China 25% tariffs

Briar Rabbit

Briar Rabbit

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Rob
I just received my 58 page document listing the items that are proposed for new tariffs. Lots of items will be affected. Printed circuit boards, monitors and flat screen displays, televisions, outboard motors, airplane components (?), NC machine tools, steel and aluminum products of all sorts, washing machines, dishwashers etc. A lot more than just metals. Glad I just updated my computer.
 
Tough tariffs on China are nothing new. Before the 2016 election it was viewed as being tough on a country who has been acting maliciously towards the US. Now its suddenly an affront to the american consumer?

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/20/china-steel-overcapacity-war.html

The U.S. has tried to counteract the negative impact of cheap Chinese steel by upping its tariffs on imports of cold rolled steel, which is used in car production and construction, from China to 522 percent, saying that China had not cooperated in its investigations into dumping practices.
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Interesting times we live in. I am by no means a Trump supporter, in fact I loathe and despise the man, but I have personally been enraged and angered by our stupid trade agreements and lopsided trade with Asia in particular since the 1980s. We have to draw the line somewhere.

The status quo of our trade policy since the 1980s has done nothing for our country except greatly increase the wealth of the upper class, beat down the middle class into stagnation and increase the lower class. This is not the America I had hoped for. A strong and robust middle class is paramount for America's success IMO, not a strong and robust upper class.

There is no such thing as "free trade" internationally. We need to let that idea go. Nobody except the USA even tries to practice it. It has not worked in our favor when you look at the big picture.
 
So those boxers that don't make it through two washes will be 1/4 more, oh no lol


Frankly I never was a fan of the single serving style garbage that came out of china anyways.
 
flhrci said:
Maybe we will be able to buy more American made stuff in the future out of this.
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I hope so, wish they would have done this in the 90’s when several of the integrated steel mills, except USS and a few others went bankrupt or were bought out by foreign firms. But there will be some increases to goods beyond steel and aluminum.
 
It’s dumb. Jobs are never coming back to the US, if China is hit with tariffs, there are plenty of other countries only too happy to supply the cheap consumer goods we have all got used to.

And now China is putting on tariffs on pork, 9 out of 10 of the largest pork exporting states are red states, way to go there government.
 
China and Asia in general has decimated our heavy manufacturing and lighter manufacturing for that matter, our government policies and programs have given it away. Have you ever wondered how politicians go from broke to super rich after they get elected? I have my ideas. Trump is right on with his policies, and as someone smarter than me has pointed out before, the country with the huge surpluses in trade have the most to lose in a trade war. China is run by a bunch of useless, ruthless commies. It will be interesting to see if they figure this out. Hopefully the progressive left is unable to come to their rescue.
 
Actually, China has evolved into a dictatorship with a very shrewd and capable autocrat in charge. I would posit that I suspect strongly that a trade war isn't going to be good for anyone, but I'm not supposed to talk about politics on this board.
 
You guys do realize the 25% tarriff is China punishing us, right? Americans are going to pay. None of us benefits from a trade war. Especially one we can’t win.
 
Piper Aircraft must be pleased. Isn't China their largest customer?
 
Now China has a bigger reason to become self sufficient - placing tariff's now on Boeing aircraft now will encourage COMAC to get their act together, cutting Boeing out
 
Tariffs are no good for anyone. Take the steel tariff for example. U.S. steel companies will temporarily benefit, but at a much steeper cost to U.S. companies who need steel.

When we import, it's to get something at a fair price that we need, so we benefit. When we export, it's to sell something at a fair price that brings us $, so we benefit. I'm always surprised that the same people who proclaim a free market is always best are usually the first to also say we need more tariffs.

As a nation we are not able to sustain ourselves without trade. Except in the most dire of circumstances should we be putting restrictions in place to encumber businesses from doing what they do best.
 
