Cherokee down in N. IL, minor damage

Yikes ... does lifting the aircraft with the propeller then require an engine teardown?
 
Looks like they were returning to Grayslake (C81). Had to stay low under the Chicago class B airspace.

Pretty lucky.

Looking back from where they ended up. I'm guessing they came in under the traffic lights.

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Kenny Phillips said:
Yikes ... does lifting the aircraft with the propeller then require an engine teardown?
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You and I have the same question. Save the plane in an emergency landing only to have it damaged by the crew hauling it back to the airport.

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Edited: Seems these folks do know what they are doing!
 
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Will have to ask around next time I'm at the airport. I'm not sure but i might have seen this on trade a plane a couple months ago. If not the listed owner is an ap/ia .

Night landing in that area, remarkable that the wingtip is the only damage. I'd need a change of pants.
 
Daleandee said:
You and I have the same question. Save the plane in an emergency landing only to have it damaged by the crew hauling it back to the airport. But these folks likely didn't know any better ...

IMG_7331.jpg
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That looks like about the best way to do it to me, if you're not going to remove the wings.
 
Salty said:
That looks like about the best way to do it to me, if you're not going to remove the wings.
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Agreed. Just curious if it would cause damage to the crank by lifting the FWF weight with it.
 
I've always been intrigued by the logistics of these post accident actions. Reading through my insurance, it says "reasonable efforts to secure the aircraft are considered to be done at the request of the insurer".

It's not like acft insurance claims people are available on the phone outside of bankers hours, so what is an insured supposed to do? Keep a public road closed until one can track down "proper maintenance personnel" from god knows what closest unfamiliar airport, to come unbolt the wings during bankers hours the next non-weekend day? Nope, that ain't gonna fly with local law enforcement. You're moving the heap of junk off the pedestrians' sacrosanct highway, or you're having your property forcibly moved for you.

--break break--

A question for those who have gone through off-airport recoveries. Is the cost of contracting these wreckers done on a payment now basis, with reimbursement later as part as the insurance claim with your aircraft insurer? Did you get any pushback on getting the billed costs for these off-site recovery services reimbursed? I figure that off-hours recovery for a non-auto conveyance can't possibly be as cheap as towing a car; it doesn't seem a trivial expense to have to negotiate/incur immediately after surviving a forced landing or crash.
 
hindsight2020 said:
A question for those who have gone through off-airport recoveries. Is the cost of contracting these wreckers done on a payment now basis, with reimbursement later as part as the insurance claim with your aircraft insurer? Did you get any pushback on getting the billed costs for these off-site recovery services reimbursed? I figure that off-hours recovery for a non-auto conveyance can't possibly be as cheap as towing a car; it doesn't seem a trivial expense to have to negotiate/incur immediately after surviving a forced landing or crash.
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Good question. The equipment they're using looks like one of those heavy duty wreckers capable of pulling semi trucks out of ditches. Seems like their bill starts in the low four figures just to get them out there.

Regardless, that area is kind of the Land of the Strip Mall. Would have thought they could have just pushed it into a parking lot someplace.
 
The big strap around the fuselage is at the trailing edge of the wing, so maybe 30 inches aft of the center of pressure. It might even be closer: between the flaps and fuselage. That leaves minimal weight on that prop. The crank and case are stout enough; they have to deal with forces bigger than that. Thrust, gyroscopic precession, hard landings, asymmetric thrust from P-factor in the climb. The prop itself has to deal with precession and terrific centrifugal forces as well as crank torque and blade drag.
 
Fwiw this isn't that towing companies first time lifting an aircraft. They handled one at C81 a few years ago that veered off the runway. There's a large towing company 2 miles and on the same road as where this was, but these guys had prior experience
 
Racerx said:
Fwiw this isn't that towing companies first time lifting an aircraft. They handled one at C81 a few years ago that veered off the runway. There's a large towing company 2 miles and on the same road as where this was, but these guys had prior experience
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Yep, I was going to note that. The towing company 2 miles south of there has quite a fleet and I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve tackled a plane before.

For anyone mildly curious, I’d put the landing 2 nm NNE of OBK VOR., if that far. I lived there nearly a decade. Will be interesting if more details about the plane, destination or flight crop up.
 
Great to see a night emergency landing with no injuries and what might be minor damage.

To me it looks like the recovery guys are doing careful work. The main sling is really wide, which tells me they're concerned about crushing the thin aircraft skin. And looks like they're backing the flatbed in as they lift, so that if anything slips there isn't far to fall.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I've always been intrigued by the logistics of these post accident actions. Reading through my insurance, it says "reasonable efforts to secure the aircraft are considered to be done at the request of the insurer".

It's not like acft insurance claims people are available on the phone outside of bankers hours, so what is an insured supposed to do? Keep a public road closed until one can track down "proper maintenance personnel" from god knows what closest unfamiliar airport, to come unbolt the wings during bankers hours the next non-weekend day? Nope, that ain't gonna fly with local law enforcement. You're moving the heap of junk off the pedestrians' sacrosanct highway, or you're having your property forcibly moved for you.

