Civil Air Patrol - Auction

labbadabba

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labbadabba
Curious - the small print says they encourage buyers to 'inspect' the plane before putting in a bid. What exactly will they allow? I'm not sure how auctions work - I mean, you wouldn't spend the money to run a full prebuy on an airplane you might not even win, right?
 
Curious - the small print says they encourage buyers to 'inspect' the plane before putting in a bid. What exactly will they allow? I'm not sure how auctions work - I mean, you wouldn't spend the money to run a full prebuy on an airplane you might not even win, right?

You pay 5% up front (refunded if you don't win the auction) and the remaining amount before you take possession of the aircraft. As far as due diligence, a prospective buyer will invest as much money in a pre-buy inspection as he is willing to risk. One would also take unknown issues into consideration when bidding on the aircraft. Bidding on airplanes is not for the inexperienced, and proximity helps. Ideally you're an experienced A&P who can get a good look at the aircraft during the inspection period. Bonus points if you know the A&P or shop who did the maintenance on the plane before it went up on the auction block.

My experience with airplane auctions like this is that the final selling prices rarely resemble "steals".
 
Cap planes are all maintained by the government. For what it's worth I'd trust they're standards more then any shmuck doing an annual. If I flew enough I'd buy from them first... Except it'd need a paint job soon.

I heard cap was eliminating alot of planes from their fleet
 
I know of two CAP planes purchased at auction. The main thing to know is they manage the dumping of airplanes by numbers. They've either hit airframe limits they won't fly them past, or engine replace/rebuild limits they won't fly them past. Once in a while they get special permission to replace an engine and go beyond the airframe limits, but it's a process that has to meet a need with the airframe.

(Various Turbo Retract 182s have stayed in the fleet longer than the typical numbers for example, because retracts can't be purchased anymore.)

Both owners were relatively "successful" with their purchases, but both knew they needed to factor in a new engine into the total cost.

Also note the "last annual" dates and damage histories. The last annual is important because the wheels of getting these off the books and bringing in replacements often takes well over a year. There were three 182s that sat at KAPA for over two years, never moved an inch, that were decent airplanes when they were parked and were "okay" airplanes when they were auctioned.

The damage history is important because it's often one of the criteria for dumping them before the other limits.

In all, they can be reasonable deals if you're going to put more money into them immediately and agree any damage was repaired properly.

Also watch out for other not so general stuff like ADs. The big cylinder ADs were fixed on aircraft worth keeping in the fleet and left for the next owner on aircraft that were on the edge of being retired, a few years ago. I doubt that bean counting has changed much.
 
Cap planes are all maintained by the government. For what it's worth I'd trust they're standards more then any shmuck doing an annual. If I flew enough I'd buy from them first... Except it'd need a paint job soon.

The 'standard' is just regular FAA standard. CAP doesn't do its own maintenance, the planes got to selected FBOs and repair stations. The engines are replaced when they reach TBO.

I heard cap was eliminating alot of planes from their fleet

There is some standardization going on. The 172s, Beavers, Maules and pre-restart 182s are eliminated as new planes come on the line.
 
I notice that DHC-2s fetch a nice penny. I suspect Kenmore will buy the whole batch for their refurbishment program.
 
Cap planes are all maintained by the government.

No. They're maintained just like any other standard certification aircraft under FAA rules, not the rules government uses for government aircraft.

Plus CAP isn't a government entity. It's a standalone charitable corporation with government funding and oversight.

Money for maintenance follows a rather convoluted path but *generically* the aircraft are purchased by the government and entrusted to the corporation which pays for the maintenance just like any other fleet would.

They're also self-insured and the money to fix those wrinkled firewalls and golf cart mishaps in that list of damage history, simply came our of their pocket and was done at whatever shop was capable of doing the repair wherever the airplane was at the time.

(And don't go by where the airplanes are located NOW as any indication of what shop worked on them THEN, since before they're sold, they're usually sent to whatever airports in a Wing/State that charges the least for tie-downs, since they're often parked for a considerable length of time as they're decommissioned, decals removed, any equipment that can't or shouldn't remain on board is removed (FM two way radio for example) and any weird STCs maybe reversed like audio panel weirdness -- or not)...

The 'standard' is just regular FAA standard. CAP doesn't do its own maintenance, the planes got to selected FBOs and repair stations.

Exactly. Around here if the aircraft isn't grounded they're required to fly it up to a shop across town that's under contract to do work at a specific price, but if it breaks away from that airport any mechanic can work on it.

Their airplanes have been in the shop right next to mine in the hangar before at the home airport, and they go to the shop next door to the guy we use across town, but essentially all the same mechanics and shops as any other GA aircraft uses on any given airport.

There's also been much controversy over the years when these certified shops came up, because the Crew Chiefs and others really hate having to fly the aircraft across town and convince someone else to chase them in a vehicle to pick them up and drive them back. Rural airports are worse.

