Classroom Ground Schools

[AggieMike88]

For those instructors that do hold Private and Instrument ground schools in the classroom, what is the minimum number of students you require to make teaching the course worth your while?

I'm "dirt math data gathering" for my curiosity to compare with what I'm encountering locally.

I keep coming across instructors who are setting a minimum of 10 and sometimes 15 and are not flexible to do the class for less. And this causes the class to not "make", leaving the few very interested and motivated students out of luck.

Have our classroom instructors gotten stuck into a financial only motivation rut? Are they saying, "If I'm going to invest a few nights a week of my time for 6-8-12 weeks, I must have a minimum of $$$ or it's not happening"??

Have they lost the desire just to teach and see the light bulbs turn on over the students heads and the fire come to life in their eyes?

 

[kenjr]

...I was doing some night flying at my school one night with my CFI and after I got the plane back in the hangar I went back over to pay him and get him to sign my logbook and one of the CFI's was holding the PPL ground course with 3 people. There was a video playing and she'd just stop it every 5 minutes and elaborate or talk about something and then start the video up again.

I'm glad I chose to do my own ground school.

 

[Blackhawk]

1
Or maybe 1.
Had to write that or the board would not take my answer.

 

[flyingron]

Not a CFI but I've fought all kinds of classroom courses from ham radio to college level computer graphics to professional courses at trade show (Who should take this course? Are you a breathing primate with $750 in your pocket?). Frankly, you need enough students to pay the way to develop the curriculum (or buy someone else's) but once I've done that and taught it once, it's just a matter of how many people I need to justify my time to present.

 

[poadeleted20]

I can't speak for all other instructors, but I cannot justify the commitment of 40 hours or so of my time and one or two nights a week for 6-8 weeks without a significant financial return. They joy of teaching just isn't that great. My expectation for that much classroom time plus preparation (including grading homework and tests) would be about the same as what the university paid its part-time staff -- about $2000 for a 3-credit course meeting 2-3 days a week entailing 45 hours of classroom time plus prep. Note in particular that this locks you into being there every session, and that can put a crimp in the rest of your operations. No doubt there are hungry young instructors who'd accept less, but I'd still not expect them to take less than about $1000 for that much of their time. Figure about $250 for books and materials, and the apparent market price of about $500-600 or such a course, and you come up with about 6-8 students minimum to make it work unless the instructor is willing to work dirt cheap (in which case I figure you'll get what you paid for).

 

[jsstevens]

My problem is (as I've related in another thread) I can't find such a class for the IR. Everybody in this area seems to have either given way to online/DVD courses (or tablet courses) or will only take you if you're part of their full up 0 to ATP course.

John

 

[poadeleted20]

My problem is (as I've related in another thread) I can't find such a class for the IR. Everybody in this area seems to have either given way to online/DVD courses (or tablet courses) or will only take you if you're part of their full up 0 to ATP course.

I suspect the advent of those online/DVD courses has really made a big difference in this area. Their quality is generally very good, there's no commitment to a particular meeting date, you can do it in whatever free time you have (I suspect with tablets the "throne room" is popular ), and the cost is probably lower. While it's nice to have an instructor you can ask about things you're having trouble grasping, I believe many of the commercial online/DVD courses have a number you can call to speak to an instructor for help along the way.

 

[hook_dupin]

Here's how I developed my ground school material: I broke my arm.

Seriously, most CFIs don't have time to develop class material or dedicate time to teaching a low number of folks. I found the time unexpectedly following a vehicle vs me accident.

 

[Blackhawk]

Just to add on to what Ron wrote. While I will do this with 1 student, it depends on the compensation and the set up.

 

[RussR]

Mike, you're being a little harsh on the instructors.

Yes, I enjoy teaching. Yes, I enjoy seeing the light go on. Sometimes I even enjoy teaching ground sessions more than flying (ack!), if it's one of my favorite topics. But I also really do value the time I spend with my wife and daughter. And I have a lawn to mow. And cars to change the oil in, and all the other normal things in life that I have to fit into 168 hours per week. So, to compensate for that, yes of course it has to be financially worth my while. I'm not doing this for free, after all - flight instruction is a business, not a charitable cause. Note I said "worth my while", not "making me fabulously wealthy".

We of course can conduct a ground school via one-on-one instruction, which would be at the normal hourly rate. 40 hours at, say $40 an hour = $1600. If you're willing to pay that, great, let's start. But one of the benefits of a formal ground school in most students' minds is that it's cheaper due to "quantity discount" if you will.

So, get 4 of your friends together and maybe the total price comes to $2000 (since there is definitely more work involved with more students, but it's not a linear function), or $500 a piece (excluding books and such). Get 9 friends together and maybe it goes down to $300 a piece. I'm just making up numbers here.

But if it's priced at that same $300 a piece and only 3 people sign up, well that really might NOT be worth the instructor's time. Remember, that time takes away from other things the instructor could be doing as well, including one-on-one ground or flight training (at a higher hourly rate).

 

[Blackhawk]

Mike, you're being a little harsh on the instructors.

Yes, I enjoy teaching. Yes, I enjoy seeing the light go on. Sometimes I even enjoy teaching ground sessions more than flying (ack!), if it's one of my favorite topics. But I also really do value the time I spend with my wife and daughter. And I have a lawn to mow. And cars to change the oil in, and all the other normal things in life that I have to fit into 168 hours per week. So, to compensate for that, yes of course it has to be financially worth my while. I'm not doing this for free, after all - flight instruction is a business, not a charitable cause. Note I said "worth my while", not "making me fabulously wealthy".

We of course can conduct a ground school via one-on-one instruction, which would be at the normal hourly rate. 40 hours at, say $40 an hour = $1600. If you're willing to pay that, great, let's start. But one of the benefits of a formal ground school in most students' minds is that it's cheaper due to "quantity discount" if you will.

So, get 4 of your friends together and maybe the total price comes to $2000 (since there is definitely more work involved with more students, but it's not a linear function), or $500 a piece (excluding books and such). Get 9 friends together and maybe it goes down to $300 a piece. I'm just making up numbers here.

But if it's priced at that same $300 a piece and only 3 people sign up, well that really might NOT be worth the instructor's time. Remember, that time takes away from other things the instructor could be doing as well, including one-on-one ground or flight training (at a higher hourly rate).

That is my feeling. I will meet with one guy at my hourly rate. Two pilots? I'll give them a break- they will each pay less, but I make a little more. As you said, it would not be linear.