Chicago area TFR's or Prohibited area if Obama is elected?

wsuffa said:
As for Class Bs.... HOU/IAH will let you over at 16,000 and above. CLE was 15000 and above.
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I've actually been *through* both of those. VFR in Houston, 3 times, all at 2-3000 down I-10 and around downtown. IFR in Cleveland, just about down the lakeshore, I forget if it was 6,000 or 8,000 feet (Mike, you remember? :dunno:)

Of course, miracles do happen. I've been through Chicago's Bravo twice - once IFR, once VFR - Both times on a Sunday night at midnight with the planets aligned. (And yes I'm kidding, but only about the planets part!) Sure was one helluva view though:

Skyway.jpg


ShoreStrut.jpg


DowntownNight.jpg


OhareNight.jpg


LeavingChicagoBeacon.jpg
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I've actually been *through* both of those. VFR in Houston, 3 times, all at 2-3000 down I-10 and around downtown.
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Houston has (or had, at least) an unofficial VFR corridor there. That's a nice dead zone between IAH to the north and HOU to the south. If you're going east or west, you'll probably get routed that way.
 
I check the AOPA RTFP on Friday ( apparently its still updated) Cheyne's TFR is gone abut Bidens popped up about 10nm at 306deg from the DQO VOR. I dragged the map over to chicago but there was none for Obama.
 
kkoran said:
Has anyone here been allowed to overfly the DC ADIZ or a presidential TFR in a non-airliner aircraft?
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It happens all the time. But, since it's in the A-space, it happens under IFR, and as far as the DC ADIZ is concerned, an IFR flight plan and clearance is sufficient to transit through, not just over, and I go through it all the time that way (SBY direct BAL direct FDK/GAI). And I've been through the outer 10-30 ring of Presidential TFR's a couple of times under IFR. In fact, one time, the controller very carefully vectored me around the inner 10nm ring until clear.
 
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jmaynard said:
Houston has (or had, at least) an unofficial VFR corridor there. That's a nice dead zone between IAH to the north and HOU to the south. If you're going east or west, you'll probably get routed that way.
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Yeah, I was planning on going through there (there's a space down I-10 that's underneath the B, between the two surface areas) but when I called for flight following they let me climb. At one point I went 500 feet below an opposite-direction SWA 737 - What a sight!
 
ORD approach goes up to 15K. above that you can probably expect direct from the very friendly Chicago Center controllers.
 
Ron Levy said:
It happens all the time. But, since it's in the A-space, it happens under IFR, and as far as the DC ADIZ is concerned, an IFR flight plan and clearance is sufficient to transit through, not just over, and I go through it all the time that way (SBY direct BAL direct FDK/GAI). And I've been through the outer 10-30 ring of Presidential TFR's a couple of times under IFR. In fact, one time, the controller very carefully vectored me around the inner 10nm ring until clear.
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You confirmed what I though...they won't let you fly over the no-fly area.
 
Per Chicago news reports, President and Mrs Obama expected to come to Chicago for Valentine's day weekend.... so we'll get a chance to find out how the TFR will actually work.
 
lprellwitz said:
Per Chicago news reports, President and Mrs Obama expected to come to Chicago for Valentine's day weekend.... so we'll get a chance to find out how the TFR will actually work.
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Oh, grrrrrflargl! Guess I have to take the long way to Cadillac, or stay home. :(
 
lancefisher said:
Just another excuse to get that Twinkie.
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It would be the ideal tool. In fact, the trip to Cadillac is one where a twin really pays. Driving: 7 hours. Flying around the south end of the lake and the city in the 182: 4 hours. Twinkie direct: One hour.
 
Obama is apparently spending this weekend (13 - 16 Feb) at home in Chicago. The airspace is NOTAM'd from 1600 L on Friday to 0900 on Monday.

They have procedures to allow flights to/from KMDW; but, they require that you submit a waiver request 48 - 72 hours prior. This, of course, negates the advantage of flexibility that GA provides. Departures from KMDW will have be searched prior to departure and arrivals to KMDW will have to stop at a 'gateway' airport (KRFD, KPIA, or KSBN) to be searched.
I'm going to guess that the TSA will conduct its inspections at FBOs at KMDW and the gateway airports. Will pilots have to pay ramp fees just to be inspected? Does this mean someone who is based at KMDW will have to taxi to the FBO (and pay the FBO's ramp fee) to be searched? These additional costs should be reported to AOPA.

Also, what standards are they going to use for the search. Most GA aircraft baggage compartments are accessible from the cabin; so, if it means they aren't going to allow any on the 90+ items that aren't allowed on airliners, we're screwed...not that we weren't already.

People who are affected by the TFR should contact their Congressperson to and let them know how it impacted you. Maybe they can write Obama and let him know what an impact his visits home have on people and how it hurts the local economy.
 
