Clearance Delivery from non-towered field (KUAO/KPDX)?

DesertNomad

DesertNomad

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DesertNomad
I am looking at a trip KRNO to KUAO (Aurora, OR).

In Foreflight, KUAO has a Clearance frequency of 119.95, but no tower. For the flight KUAO-KRNO, if I want flight following, would I call call Portland Clearance on 119.95 while still on the ground and ask for a squawk code and flight following to KRNO?

The A/FD lists both APP/DEP control and Clearance but KAUO is outside Portland Class C… so I should not have to talk to Clearance at all if I didn't want to.

I just haven't seen this situation here in Nevada.
 
Are you looking for VFR flight following? If so then you would call Portland Approach on 126.0 once airborne.
 
For VFR operations, you can call the remote CD freq prior to departure, but generally if you're not heading straight into the C-space, they'll just tell you to call airborne on whatever freq is appropriate for your direction of flight. However, it can't hurt to ask if you want to pick up flight following on departure. It will certainly help you determine the correct frequency to call once airborne, and that makes it worth the electrons spent. You can certainly skip that call if you feel like it as long as you realize that may make it a bit harder to get in touch with them once airborne.
 
So why is Clearance Delivery listed for KUAO? KRTS (Reno/Stead) doesn't have a CD freq. listed, even though KRNO 10 miles away in the Class C has one.
 
When I tried exactly what you're requesting from KVUO (also in the Portland area), the response was "contact Seattle Center when airborne."
 
DesertNomad said:
So why is Clearance Delivery listed for KUAO? KRTS (Reno/Stead) doesn't have a CD freq. listed, even though KRNO 10 miles away in the Class C has one.
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Probably has to do with radio reception on the ground.
 
CTLSi said:
KRNO is not Reno/Stead, Its Reno/Tahoe Intl. Contact Norcal Approach on 119.2 when you get into Nevada...

http://www.aopa.org/airports/KRNO#comms
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Yes, I know. I live in Reno. I was flying at KRTS this morning.

I just thought it was strange that KRTS does not have CD, but KUAO does, since they are similarly positioned in regard to the local Class C (KRNO and KPDX respectively). When would one use CD from KUAO since I have never talked to anyone but CTAF at KRTS?
 
DesertNomad said:
Yes, I know. I live in Reno. I was flying at KRTS this morning.

I just thought it was strange that KRTS does not have CD, but KUAO does, since they are similarly positioned in regard to the local Class C (KRNO and KPDX respectively). When would one use CD from KUAO since I have never talked to anyone but CTAF at KRTS?
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Generally CD is for IFR flights because they "shut the airport down" for you to get out in poor visibility. As far as geographic similarity to the class C, well you aren't getting your clearance from the class C, you are getting it from Norcal tracon.
 
DesertNomad said:
Yes, I know. I live in Reno. I was flying at KRTS this morning.

I just thought it was strange that KRTS does not have CD, but KUAO does, since they are similarly positioned in regard to the local Class C (KRNO and KPDX respectively). When would one use CD from KUAO since I have never talked to anyone but CTAF at KRTS?
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Something of a swag:

I'm guessing it has to do with the agreements at the respective locations and who has control of which airspace where. You'd have to compare the letter agreement between approach and center in Reno with the one between approach and center in Portland. I don't think they're all the same.
 
DesertNomad said:
Yes, I know. I live in Reno. I was flying at KRTS this morning.

I just thought it was strange that KRTS does not have CD, but KUAO does, since they are similarly positioned in regard to the local Class C (KRNO and KPDX respectively). When would one use CD from KUAO since I have never talked to anyone but CTAF at KRTS?
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Don't you call Norcal Approach (north frequency) when leaving KRTS and flying thru KRNO Class C?
 
Ok so I think I have your question solved. Looking at Airnav for your two airports shows the following. KRTS has about 111 aircraft on the field where as KUAO has 446. The most likely reason you have to phone Norcal tracon is because they wanted to free up the ATC at Portland for the much higher traffic flying out of KUAO. That theory is the main reason for the Norcal Tracon, to ease the work load of ATC.
 
CTLSi said:
Don't you call Norcal Approach (north frequency) when leaving KRTS and flying thru KRNO Class C?
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Yes, but you would never call Clearance Delivery. You'd takeoff from Stead, get out of the pattern, then call Norcal to go to KRNO and eventually be handed off to tower.

I get the reason to call APP/DEP whn entering the CLass C, but why the CD?

When I am departing KRNO, I call CD before taxi to get a Squawk and Departure Freq (Norcal). Why would I ever call CD at KUAO? Even assuming I was going to fly into the PDX Class C I would think I should just takeoff on CTAF, then call Portland Approach in the air.
 
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DesertNomad said:
Yes, but you would never call Clearance Delivery. You'd takeoff from Stead, get out of the pattern, then call Norcal to go to KRNO and eventually be handed off to tower.

I get the reason to call APP/DEP whn entering the CLass C, but why the CD?