Scrabo said:
Now China has a bigger reason to become self sufficient - placing tariff's now on Boeing aircraft now will encourage COMAC to get their act together, cutting Boeing out
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Airbus has had an assembly plant for A320s at Tianjin in a joint venture with the Chinese for 10 years now.

Boeing Commercial's market penetration in developing nation markets is mostly 777s & 787s, as Airbus does not have a plane that can compete with those. The fleets of the Persian Gulf carriers are an example of that.
 
China could get real evil and quit buying T-bills. Where we gonna get our money then? Or we could get evil and default on the ones they already have.
 
Gerhardt said:
Tariffs are no good for anyone. Take the steel tariff for example. U.S. steel companies will temporarily benefit, but at a much steeper cost to U.S. companies who need steel.

When we import, it's to get something at a fair price that we need, so we benefit. When we export, it's to sell something at a fair price that brings us $, so we benefit. I'm always surprised that the same people who proclaim a free market is always best are usually the first to also say we need more tariffs.

As a nation we are not able to sustain ourselves without trade. Except in the most dire of circumstances should we be putting restrictions in place to encumber businesses from doing what they do best.
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You should send your post to the Chinese government. They're the ones with tariffs, trade barriers and unbelievable ownership rules. We have been in a trade war for 30 years, we're just too stupid to recognize that fact and that we are losing.

There is no free trade and there never has been. Time to play the game the same way everybody else does.
 
PaulS said:
China and Asia in general has decimated our heavy manufacturing and lighter manufacturing for that matter, our government policies and programs have given it away. Have you ever wondered how politicians go from broke to super rich after they get elected? I have my ideas. Trump is right on with his policies, and as someone smarter than me has pointed out before, the country with the huge surpluses in trade have the most to lose in a trade war. China is run by a bunch of useless, ruthless commies. It will be interesting to see if they figure this out. Hopefully the progressive left is unable to come to their rescue.
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Congress is exempt from "insider trading" laws.
 
I guess the deals with sacks of cash to our politicians in the 90s to get permanent Most Favored Nation status worked too well?
 
luvflyin said:
China could get real evil and quit buying T-bills. Where we gonna get our money then? Or we could get evil and default on the ones they already have.
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That will happen sooner or later, then things will get interesting, meanwhile these miscreants keep getting voted in.
 
steingar said:
Actually, China has evolved into a dictatorship with a very shrewd and capable autocrat in charge. I would posit that I suspect strongly that a trade war isn't going to be good for anyone, but I'm not supposed to talk about politics on this board.
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Actually communism is a dictatorship that results in oppression and requires a disarmed populace so the strong arm tactics can be implemented.
 
I'm amazed at the number of people that slept through high school economics class. Tariffs were created for a reason, to allow dissimilar countries to trade on even grounds. Somehow, the one world crowd has convinced us that tariffs are wrong. The reason you need tariffs is that no two countries have the same currency and economics. A dollar in the US is not equal to a dollar in Mexico or China. Heck, a dollar in NYC is not equal to a dollar in the rural midwest even. Just think about and you realize that the cost of living in Manhattan is triple what it is in Nebraska!

Free trade only benefits the lesser nations. The nations that get away with paying workers a dollar a day. Nations that have no safety or health regulations or requirements. The US has been taken to the cleaners by these free trade agreements. Then people wonder why Ford would rather build cars in Mexico instead of Detroit, and blame the company! They didn't create the system, they have to compete in it. Tariffs equal the playing field. If it cost $10,000 to build a car in Mexico, and $15,000 to build it in Detroit, then you need a $5,000 tariff to make it equal. It all comes down to protecting your nation's own jobs and economy.

