Cherokee 6 pre-buy inspection

[JesseD]

Just curious what to have the A&P double check for during the inspection. He has a good rep, but no one can know everything.

1967/68? (oops, forgot the year) 7 seat 6-300

 

[Telemakhos]

I am so jealous.
Congratulations on the new plane! I wish I had one; I'd be able to offer something constructive here. Sorry.
But congratulations again!

 

[JesseD]

I am so jealous.
Congratulations on the new plane! I wish I had one; I'd be able to offer something constructive here. Sorry.
But congratulations again!

1) it's not mine yet

2) it's not new, it's older than I am

3) I'll be sharing it with my dad

4) Thank you, I'm crossing my fingers all is well. Still, if it is not, I'll just walk away. That's why it's a pre-buy inspection. Just enough for us to not get too surprised (cross fingers) when the first annual hits.

 

[taters]

Just curious what to have the A&P double check for during the inspection. He has a good rep, but no one can know everything.

1967/68? (oops, forgot the year) 7 seat 6-300

Hopefully you are doing an annual.

Paperwork/Logs. Every 337, STC etc better be there or get there. Be a stickler on this..

Brakes..they are major PITA if they are not right.

Fuel tank leaks or signs of a leak

Landing gear, check nose wheel for shimmy and look for anything bent.

Wing Bolts..

Engine mounts , exhaust cracks or leaks, oil analysis. Basically give the engine what you would at an annual/100hour...not just a compression check.

 

[Ted]

Oil analysis doesn't mean much without a trend to show what it's been doing. But cutting open the filter does give useful information without a trend, and the engine mount is always a good idea to check, as are leaks.

It's a 42-43 year old plane. Something will be wrong with it. The question is whether or not it's somethign you want to deal with.

 

[mikea]

Where is the plane?

I can recommend Crusty to (hire to) take a pre-buy look at it, even if it's in Appleton. He knows Pipers like no other and wouldn't need to do an annual to inspect it.

 

[JesseD]

Hopefully you are doing an annual.

Paperwork/Logs. Every 337, STC etc better be there or get there. Be a stickler on this..

Brakes..they are major PITA if they are not right.

Fuel tank leaks or signs of a leak

Landing gear, check nose wheel for shimmy and look for anything bent.

Wing Bolts..

Engine mounts , exhaust cracks or leaks, oil analysis. Basically give the engine what you would at an annual/100hour...not just a compression check.

The paperwork is easy. This is at a dealer and far enough away that I don't know if the mechanic will be able to bring all the tools for a full annual. Would they let him use some of their equipment if necessary? This is the first time either my dad or I had looked at buying a plane, so pardon my ignorance.

 

[taters]

The paperwork is easy. This is at a dealer .

Good luck you on your purchase..!

But man be careful on the paperwork...I just walked away this year from 2 BE-33's (for a client)( dealers) that were garbage on paper. Be sure to go over it with a fine-toothed comb. Never just trust them because they are a dealer. As soon as you sign those problems are now your problems....just be careful. I have walked away from several aircraft over serious paperwork problems as the pre-buy wasn't likely worth my time or deposit money.

As for the annual, I would think someone would allow the use of their shop. A pre-buy is pretty serious business, be thorough. All the excitement you have right now will be a distant memory if a whole bunch of problems arise that could have been caught or corrected by the seller.

 

[JesseD]

Where is the plane?

I can recommend Crusty to (hire to) take a pre-buy look at it, even if it's in Appleton. He knows Pipers like no other and wouldn't need to do an annual to inspect it.

Ohio, about 350nm away.

 

[jesse]

This is at a dealer and far enough away that I don't know if the mechanic will be able to bring all the tools for a full annual

If you don't have the tools to do an entire annual than you don't have the tools to do a good prebuy either.

 

[JesseD]

Good luck you on your purchase..!

But man be careful on the paperwork...I just walked away this year from 2 BE-33's (for a client)( dealers) that were garbage on paper. Be sure to go over it with a fine-toothed comb. Never just trust them because they are a dealer. As soon as you sign those problems are now your problems....just be careful. I have walked away from several aircraft over serious paperwork problems as the pre-buy wasn't likely worth my time or deposit money.

As for the annual, I would think someone would allow the use of their shop. A pre-buy is pretty serious business, be thorough. All the excitement you have right now will be a distant memory if a whole bunch of problems arise that could have been caught or corrected by the seller.