When I am departing KRNO, I call CD before taxi to get a Squawk and Departure Freq (Norcal). Why would I ever call CD at KUAO? Even assuming I was going to fly into the PDX Class C I would think I should just takeoff on CTAF, then call Portland Approach in the air.
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CD is a field service. If there is no tower, there is no CD. So I agree, I am not sure what the guy is asking about... If he is leaving a non towered, he simply makes his Unicom calls and gets high enough before contacting ARTCC in his departure area. If they agree and give him flight following, he will get handed off to Oakland center when he gets into Nevada - or he could verify the handoff by calling them enroute. If they don't, as VFR traffic, he can still call Oakland ARTCC when he gets close enough to Reno and ask for it. Otherwide, like most of us who fly VFR across the wilderness, he is on his own. He should make sure he files a flight plan though, that way they will look for him if he goes down on the way to Reno.
 
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It could have to do with radio range. I see there is some high terrain southeast of KRTS. That could be the reason. On AirNav it says contact NorCal at "such and such phone number" for clearance delivery on the ground at KRTS.

If you are VFR and getting flight following, you don't have to worry about it. Just contact approach in the air to get flight following. Those clearance delivery phone numbers/frequencies are for IFR clearances.

My home airport didn't have a clearance delivery frequency published, but you were pretty close to the class C airport that you could get the approach controller on the ground using the local app./dep. frequency to pick up your IFR clearance.
 
DesertNomad said:
Yes, but you would never call Clearance Delivery. You'd takeoff from Stead, get out of the pattern, then call Norcal to go to KRNO and eventually be handed off to tower.

I get the reason to call APP/DEP whn entering the CLass C, but why the CD?

When I am departing KRNO, I call CD before taxi to get a Squawk and Departure Freq (Norcal). Why would I ever call CD at KUAO? Even assuming I was going to fly into the PDX Class C I would think I should just takeoff on CTAF, then call Portland Approach in the air.
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I'm not sure how many times we have to say it, but CD is for IFR and is required before taking off in IFR weather.
 
DesertNomad said:
The A/FD for KUAO lists UNICOM and CD, but no tower.
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Correct. If you read further in my post, I said he should make his Unicom calls, then when he gets enough altitude, call ARTCC for that area and ask for flight following, Usually you do that right after calling FSS and activating the VFR flight plan.

Then when he gets into Oakland ARTCC range, switch to them unless he gets handed over.
 
Sorry - you had said "CD is a field service. If there is no tower, there is no CD."

I understand how it works - just something I had not seen before.
 
Grum.Man said:
I'm not sure how many times we have to say it, but CD is for IFR and is required before taking off in IFR weather.
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Not true. CD is for VFR also. You dont get CRAFT for VFR, but you do get a squawk code, a clearance for the direction and altitude requested, and a frequency to contact once the tower releases you.

You also have to read back the clearance and get the 'readback correct' from CD under regulation.
 
DesertNomad said:
Sorry - you had said "CD is a field service. If there is no tower, there is no CD."

I understand how it works - just something I had not seen before.
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Sorry, sometimes i use the term 'field' and 'field service' for the various services from ATC...it's a bad habit.
 
CTLSi said:
Not true. CD is for VFR also. You dont get CRAFT for VFR, but you do get a squawk code, a clearance for the direction and altitude requested, and a frequency to contact once the tower releases you.

You also have to read back the clearance and get the 'readback correct' from CD under regulation.
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Sometimes.

CD is used for VFR departures at some -- definitely not all -- Class C airports and a few Class D's. The one in question is nontowered.

If you contact CD at Oakland and ask for a VFR departure, they will tell you to give your request to Ground.
 
CTLSi said:
CD is a field service. If there is no tower, there is no CD.
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That isn't entirely true. DEN provides CD for FTG when FTG's tower is closed.
 
Grum.Man said:
Ok so I think I have your question solved. Looking at Airnav for your two airports shows the following. KRTS has about 111 aircraft on the field where as KUAO has 446. The most likely reason you have to phone Norcal tracon is because they wanted to free up the ATC at Portland for the much higher traffic flying out of KUAO. That theory is the main reason for the Norcal Tracon, to ease the work load of ATC.
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That is indeed the best answer. It's a traffic management issue.
 
DesertNomad said:
So why is Clearance Delivery listed for KUAO? KRTS (Reno/Stead) doesn't have a CD freq. listed, even though KRNO 10 miles away in the Class C has one.
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Not every nontowered airport has a remote comm outlet. Note that in these cases, you're not communicating directly with the CD on the C-airport as you would if you were at that C-airport, but rather via a remote transmitter/receiver located with an antenna on the remote airport and wired into the TRACON so they can speak to you on the ground at the remote airport without relying on ground wave propagation from the C-airport.
 
CTLSi said:
CD is a field service. If thee is no tower, there is no CD.
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Not so. There are many nontowered airports with remote CD via a transmitter/receiver/antenna on the nontowered airport wired to the TRACON at the "main" airport. Two around here off the top of my head are Georgetown DE (KGED) wired to Philadelphia Approach and Gaithersburg MD (KGAI) wired to Potomac Approach. In fact, when the tower here at Salisbury MD (KSBY) is closed, there's an RCO to get you clearance from Patuxent Approach, and when Patuxent is also closed, from Washington Center.
 
Grum.Man said:
I'm not sure how many times we have to say it, but CD is for IFR and is required before taking off in IFR weather.
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CD at nontowered airports can also be for VFR. For example, it's real handy for getting your DC SFRA squawk when departing Gaithersburg MD (KGAI) VFR. It can also be useful if you need to know which of several published TRACON freq's is the correct one to pick up flight following after takeoff.
 
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