Changing to Experimental

luvflyin

luvflyin

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Luvflyin
I was looking at an airplane to buy and noticed the Airworthiness date was 7 years after the Manufacture date. It turns out it was put in the experimental catagory for a few months while a modification was being done and tested and then returned to normal airworthiness when that was done. My question is, can you just change your airplane to the Experimental catagory and leave it there. The reason I ask and would consider doing it is that so many minor modifications that have no effect on airworthiness can be nearly impossible to do because there is no existing STC and FSDO's seem to have adopted a "no field approval for anything stance"
 
The short answer? No. At least not in the E-AB category, which is the only useful category for most owners.

I'm starting a new EX Cub. I have no bones with the certificated category but I will enjoy the freedom that E-AB allows. Especially for a highly modified Cub.
 
luvflyin said:
I was looking at an airplane to buy and noticed the Airworthiness date was 7 years after the Manufacture date. It turns out it was put in the experimental catagory for a few months while a modification was being done and tested and then returned to normal airworthiness when that was done. My question is, can you just change your airplane to the Experimental catagory and leave it there. The reason I ask and would consider doing it is that so many minor modifications that have no effect on airworthiness can be nearly impossible to do because there is no existing STC and FSDO's seem to have adopted a "no field approval for anything stance"
Click to expand...
The problems is, there isn't just an "Experimental" category. You have to put the aircraft into a particular subcategory under airworthiness, and the permissions and permanence of each vary. This diagram illustrates some of the available subcategories.
airworthiness.jpg

Everyone's most familiar with the Experimental Amateur-Built (EAB) category, which gives the owner the most freedom. However, to be put in EAB, the aircraft has to be constructed for "Education or Recreation"... a certified aircraft doesn't qualify. Experimental Light Sport actually gives more freedom, but the aircraft has to be designed from the ground-up to be licensed in this category (there are slight exceptions). Experimental Exhibition is almost as free, but you need some reason the aircraft would be "exhibited"...not just for personal use.

Standard Airworthiness aircraft can be placed into Experimental, but typically under the "Research and Development" or "Market Survey" categories. You have to have a good reason to place the plane in these subcategories (not just for personal use). And, usually, they can only remain there for a limited time until they must be restored to their original configuration.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Canada has an owner-maintained category and there was talk about such in the US, but as currently things stand, it doesn't exist.
 
wanttaja said:
The problems is, there isn't just an "Experimental" category. You have to put the aircraft into a particular subcategory under airworthiness, and the permissions and permanence of each vary. This diagram illustrates some of the available subcategories.
airworthiness.jpg

Everyone's most familiar with the Experimental Amateur-Built (EAB) category, which gives the owner the most freedom. However, to be put in EAB, the aircraft has to be constructed for "Education or Recreation"... a certified aircraft doesn't qualify. Experimental Light Sport actually gives more freedom, but the aircraft has to be designed from the ground-up to be licensed in this category (there are slight exceptions). Experimental Exhibition is almost as free, but you need some reason the aircraft would be "exhibited"...not just for personal use.

Standard Airworthiness aircraft can be placed into Experimental, but typically under the "Research and Development" or "Market Survey" categories. You have to have a good reason to place the plane in these subcategories (not just for personal use). And, usually, they can only remain there for a limited time until they must be restored to their original configuration.

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'm not counting on "my market survey says the only way I can afford this airplane and do what I want to it is go experimental". Lol
 
flyingron said:
Canada has an owner-maintained category and there was talk about such in the US, but as currently things stand, it doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

The Canadian owner-maintained category is limited to certain specific, older and comparatively simple airplanes. Purpose was to address the issue of certified parts for airplanes no longer supported and the spiralling cost of keeping such older airplanes flying. Owners can apply for a special owner-maintained CofA. However, once an airplane is granted that status it cannot be returned to certified status...its a one way trip.
 
Most likely the aircraft was in experimental while the were working on a modification for the production line.
I've seen aircraft moved from Std to experimental for some R&D and then put back to original condition and back the STD.