Heh, I meant that should be the easier part to check for the mechanic. As someone that had purchased several cars, used, I don't trust a dealer farther than my daughter can throw a fit.

 

[Ted]

Heh, I meant that should be the easier part to check for the mechanic. As someone that had purchased several cars, used, I don't trust a dealer farther than my daughter can throw a fit.

You lie like the man with the slick black hair who sold me that Ford

The main thing is not having to reconstruct major portions of the logs. However, the Aztec has the first 20 years of its life missing in the logs. Since the second 20 years is still there, that's been plenty sufficient for us.

 

[JesseD]

If you don't have the tools to do an entire annual than you don't have the tools to do a good prebuy either.

And this is where I show my ignorance. I don't know what's required for an annual. I'm kind of at the mercy of the A&P. Granted, my first choice for CFI, the airport manager, and a other pilots I've met say he's really (really) good at pre-buy inspections, et al.

I'm a total newbie at plane ownership. I just know it's expensive, in relative terms.

 

[COFlyBoy]

1) it's not mine yet

2) it's not new, it's older than I am

3) I'll be sharing it with my dad

4) Thank you, I'm crossing my fingers all is well. Still, if it is not, I'll just walk away. That's why it's a pre-buy inspection. Just enough for us to not get too surprised (cross fingers) when the first annual hits.

#3 - I share a '66 Cherokee 6 with my Dad and its all good. I fly about 10 times as much so there aren't any scheduling issues.

Check the ADs (you're A&P should be able to get the complete list). There's a pretty long list given that the plane is ~45 years old.
- Fuel sump AD (shoulda been complied with like 25 years ago, but you gotta know)
- Prop ADs
- Yoke AD (I think)

Look for belly corrosion. Look for spar corrosion where the struts attach. Look for corrosion where the flap, aileron, and trim tab hinges attach.

I suggest you see if you can remove the 7th seat. Its just in the way and you're never going to get an adult to sit in it. I've never met any kids that could make it through a trip sitting that close together. I like having the little aisle from the front to the back. Its convenient.

 

[JesseD]

Yeah, the list probably is long on AD's. I'll see if they have the logs digitized and are willing to send them to me for the A&P to look at. That should save cost.

As far as the seventh seat goes, as long as my mom or wife stay skinny one of them can sit in the middle. Honestly though, it probably won't get used much. Maybe if we're going to ON, CA to visit relatives. That'd be about it. Any time other than that it's a big 4 seater with carrying capacity

 

[murphey]

And this is where I show my ignorance. I don't know what's required for an annual. I'm kind of at the mercy of the A&P. Granted, my first choice for CFI, the airport manager, and a other pilots I've met say he's really (really) good at pre-buy inspections, et al.

I'm a total newbie at plane ownership. I just know it's expensive, in relative terms.

1. using the N number, order the CD with all the 337s and other details from the FAA. $5 is the cheapest level of detail you can find.
1a. If you're still interested after reading thru interminable details on the CD, continue.
2. Pull all the ADs on the aircraft, the engine and the accessories. Have they been complied with?
3. In the Piper documentation (search on the board for the links for the Parts & Service manuals) go thru the various inspection lists. The details are there for 50, 100, 500 hour inspections. Invaluable and the best place to start to learn about annual inspections, pre-buys, etc.

Didn't know you were going to get homework assigned, did you?

 

[JesseD]

1. using the N number, order the CD with all the 337s and other details from the FAA. $5 is the cheapest level of detail you can find.
1a. If you're still interested after reading thru interminable details on the CD, continue.
2. Pull all the ADs on the aircraft, the engine and the accessories. Have they been complied with?
3. In the Piper documentation (search on the board for the links for the Parts & Service manuals) go thru the various inspection lists. The details are there for 50, 100, 500 hour inspections. Invaluable and the best place to start to learn about annual inspections, pre-buys, etc.

Didn't know you were going to get homework assigned, did you?

Nope, I just thought you went to the lot and picked it up with a full tank of gas

Seriously though, thanks for the pointers. I'd like to make this as painless as possible for my dad and I. Well, relativistically speaking, because owning a plane is painful to the pocketbook

 

[Tom-D]

Just curious what to have the A&P double check for during the inspection. He has a good rep, but no one can know everything.

1967/68? (oops, forgot the year) 7 seat 6-300

Do a complete inventory, by make, model and serial number of every component installed. check equipment list for reflection of that equipment.