As for the gloom and doom sayers about American exports, realize our exports, grain and meat, are necessary food products. We are the number one food producing country in the world. China needs our exports to feed its people, as do many other nations. They can play tough, but when their people get hungry they will pay whatever it takes.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Free trade only benefits the lesser nations. The nations that get away with paying workers a dollar a day. Nations that have no safety or health regulations or requirements.
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Most of your "free trade" imbeciles don't quite grasp that concept. They're the same group of people that thinks meat comes from the store, and electricity comes from a wall socket. :rolleyes:
 
FlySince9 said:
Don't worry about it... Kids are snorting condoms... (see Facebook for that one) we're doomed anyway...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1486426311466025&id=100002960100099
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The jokes are already out about that...

“Please use them correctly instead of snorting them so you never breed.” :)

midwestpa24 said:
I'm amazed at the number of people that slept through high school economics class. Tariffs were created for a reason, to allow dissimilar countries to trade on even grounds.
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That’s the approved story for high schoolers, yes.

Anyone who looks at history and sees how they’re actually utilized for political purposes of the owners of companies, knows that’s a nice fairy tale that keeps places like this board occupied jabbering about it while oligarchs use them for economic battle amongst their pals. Nobody here will have any say in it anyway.

Follow the money, you’ll find the truth on tariffs.

Like I said. I guess the secret sacks of cash for politicians positive to China and their dictatorship dried up. No surprise at all that the rules change then.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Tariffs equal the playing field. If it cost $10,000 to build a car in Mexico, and $15,000 to build it in Detroit, then you need a $5,000 tariff to make it equal. It all comes down to protecting your nation's own jobs and economy.

As for the gloom and doom sayers about American exports, realize our exports, grain and meat, are necessary food products. We are the number one food producing country in the world. China needs our exports to feed its people, as do many other nations. They can play tough, but when their people get hungry they will pay whatever it takes.
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Leaving aside the US ownership interests in Ford for a moment, what you're saying is that the US consumer is actually better off having to purchase a car for $15,000 when they could have purchased the exact same car for $10,000? Isn't that a net reduction in wages? And let's say Mexico retaliates with a tariff on tortillas, so now they cost $1.25 instead of $1.00? Sure we can eat white bread instead, but hasn't that artificially limited our freedom to choose?
Or, we could buy tortillas from Spain instead. Just like the Chinese are currently increasing their tonnage of soybeans from Brazil.

All international trade is based on comparative advantage. Protectionist tariffs don't work. I guess you slept through the Milton Friedman portion of your high school economics class.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Leaving aside the US ownership interests in Ford for a moment, what you're saying is that the US consumer is actually better off having to purchase a car for $15,000 when they could have purchased the exact same car for $10,000? Isn't that a net reduction in wages? And let's say Mexico retaliates with a tariff on tortillas, so now they cost $1.25 instead of $1.00? Sure we can eat white bread instead, but hasn't that artificially limited our freedom to choose?
Or, we could buy tortillas from Spain instead. Just like the Chinese are currently increasing their tonnage of soybeans from Brazil.

All international trade is based on comparative advantage. Protectionist tariffs don't work. I guess you slept through the Milton Friedman portion of your high school economics class.
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Here is the other side of your answer. You work on an assembly line for Ford (just used it for an example, don't read too much into it). If you buy the American built one you have a job. You buy the Mexican built one, you don't. Everyone complains that all of the manufacturing jobs have left the US, but what do you expect when you force companies to move to survive. Even if one company didn't want to leave, they can't compete when the next company outsources its labor to a nation without a minimum wage.

Free trade is a myth. It is part of the Utopian society that certain groups dream about. But that group also slept through World History as well. Its been tried, its failed. The entire planet will never be one big harmonious nation without borders. We can't even keep our own country united these days.
 
denverpilot said:
Anyone who looks at history and sees how they’re actually utilized for political purposes of the owners of companies, knows that’s a nice fairy tale that keeps places like this board occupied jabbering about it while oligarchs use them for economic battle amongst their pals. Nobody here will have any say in it anyway.

Follow the money, you’ll find the truth on tariffs.