--break break--

A question for those who have gone through off-airport recoveries. Is the cost of contracting these wreckers done on a payment now basis, with reimbursement later as part as the insurance claim with your aircraft insurer? Did you get any pushback on getting the billed costs for these off-site recovery services reimbursed? I figure that off-hours recovery for a non-auto conveyance can't possibly be as cheap as towing a car; it doesn't seem a trivial expense to have to negotiate/incur immediately after surviving a forced landing or crash.
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Insurance covered the recovery in my case. I never saw the bill, just the documentation of its settlement.
 
masloki said:
Yep, I was going to note that. The towing company 2 miles south of there has quite a fleet and I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve tackled a plane before.

For anyone mildly curious, I’d put the landing 2 nm NNE of OBK VOR., if that far. I lived there nearly a decade. Will be interesting if more details about the plane, destination or flight crop up.
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I thought there was a reason they used that towing company. Owner of that company is always at the airport and has a gorgeous Stearman.
 
Finally got the story and it's a doozy. It sounds like insurance now owns the plane. But that's just the start...or the end I suppose
 
Racerx said:
Finally got the story and it's a doozy. It sounds like insurance now owns the plane. But that's just the start...or the end I suppose
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Eh? That’s not much detail.

Seeing flightaware, just a few days before the crash he crossed the lake. Yikes.
 
ALLEGEDLY...new owner paid a cfi to instruct him and drop him off in Indiana near his daughter. CFI was to fly it back. On the return trip he decided to fly right seat (odd, but not rule breaking I know) but never fueled up. Ran her out as suspected. For what little damage there was, I'm surprised it was totalled. But because of where the damage was and pipers spar history they probably decided it needed replacing.
 
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Racerx said:
ALLEGEDLY...new owner paid a cfi to instruct him and drop him off in Indiana near his daughter. CFI was to fly it back. On the return trip he decided to fly right seat (odd, but not rule breaking I know) but never fueled up. Ran her out as suspected. For what little damage there was, I'm surprised it was totalled. But because of where the damage was and pipers spar history they probably decided it needed replacing.
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I suppose the NTSB prelim would indicate if one or both tanks were dry. Disappointing if true - certainly one of the more (most?) preventable accidents. Scrapping is less surprising to me. Parts and labor are up, if you can get both to line up in a reasonable time.
 
The gentleman that owned it chose a new CFI after this. The owner is VERY thorough on the preflight. CFI, apparently not so much.
 
So, he ran a tank dry and sucked water from the other one when he attempted to switch them? Or he never had enough patience for the lines to reprime?
 
AV8R_87 said:
So, he ran a tank dry and sucked water from the other one when he attempted to switch them? Or he never had enough patience for the lines to reprime?
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Keep in mind he was under the ORD bravo at night in a fairly densely populated area. 2000' msl which would mean he was roughly 1250' AGL. If the fan quits, he's got roughly 1 minute until hes back to Terra firma. Not a ton of time to troubleshoot and pick a place to land...at night. Milwaukee Ave is a pretty busy road.

Given the location, he did a fantastic job once it quit. However... Failure to sump the tanks as well as poor fuel management is damning. He would have landed with at most bare minimum 45 minute reserve. That cuts it way too close for me.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I've always been intrigued by the logistics of these post accident actions. Reading through my insurance, it says "reasonable efforts to secure the aircraft are considered to be done at the request of the insurer".

It's not like acft insurance claims people are available on the phone outside of bankers hours, so what is an insured supposed to do? Keep a public road closed until one can track down "proper maintenance personnel" from god knows what closest unfamiliar airport, to come unbolt the wings during bankers hours the next non-weekend day? Nope, that ain't gonna fly with local law enforcement. You're moving the heap of junk off the pedestrians' sacrosanct highway, or you're having your property forcibly moved for you.

--break break--

A question for those who have gone through off-airport recoveries. Is the cost of contracting these wreckers done on a payment now basis, with reimbursement later as part as the insurance claim with your aircraft insurer? Did you get any pushback on getting the billed costs for these off-site recovery services reimbursed? I figure that off-hours recovery for a non-auto conveyance can't possibly be as cheap as towing a car; it doesn't seem a trivial expense to have to negotiate/incur immediately after surviving a forced landing or crash.
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I believe the police have final say how it is removed. They probably call the next rotation wrecker available to do the job.

Friend landed a F33A on the road and wrecker charged 35K to remove.
 
A gentleman that just sold his Stearman at the destination airport owns a tow company located across the street from PWK. He removed a Cherokee that had a runway excursion at C81 previously.

If memory serves, he removed this one as well as they were familiar and county sheriff knew they could do it. I believe they dumped it off at PWK roughly 15 miles south under police escort.

Edit: re reading this thread, I just re-wrote the same things I've already said.
 
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