmcmanna) if you’ve done this in real life?
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I’ve done it. It was at Lemoore, KNLC, back in BC(before cellphones). The owners of some of those airports out to the Southeast were regular customers. I remember once this happening, that one of them airborne said another was on the ground wanting a Clearance. I think the weather sneaked up on him, knew his buddy was up there talking to us and asked him if he could get it from us for him. Not sure of the legality of this but I did it. Saved him having to shut down and walk back to the house to call us on the phone.
 
I’ve never done it in real life. I am had cancellations relayed through other aircraft, but have never done it the other way around.
 
Never had the opportunity to do such, have passed on cancellations.
 
I was forced to ask a friend to relay my clearance to get out of Columbia, CA (O22) once. We were both on the ground with five minute separation on our clearances, and mine expired because he was delayed. He felt bad and called the (NON RADAR back then) approach control and had ATC relay my updated void time.

That airport was a pain back in those days before RNAV Obstacle Departure Procedures!
 
Would require ATC to accept some liability, as they cannot hear if it was read back correctly.
Would likewise require some risk by the pilot receiving clearance as s/he would not know the relaying pilot was giving it correctly; and would not have confirmation of a correct readback by ATC.
I can imagine either party not partaking because of this.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Would require ATC to accept some liability, as they cannot hear if it was read back correctly.
Would likewise require some risk by the pilot receiving clearance as s/he would not know the relaying pilot was giving it correctly; and would not have confirmation of a correct readback by ATC.
I can imagine either party not partaking because of this.
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Yeah. I wouldn't have done it the time I did if they weren't regular customers who I knew I could trust.
 
I've not done this, but I have gotten a release from a nearby tower when the tower at the airport I was departing was closed. The flight data guy at SCT actually encouraged this if I couldn't get a hold of one of the air frequencies, as opposed to calling back on the phone.
 
It’s a sign of the times, country, and world we live in. Our responses have to do with legal liability rather than helping a guy out.

I’m not saying I would do different, I’m just taking a step back and looking at ourselves.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
It’s a sign of the times, country, and world we live in. Our responses have to do with legal liability rather than helping a guy out.

I’m not saying I would do different, I’m just taking a step back and looking at ourselves.
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My response would have exactly zero to do with liability concerns. If asked I would relay the clearance.

I have not been in the clearance relay situation but I was in an IFR emergency where I was below line of sight ATC communications and a passing aircraft relayed back and forth. Glad he wasn't paranoid about liability :rolleyes:
 
I have operated as a relay aircraft while VFR over the Columbia River and talking with Portland approach as I had flight following. It was a rather long conversation with the plane under me on the ground...

I was glad I had two radios.

Three readbacks for every communication with long delays... Amusing really.

" November 1234 ummm... Can you call a plane on the ground for us?"
 
Sometimes you can't even get one ATC facility to relay clearances for another. I can raise ZTL on the ground at my house, but I'm just a few miles within CLT's airspace. ZTL was willing to try to relay a clearance from CLT, but CLT wouldn't have it. Had similar problems between HEF and IAD.

The most interesting clearance relay I got was when we were evacuating out of VKX after 9/11. Dave Wartofsky (airport manager) called up the TRACON and got a dozen void time clearances spaced out and then sat there with a radio and watch and orchestrated us onto the runway and gave us takeoff "clearance" so we'd pop into the system at the right time.
 
Not a controller, but I’ve picked up and canceled this way before up north where there is little reception down low
 
flyingron said:
Sometimes you can't even get one ATC facility to relay clearances for another. I can raise ZTL on the ground at my house, but I'm just a few miles within CLT's airspace. ZTL was willing to try to relay a clearance from CLT, but CLT wouldn't have it. Had similar problems between HEF and IAD.

The most interesting clearance relay I got was when we were evacuating out of VKX after 9/11. Dave Wartofsky (airport manager) called up the TRACON and got a dozen void time clearances spaced out and then sat there with a radio and watch and orchestrated us onto the runway and gave us takeoff "clearance" so we'd pop into the system at the right time.
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How long after? Why were you evacuating?
 
luvflyin said:
How long after? Why were you evacuating?
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Five weeks after 9/11. It was the first opportunity that aircraft based there were allowed to move out. Interestingly, upon takeoff I realized my static system was plugged. ATC told me to stop altitude squawk and exit the airspace. Flew up to OKV where I had already staked out an interim parking space at the end of one of the tiedown rows.

I was one of the first group to get DC-3 clearances but I never actually moved my plane back there because by the time everything settled down, I had gotten a hangar at CJR.
 
I did it a few times in Alaska, both relaying and receiving relayed clearances. When I received a relayed clearance my practice was as soon as I could talk to center I would clarify the clearance. Which was usually ''once at xxx altitude cleared direct destination''.

But in Class G airspace it was normal to take off (after checking for any inbound traffic) and pick up clearance in the air.
 
I was asked to relay once to an aircraft on the ground below me. If I had to guess, it was initiated by them via cell phone. Controller was just seeing if it would work better for them.

Middle of nowhere eastern Nevada. Daytime. Was just a departure clearance via runway heading, an altitude, and a squawk along with a drop dead time. The usual stuff.

Ground aircraft seemed surprised when I called on the CTAF.
 
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