Like I said. I guess the secret sacks of cash for politicians positive to China and their dictatorship dried up. No surprise at all that the rules change then.
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Can politicians corrupt the system...is a pig's a** bacon? Absolutely. But they still have a purpose.
 
James331 said:
Frankly I never was a fan of the single serving style garbage that came out of china anyways.
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I hear that a lot. While it is certainly justifiable in many cases, that sort of thinking is dangerous.

China is a big country, with a whole lot of people. Those people are not stupid, nor are they lazy. They are perfectly capable of producing very high quality products. The fact that so much of the manufacturing capacity that we see today seems to be focused on producing cheap crap should not lull anyone into thinking that's all they CAN do.

10 years ago I gave a Chinese startup a shot at producing some printed circuit boards for me. The results were laughable -- 9 out of the 10 prototypes were completely useless. Last year all of my PCBs came from China. They were of excellent quality and were 100.0% free of defects. I could have had the same PCBs made at one of the very, very few remaining US manufacturers, but the cost difference -- especially for prototypes and small production runs -- is staggering.

You old geezers will remember when "Made In Japan" was synonymous with "cheap, shoddy crap" produced in a third world nation. It wasn't that long ago. Those were not stupid people, nor were they lazy. They learned to produce high quality goods and pretty much obliterated large swaths of the American manufacturing economy. Unfortunately, it looks like I will still be alive to see the Chinese obliterate the rest of it.
 
DaleB said:
I hear that a lot. While it is certainly justifiable in many cases, that sort of thinking is dangerous.

China is a big country, with a whole lot of people. Those people are not stupid, nor are they lazy. They are perfectly capable of producing very high quality products. The fact that so much of the manufacturing capacity that we see today seems to be focused on producing cheap crap should not lull anyone into thinking that's all they CAN do.

10 years ago I gave a Chinese startup a shot at producing some printed circuit boards for me. The results were laughable -- 9 out of the 10 prototypes were completely useless. Last year all of my PCBs came from China. They were of excellent quality and were 100.0% free of defects. I could have had the same PCBs made at one of the very, very few remaining US manufacturers, but the cost difference -- especially for prototypes and small production runs -- is staggering.

You old geezers will remember when "Made In Japan" was synonymous with "cheap, shoddy crap" produced in a third world nation. It wasn't that long ago. Those were not stupid people, nor were they lazy. They learned to produce high quality goods and pretty much obliterated large swaths of the American manufacturing economy. Unfortunately, it looks like I will still be alive to see the Chinese obliterate the rest of it.
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And the local stoner kids are also fully capable of putting a full day's work in and showing up on time, yet the proof of the pudding is in its taste, and chinas tastes like poo.
 
DaleB said:
10 years ago I gave a Chinese startup a shot at producing some printed circuit boards for me. The results were laughable -- 9 out of the 10 prototypes were completely useless. Last year all of my PCBs came from China. They were of excellent quality and were 100.0% free of defects. I could have had the same PCBs made at one of the very, very few remaining US manufacturers, but the cost difference -- especially for prototypes and small production runs -- is staggering.
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I'm going to guess you get what you pay for, even in Chinese Yuan.
 

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PaulS said:
Actually communism is a dictatorship that results in oppression and requires a disarmed populace so the strong arm tactics can be implemented.
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While this is true, in the past (after Mao of course) the Chinese more or less ran things by committee. The idea was to not put too much power in any one set of hands to keep the disasters that occurred under Mao from happening again. They abandoned this approach (or Jinping just got past all the safeguards, more likely) I suspect to their detriment.

Russia is a good example of what happens when you put one guy in charge for the one term. Putin keeps making short term gains that have harmed the Russian people in the long term. Russia is full of enormously bright and potentially productive individuals, but the system is so top-heavy and riddled with graft that Microsoft has issued more patents than all of Russia.
 
Point is everything that comes out of china is junk, I really don't care about china, they have nothing worth while to contribute to humanity at this point.
 
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