Most imported gliders if not STD, are Experimental for exhibition and racing.
Our tow plane, a Piper Pawnee was originally Restricted, agriculture use, but we changed it to Restriced, glider and banner tow.
 
Restricted/Limited is different from Experimental.

I've known a few planes that have gone into Ex-R&D while they were working on developing an STC and back to certified when done. Still as the other Ron points out, this is not something that's going to give you the liberties of Ex-Amateur Built.
 
flyingron said:
Restricted/Limited is different from Experimental.

I've known a few planes that have gone into Ex-R&D while they were working on developing an STC and back to certified when done. Still as the other Ron points out, this is not something that's going to give you the liberties of Ex-Amateur Built.
Click to expand...

That was it. A tail skid/tie down on a Cardinal
 
GRG55 said:
The Canadian owner-maintained category is limited to certain specific, older and comparatively simple airplanes. Purpose was to address the issue of certified parts for airplanes no longer supported and the spiralling cost of keeping such older airplanes flying. Owners can apply for a special owner-maintained CofA. However, once an airplane is granted that status it cannot be returned to certified status...its a one way trip.
Click to expand...

Can those be imported to the US?
 
Just to reiterate that it is easy to convert an S-LSA to an E-LSA.

Of course, that limits one to Light Sport limitations, but if that meets your mission, there are big advantages to doing so.
 
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FastEddieB said:
Just to reiterate that it is easy to convert an S-LSA to an E-LSA.

Of course, that limits one to Light Sport limitations, but if that meets your mission, there a big advantages to doing so.
Click to expand...

You were so limited before. What you can not do is convert an LSA-legal certificated aircraft (like an Ercoupe, etc...) to E-LSA.
 
luvflyin said:
Can those be imported to the US?
Click to expand...

The FAA does not recognize this category of Canadian CofA and will not allow them to be flown in US airspace or be sold into the USA.

In Canada the category was developed to further support recreational aviation and lower the cost of maintaining older aircraft out of production and for which new, certified parts were becoming difficult/impossible to find. Transport Canada has a list of specific airplanes that are eligible and will accept and consider requests from owners to add additional aircraft that qualify. Airplane has to be max 4000 lb gross, max 4 passenger, single engine, fixed pitch prop (ground adjustable okay), no retractable landing gear and has to be out of production with less than 10% of the registered fleet in commercial service.
 
I can add a few facts here as I put my Bonanza into experimental while testing avionics. In my case, I had dual airworthiness certificates in both the R&D and Market Survey categories. The certificates were good for only 1 year and they needed to be renewed each year with an inspection and log book review by a DAR ($$$). The certificate came with a 3 page letter of authorization which gave restrictions of what I could and could not do. The LOA was part of the airworthiness certificate and must be carried at all times. An example was that in the R&D I could not carry passengers, but in the market survey I could as long as they were part of an avionics demonstration. I could not fly over congested areas, but could perform aerobatics, but each maneuver had to be logged in the permanent log book records.

My airplane is a 1985 model and if you look at the FAA database it says the airworthiness certificate was issued in 2016 which was the last certificate issued and happens to be when I turned it back to a Certified airworthiness certificate.

I can't think of a situation where you would be better off with an exp certificate over a certified certificate.
 
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread...

I have a 1946 J-3 Cub that I restored.

After fighting with Piper and the FAA for the last ten months I have been told to pound sand. They will not issue a new data plate (one I had turns out isn't valid) and it looks like my options are to scrap the plane, or go E-Exhibition.

How do I go about making this conversion? Do I need to get a DAR involved?

From a practical standpoint how restrictive is the E-EXB category? I know I have to do the program letter, and since it is an 80 mph airplane I doubt I will want to travel with it much, but I hate to not even have the option.

Thanks for any help.

-Dan
 
Find a wrecked J-3. Buy the parts with data tag and logs. Quietly replace every part with yours and move on.
 
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