They did this sort of searching in the early days of the FRZ (and still reserve the right to do it in the future). But to my knowledge, they didn't care what you had in your private airplane, as long as it wasn't guns, gas, or bombs.

Doesn't make it any less of a PITA.
 
kkoran said:
Obama is apparently spending this weekend (13 - 16 Feb) at home in Chicago. The airspace is NOTAM'd from 1600 L on Friday to 0900 on Monday.

People who are affected by the TFR should contact their Congressperson to and let them know how it impacted you. Maybe they can write Obama and let him know what an impact his visits home have on people and how it hurts the local economy.
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Ugh... There goes the neighborhood. :(

This affects a lot of airports, and POAers. Scott and Mike are safe at Galt and Campbell, but Grant and Leslie are in it at Clow.

Lessee, the list of public airports effected: MDW is the only one within the inner ring. The outer ring includes PWK, ORD, 06C, 1C5, LOT, IGQ, 05C, GYY, and 3HO. VPZ, JOT, and DPA are just barely outside, but close enough that if you're in the pattern you'd better watch out!

It looks like the center of this thing is right on the lakeshore, about a mile from NILES. So the lakeshore shortcut is certainly out of the question. :(
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Ugh... There goes the neighborhood. :(

This affects a lot of airports, and POAers. Scott and Mike are safe at Galt and Campbell, but Grant and Leslie are in it at Clow.

Lessee, the list of public airports effected: MDW is the only one within the inner ring. The outer ring includes PWK, ORD, 06C, 1C5, LOT, IGQ, 05C, GYY, and 3HO. VPZ, JOT, and DPA are just barely outside, but close enough that if you're in the pattern you'd better watch out!

It looks like the center of this thing is right on the lakeshore, about a mile from NILES. So the lakeshore shortcut is certainly out of the question. :(
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C'Mon. It's soo small!
http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr_map_ims/html/ns/scale3/tile_3_3.html

Why there are at least three other entire states that are unaffected. :mad3:
 
And this is going to curtail operations at Clow (and probably Lewis) by 80-90%:
I. THE FOLLOWING OPERATIONS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED WITHIN THIS TFR: FLIGHT TRAINING, PRACTICE INSTRUMENT APPROACHES, AEROBATIC FLIGHT, GLIDER OPERATIONS, PARACHUTE OPERATIONS, ULTRALIGHT, HANG GLIDING, BALLOON OPERATIONS, AGRICULTURE/CROP DUSTING, ANIMAL POPULATION CONTROL FLIGHT OPERATIONS, BANNER TOWING OPERATIONS, MODEL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS, MODEL ROCKETRY, AND UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS (UAS).
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I was planning to make this a five day weekend and get some flight training in. That's now totally shot. I would have Thursday and Friday until 1600. Merde!
 
gprellwitz said:
And this is going to curtail operations at Clow (and probably Lewis) by 80-90%:
I was planning to make this a five day weekend and get some flight training in. That's now totally shot. I would have Thursday and Friday until 1600. Merde!
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It's a good weekend for you two to come visit me up in damn near Wisconsin.
 
gprellwitz said:
And this is going to curtail operations at Clow (and probably Lewis) by 80-90%:
I was planning to make this a five day weekend and get some flight training in. That's now totally shot. I would have Thursday and Friday until 1600. Merde!
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Grant,

Get in and file to somewhere outside. THEN start the flight training. :yes:

The flight schools are going to need all of that type of operation they can get while the TFR is up, else they're gonna be gone before Obama is. :(
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Grant,

Get in and file to somewhere outside. THEN start the flight training. :yes:

The flight schools are going to need all of that type of operation they can get while the TFR is up, else they're gonna be gone before Obama is. :(
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I suggested something similar to Rob in this [thread=26754]thread[/thread], but Less said that under similar circumstances that Philadelphia was denying clearances during the TFR.
 
gprellwitz said:
I suggested something similar to Rob in this [thread=26754]thread[/thread], but Less said that under similar circumstances that Philadelphia was denying clearances during the TFR.
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WTF. Can they even do that? Especially to IFR aircraft?
 
AAacccck! Obama's coming here and the place is already starting the shut-down preparationis.
 
Yeah, I just saw that you get him on Thursday. Go out and fly, and then give us a PIREP! :) (Dang, I think you're situatin in the inner 12NM zone.:()

I'm specifically interested in whether Lee's right about them not giving clearances in the outer zone.

I'm also wondering whether it would be acceptable, presuming they'll give one, to get a squawk code, head outside the TFR area, and do maneuvers or training there. My suspicion is that it would not work, because the instructor would be considered to be providing flight training from the moment the engine started, but if someone can provide more definitive guidance, I'd be interested.