Then run a AD list on every installed piece of equipment and verify that every AD has been complied with, on each appliance, not just signed off.

When you know the aircraft is legal, go fly it, see if each Appliance works. check engine oil pressure when hot, to insure it doesn't fall below mins.

Next check the engine aircraft and prop times, and if they were in fact signed off properly at last overhaul.

Check with the FAA data base for the legal owner, and find any liens against it.

Then get your A&P to inspect it as to condition of the aircraft and equipment.

then ask the big question.

"what will cost to get the next annual by him, and work the discrepancies".?

You do not need to have him preform an annual inspection unless of course the aircraft is out of annual.

 

[weilke]

Check the fuel selector for leakage. A bit of a project if it needs to be rebuilt.

 

[COFlyBoy]

Nope, I just thought you went to the lot and picked it up with a full tank of gas

Seriously though, thanks for the pointers. I'd like to make this as painless as possible for my dad and I. Well, relativistically speaking, because owning a plane is painful to the pocketbook

You guys must be really fast!

 

[Steve Foley]

I'm kind of at the mercy of the A&P.

If the mechanic doing the pre-buy is the same mechanic that will be doing the annuals, that is a really good thing.

Everybody has an opinion as to what needs to be done. There's nothing worse than having a mechanic do a pre-buy 600 miles from home and having your mechanic finding things he doesn't like that the other mechanic missed.

 

[wabower]

Yep. This is probably the most single-most important economic factor in any pre-buy, and arguably the least understood by the prospective owners. They whine that "I can't afford to pay my mechanic to go look at it" so they cheap out and hire some local guy who's supposed to be good.

They ignore the fact that the guy who's going to maintain it has his pet list of items that he wants to be done in a certain way, and that he feels no obligation to change that list because some other guy that he doesn't know has a different list. So the new buyer takes it home thinging everything is fine and the guy who will be maintaining it finds a bunch of things that he insists should be fixed. Often the cost of repairs--with no chance of getting any of them paid for by the seller--is far greater than if the owner had paid his homey to go look at it originally.

We all know that airplane mechanics never agree on anything, they just wave that 43-whatever book at each other and try to yell louder than the other guy about what it says.

If the mechanic doing the pre-buy is the same mechanic that will be doing the annuals, that is a really good thing.

Everybody has an opinion as to what needs to be done. There's nothing worse than having a mechanic do a pre-buy 600 miles from home and having your mechanic finding things he doesn't like that the other mechanic missed.

 

[gramig]

I'll add one more from experience. My PA 28-235 just underwent it's first annual since I've owned it. Has been flying great, normal oil anaylsis over the last three oil changes. Makes good power, decent compressions, etc. IA found a small crack in cylinder 1. Removed cylinder for repair. Found intake cam lobe severely worn. 1800 hrs on engine. Time for new engine! Complete surprise! So I recommend pulling a cylinder to look at the cam lobes. It's worth the little extra cost. Especially if the plane has had periods it didn't fly much.

 

[Tom-D]

I'll add one more from experience. My PA 28-235 just underwent it's first annual since I've owned it. Has been flying great, normal oil anaylsis over the last three oil changes. Makes good power, decent compressions, etc. IA found a small crack in cylinder 1. Removed cylinder for repair. Found intake cam lobe severely worn. 1800 hrs on engine. Time for new engine! Complete surprise! So I recommend pulling a cylinder to look at the cam lobes. It's worth the little extra cost. Especially if the plane has had periods it didn't fly much.

Its cheaper not to know that stuff.

You might have gotten 4 or 5 more hours out of that engine before it failed.



do you feel your chain being jerked?


good catch.

and welcome aboard..

 

[JesseD]

I'd like to thank everyone for the input, but someone else bought her before I could arrange the inspection. I will keep the info given for future reference.

 

[brien23]

Do a complete inventory, by make, model and serial number of every component installed. check equipment list for reflection of that equipment.

Then run a AD list on every installed piece of equipment and verify that every AD has been complied with, on each appliance, not just signed off.

When you know the aircraft is legal, go fly it, see if each Appliance works. check engine oil pressure when hot, to insure it doesn't fall below mins.

Next check the engine aircraft and prop times, and if they were in fact signed off properly at last overhaul.

Check with the FAA data base for the legal owner, and find any liens against it.

Make sure you see a data tag on the airframe and one on the engine and match it to the log books. No data tags 15 cents a pound for scrap.