Many Wings try to keep a budget for chasing airplanes with another to deal with the constant shuffling of them around to go to the certified shops, but most push back pretty hard on handing that out as free flying. Problem is, after a while, the folks who get stuck moving them around get tired of it.
 
@denverpilot , You're right in clarifying that CAP planes are serviced as per FAA regs just like any other privately owned aircraft. That said, I still would generally feel better about picking up a CAP plane over Joe Schmoe's 172. CAP planes have personnel assigned directly to each aircraft who are responsible for dealing with any squawks. Any issue found gets taken care of, nothing slides. The aircrews keep the plane clean inside and out. At least that's how it is in the Kansas Wing. I would take any of the Kansas planes in a heartbeat if they were up for auction.
 
@denverpilot , You're right in clarifying that CAP planes are serviced as per FAA regs just like any other privately owned aircraft. That said, I still would generally feel better about picking up a CAP plane over Joe Schmoe's 172. CAP planes have personnel assigned directly to each aircraft who are responsible for dealing with any squawks. Any issue found gets taken care of, nothing slides. The aircrews keep the plane clean inside and out. At least that's how it is in the Kansas Wing. I would take any of the Kansas planes in a heartbeat if they were up for auction.

Understand. I was referring to the major damage histories on many of the aircraft on the list, not minor squawks. Different shops, different quality repairs.
 
Understand. I was referring to the major damage histories on many of the aircraft on the list, not minor squawks. Different shops, different quality repairs.
Amen to that! For example, I know of a CAP 182 that had to be taken out of service due to a bent firewall. :eek2:
 
Amen to that! For example, I know of a CAP 182 that had to be taken out of service due to a bent firewall. :eek2:

We had one here that someone tried to snap the tail off of with a snow bank and a night landing. Even better, they claimed they didn't know they did it and the next pilot found the wrinkles behind the landing gear attach point and the cabin.

Just be careful with any that have damage history and make sure it was repaired properly.

Doing quick simple dividing of age vs hours on some of those Cessnas in the list, they didn't fly all that much more and in many cases less, than many privately owned ones, which raises my eyebrow also. In fleets, hangar queens get sold, good airplanes get kept and flown. And most have damage history.

There's still airplanes without damage history out there for the buying, so watch the prices carefully. They appear to have discounted them correctly on that list upon a quick glance, but some aren't deals. A normally $300,000 aircraft going for just over $40,000... could be great or it could be a real nightmare.

Just be careful is all I'm saying.
 
I bought a C172P from CAP auction earlier in the year. It's gone great so far; paint buffed out like new, a bit of sprucing up of the interior and it looks ideal, and after a few other bits and pieces (new engine mounts was the biggest) she gets complimented all the time. Have put a couple of hundred hours on since May with no problems!

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CAP sells Beavers?

OMG

I thought they would just help me find them when my junky little exp plane went missing. But if I can actually buy them? WOW!

Dang, what was this thread about?
 
CAP sells Beavers?

OMG

I thought they would just help me find them when my junky little exp plane went missing. But if I can actually buy them? WOW!

Dang, what was this thread about?

Only in Nevada... I mean, it's illegal in most other states.


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Dude, posting beavers like that, what are you trying to do to me, I burn enough gas in my 185 as it is ;)
 
I'm disappointed! I was hoping to score a spiffy CAP flight suit.

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With all of the Beaver references, it is a good thing they don't have any Culver Cadets to sell. o_O
 
I actually went to see one of them recently. I wasnt all that impressed. The plane had a few things wrong with it and the interior was all ripped up (maybe the planes have good maintenance but overall, U could tell theyre used like work horses). Besides, CAP maybe reducing the fleet but it doesnt mean they will sell their best planes out there..
Good luck to anyone looking into it thouh. I think ill stick with the regular market.
 
The Cessnas or the Dehavlands?
 
Their current Cessna 172s i was talking about..
 
Re "maintained by the government" the important aspect IMO is that it is unlikely that there will have been any shortcuts (bondo filling hail dents) or illegal cost reductions (automotive alternator, for example). I have been involved in buying a couple of airplanes and the first thing I want to know about the buyer is whether is flying on a shoestring or whether he has adequate money that he isn't tempted to cut corners. That's no guarantee but it is a consideration.
 
Their current Cessna 172s i was talking about..

We have one of those 172Ps in in our wing. It's well used but flys like a champ. (not an Aeronca Champ, that'd be cool) Most of these auction planes do seem to have been kept outside so the glass and paint look a little rough but mechanically they should be in really good shape if those CAP wings are anywhere near as fastidious with their MX as the KS Wing.

CAP actually is replacing most of these with new 182s and a few 172SPs. All the older 172s they're selling have either the Air Plains or Penn Yan 180hp conversion with the 2550lb GW increase which gives them a useful load over 1,000lbs. They can really climb and are about as much fun as you can have in a 172.

FWIW, they have another round of planes up for auction currently:

https://www.capmembers.com/cap_national_hq/logistics__mission_resources/aircraft_for_sale/index.cfm
 
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