And if you just wanted to get out and fly (non-instructionally), with whom would you open the VFR flight plan to get the discrete squawk code? AFSS doesn't normally provide squawk codes, so would you call the nationwide clearance delivery number (presuming you don't have a tower or an RCO)? I don't remember seeing this in the AIM.
 
gprellwitz said:
...And if you just wanted to get out and fly (non-instructionally), with whom would you open the VFR flight plan to get the discrete squawk code? AFSS doesn't normally provide squawk codes, so would you call the nationwide clearance delivery number (presuming you don't have a tower or an RCO)? I don't remember seeing this in the AIM.
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Allow me to remind agian: How it works elsewhere does not include consideration of the one city in the US where ATC DOES NOT ANSWER FLIBS. Even if you manage to file, what happens if they can't hear you?
 
mikea said:
Allow me to remind agian: How it works elsewhere does not include consideration of the one city in the US where ATC DOES NOT ANSWER FLIBS. Even if you manage to file, what happens if they can't hear you?
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Well, unless they don't answer the phone, they'll hear you. Whether they assign a squawk code is another matter, and goes to Lee's point that Philadelphia supposedly wouldn't. And if they wouldn't, what makes us think that C90 would?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
WTF. Can they even do that? Especially to IFR aircraft?
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Yes, they can, and they have. I even heard Houston Center turn down a guy that was asking for a clearance at KERV to do practice approaches on an IMC day - said he didn't have time for it. I got my clearance back to SSF.

gprellwitz said:
I'm also wondering whether it would be acceptable, presuming they'll give one, to get a squawk code, head outside the TFR area, and do maneuvers or training there. My suspicion is that it would not work, because the instructor would be considered to be providing flight training from the moment the engine started, but if someone can provide more definitive guidance, I'd be interested.

And if you just wanted to get out and fly (non-instructionally), with whom would you open the VFR flight plan to get the discrete squawk code? AFSS doesn't normally provide squawk codes, so would you call the nationwide clearance delivery number (presuming you don't have a tower or an RCO)? I don't remember seeing this in the AIM.
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The scenario in your first paragraph works fine in the DC ADIZ - CFI is legal pilot/PIC for the operation....

As for the second, if you can't get it from Approach, yes, call the nationwide clearance delivery number. And if you're denied, call AOPA.
 
wsuffa said:
Yes, they can, and they have. I even heard Houston Center turn down a guy that was asking for a clearance at KERV to do practice approaches on an IMC day - said he didn't have time for it. I got my clearance back to SSF.
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Oh sure, I can see them denying practice approaches. I just can't see them denying a legitimate cross-country flight plan. Fly the whole thing (or cancel outside the ring). Do what you need to do. Land at an outlying airport. File from that airport back to the home drome.

Otherwise, that sounds to me like restricting freedom of movement and/or getting into your business, and that's not their business. Unless they want everyone out of business!
 
The NOTAM says that you must squawk from takeoff - so filing VFR gets you a code at what point? At the time you file? Does flight service assign you a code over the phone when you file? I'd love to get the skinny on how to depart from the outer ring, as I'm out of 05C...

--Brent
 
btorrenga said:
The NOTAM says that you must squawk from takeoff - so filing VFR gets you a code at what point? At the time you file? Does flight service assign you a code over the phone when you file? I'd love to get the skinny on how to depart from the outer ring, as I'm out of 05C...

--Brent
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if your airport does not have a frequency to contact ATC on the ground for a clearance, you'll have to get one on the phone through flight service.
 
tonycondon said:
if your airport does not have a frequency to contact ATC on the ground for a clearance, you'll have to get one on the phone through flight service.
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Gotcha, thanks for the info.

--Brent
 
Haven't been to Chicago since they bulldozed Meigs. I don't care if there is a permanent TFR over the place, I'm not going anyway. They can keep Da Bares.
 
jmaynard said:
Anthony said:
Haven't been to Chicago since they bulldozed Meigs. I don't care if there is a permanent TFR over the place, I'm not going anyway. They can keep Da Bares.
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There is. It's called the Chicago class Bravo.
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As Jay said, the Bravo pretty much keeps GA out of O'Hare and inconveniences GA in the area.

The Presidential TFR, however, does a lot more than the TFR to lock out the airports, especially Midway, the only other airport in Chicago. It also adds a lot more restrictions on flights in the Chicago area that aren't in Chicago proper. To launch from my airport I now need to get a clearance, whether I'm going IFR or VFR.
 
This afternoon I saw a C-130 departing ORD. I assume it was going to Springfield or Peoria to move suburbans around. I was wondering why they did not just fly Air Force 1 to ORD then do the other movements with Marine 1

Edit: I did not realize he was going back to the White House on thursday night.
 
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