Clearance Delivery for VFR Class B Transition

P

Pappy

Pre-Flight
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
65
Display Name
Display name:
Pappy
So, I'm trying to figure out the fastest, safest, and most efficient way to depart VFR southbound from KPDK (Peachtree Dekalb Airport in Atlanta). If you're not familiar, this airport sits under the bravo shelf about 15NM NE of KATL, and departing southbound gives about 10NM before you hit the surface airspace surrounding KATL.

So... I'm trying to depart VFR out of KPDK, heading to the south side of Atlanta, and want a Bravo clearance (presumably to go over-the-top). Is this something I can call clearance delivery for or somehow otherwise request prior to takeoff? I can certainly do it in the air, but there is a lot of traffic in that very compressed airspace and sometimes Atlanta just takes a few minutes to work out the clearance....sounds like a recipe for busting the Bravo...or worse.

Anyone have any experience with this? Especially at this specific airport?

Here's a link to the chart for reference...

http://skyvector.com/?ll=33.7212176...182&chart=301&zoom=2&plan=A.K7.KPDK:A.K7.KATL
 
Call em on the phone and ask them what times/altitudes are good for getting a southbound VFR clearance.
 
As a general rule, a tower-controlled airport underlying B-space will have procedures coordinated with the TRACON to precoordinate your Bravo clearance before takeoff, typically started by you making your request to Clearance Delivery if there is one, or Ground if there isn't. Tower cannot actually give you your B-space clearance, since Tower does not have jurisdiction over the B-space:
Sec. 91.131

Operations in Class B airspace.

(a) Operating rules. No person may operate an aircraft within a Class B airspace area except in compliance with Sec. 91.129 and the following rules:
(1) The operator must receive an ATC clearance from the ATC facility having jurisdiction for that area before operating an aircraft in that area.
Click to expand...
...but that precoordination can result in you having an assigned 4-digit code and the right frequency to call, as well as allowing the TRACON to make advance determination of what route/altitude will fit with their traffic so you know what clearance to expect from the TRACON.

As to what routes/altitudes Atlanta Approach might allow for VFR southbound traffic through the B-space out of PDK, you'll have to wait for someone who flies there more than I do.
 
Thanks Ron, that helps tremendously. Not so concerned with routing as it's usually over the top...primarily with concerned with whether I can work out some of the logistics in advance.
 
Years ago they would take you over the top of Hartsfield. I've flown directly over the runway at 5,500 before. Nowadays they keep you clear especially if you're in the approach / departure cooridors. They've even vectored me further away from the B before and I wasn't even in it.

Just call CD at PDK and they're give you a departure procedure. Once you're up with ATL approach, they should be able to work out a clearance into the B at some point. Don't be surprise though if it's way east of the surface B there.
 
Request flight following from PDK ,they will assign a code and heading
 
Ask CD or ground for the Class B clearance (use whichever one you would give a normal departure request -- it may be in ATIS, and if not and you have to guess, guess CD). Add flight following if you want. Not required, but it's good practice.

You'll get a code on the ground. But you still can't enter until explicitly cleared to enter class B, generally by Approach, but it may be the class B tower at low altitude for the surface area.

I'd suggest identifying a landmark on the ground just outside the class B boundary and circle if you get there before receiving clearance. If the boundary is too close to your departure point, fly parallel to the class B boundary on the outside and request a frequency change from Tower while still inside the class D, as soon as you're clear of the pattern and any potentially conflicting inbound traffic.
 
Thanks again guys!

BTW, they'll still take you over the top. I've had to ask specifically for it a time or two (transitioning N-S), but I've never had them say no. Makes for a great flight!

This is from this past fall...

1A3ldUQ.jpg
 
I was listening to Scottsdale KSDL tower 2 days ago and I heard this.

tower. "Cessna 1234B, are you going to transition the Class Bravo airspace?"

Cessna 1234B. "affirmative"

Tower . Cessna 1234B, we can no longer give you a squawk code for the bravo. Contact departure on 120.7 good day."

This was new to me. Any idea why SDL tower can't get a code or coordinate with TRACON ?
 
Some towers are not equipped to handle codes from Center or TRACon, for whatever reason.

For instance, I can't get flight following from Santa Rosa Ground, ever. They tell me to contact Center in the air.

I suspect the reason has to do with radar coverage. Some Class D airports have good radar coverage, some have none at all.
 
Pappy said:
So, I'm trying to figure out the fastest, safest, and most efficient way to depart VFR southbound from KPDK (Peachtree Dekalb Airport in Atlanta).

Anyone have any experience with this? Especially at this specific airport?
Click to expand...

I regularly make that flight. I depart PDK to the north, climb to 4.5, turn to a southern heading (over North Point Mall), contact Approach and request the VFR corridor "over the top." I took a tour of TRACON last year and was told that 4.5 is the preferred altitude.
 
frfly172 said:
Request flight following from PDK ,they will assign a code and heading
Click to expand...

I don't believe PDK will do this for VFR flights. Too busy. I've heard them direct pilots with this request to "contact Approach in the air."

Pappy, is this your understanding as well?
 
Flocker said:
I regularly make that flight. I depart PDK to the north, climb to 4.5, turn to a southern heading (over North Point Mall), contact Approach and request the VFR corridor "over the top." I took a tour of TRACON last year and was told that 4.5 is the preferred altitude.
Click to expand...

Are you getting your code and giving them a heads up of our intentions on the ground or just negotiating it in the air?

What your doing makes sense...you're flying 10NM or so north to create some space before calling them up. I'd love to get all that stuff done before I blast off.

Last time I left out of Cobb-McCollum, I asked the ground controller if he could give me a code and negotiate a bravo clearance with approach. He said he wasn't able to do that, but he did call them on a landline and they were ready for me once I was in the air. Pretty nice of him, I thought.
 
Flocker said:
I don't believe PDK will do this for VFR flights. Too busy. I've heard them direct pilots with this request to "contact Approach in the air."

Pappy, is this your understanding as well?
Click to expand...

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm still a relatively new pilot and haven't flown up there yet...although I want too. Hence the original question.
 
Pappy said:
Are you getting your code and giving them a heads up of our intentions on the ground or just negotiating it in the air?

What your doing makes sense...you're flying 10NM or so north to create some space before calling them up. I'd love to get all that stuff done before I blast off.
Click to expand...

I did all my training at PDK and have been flying out of there for 2 years. I was always told to "contact Approach in the air." With over 400 T & L's per day, they just don't have the time. I'm planning on flying PDK>FFC "over the top" on Friday. I'll double check with the tower and will post my findings.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top