Change of career

To hindsight's point earlier in the thread, I'm turning 39 in a week and, while I currently sit in Kuwait on an intel analyst contract, the goal is to make aviation a full-time career when I get back. However, I'm also unmarried with no kids, so my experience is vastly different than most at this point. I can take advantage of opportunities many others can't. The low-time Alaska thread was really timely as that's where I'd like to go, too. But I've also always got about 5 irons in the fire to take advantage of whatever comes my way, so I'm simultaneously working on going back to instructing, a last ditch hail mary attempt at getting in the AFR flying C-130s, waiting on an interview with General Atomics for a Reaper pilot position, and potentially if all else fails could maybe turn that into an AFR career.

 

I actually have a podcast I produce on this very subject. I’m five episodes in and it’s fascinating the stories people have shared with me.

Plenty of people have made the transitions successfully. What I’ve heard from my guests so far is it does take discipline, some sacrifice, and hard work to get it done.

The other thing I’m trying to highlight over time, the airlines isn’t the only option. Part 135, CFI, even non-flying jobs like airport management, A&P, and the list goes on.

Best of luck in your decision making!

Ps, shameless plug. The “Fly the Transition” podcast is available on most podcast platforms…apple, Spotify, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Thank you for sharing that podcast. Just listened to the 1st one. Love it.

 

Check this out. Switching to a Flying Career Later in Life - FLYING Magazine

 

I have had more people telling me to go for it than stay where I am at. I am the only one holding myself back here.

I am still new to this whole aviation thing (only 200 hrs) but I learn quick and without padding myself on the back I think I am good at it so far. My CFI keeps telling me that i am the most prepared student he has ever had etc etc. Just came back from a week vacation in So California. I flew allover that airspace (bravo, charlie, deltas, SFRA, etc) and it felt like I had done is a million times even though it was my 1st time. So, I really like this field and it is really calling my name but I think I am scared of failure and what ifs.


So, tell me about ATP. Say I go at it hard how long should I anticipate before I can say I am an airline pilot? I keep reading all kinds of timelines. ATP says about 80k (with credit for the PPL) and 7 months. That cant be right. Or is it? what about those 1500 hors that I would have to have?

 

Perhaps chunk it out?
It is easy for somebody else to tell you to "go for it".
@ 200 hrs, you do not have commercial yet. I do not recall if you have instrument yet?
I would suggest to get Instrument and Commercial. Then see where you are and what your thoughts are.

 

I am working on my instrument right now. I am going for the commercial after getting my instrument. I also think it would take me another year before I can obtain my 1st class medical (currently have a 3rd class special issuance).

 

At the current time, what is preventing you from getting your 1st class? Why the 1 year wait? In the future will you have difficulty in keeping your 1st class?

 

I have done some soul searching. I was 50/50 on my decision to leave the current career for aviation. I am past the 50/50 now. Its more like 70/30 in favor of aviation.
Currently half way through my instrument training. Its taking longer than I would like it(my cfi is not available much). I expect to get the instrument rating this year. In sept I have to see my AME to renew my 3rd class SI certificate. Planning on applying for the 1st class in sept. We think I can get it and keeping it should not be an issue unless something happens medically unexpectedly. I am healthy and no issues right now.

I have come up with some kind of a plan moving forward. I dont have a ton of pilot friends or family so there is no guidance source. I am thinking about getting the instrument rating and my 1st class. Then look into getting all other ratings (commercial, CFI, CFII, multi engine etc) over the next year or so. I am hoping I have all those ratings under 2 years. After that I would have to look into a CFI position somewhere to build the hours. The problem is I live in S IL where getting those many hours may be difficult. Driving to St. Louis 1-2 hrs may be an option. By the time I have the ratings I will have saved enough funds to allow me to leave the current career and really focus hard on getting those hrs built.

I am wishful that this will work out because I would be happier than a circus clown on the job as a pilot.

 

@ahmad - Do you live near Quincy, IL (or St.Louis) ?
It is my understanding that Southern Airways Express hires new First Officers, Part 135, with minimum 500 hrs TT, single engine, commercial, instrument. They fly single engine, fixed gear, turbo prop Caravan. The pay is borderline volunteer but it is about hours and experience.

 

Hi @ahmad ... Here is a link to another forum where I was asked to post my "story".

https://thepilotsplace.com/forum/index.php?threads/by-request-an-improbable-journey.2498/

It wasn't that long ago and may give you a flavor of what I experienced. A lengthier read than typical for a forum post, just to warn, but it got some favorable reaction.

 

Thank you. I live about an hour from St. Louis. I'll look into that.

 

Thank you. I'd definitely read it.

 

this is the part that's getting me. I totally know you have to 'pay your dues' but some of the entry level salaries are criminal.

 

Where exactly in Southern Il? Mt Vernon?

 

Yes sir. Mt. Vernon.
Middle of nowhere.

 

Wow. What a wonderful story. I need friends like you and Kareem. Thank you for the inspiration. So far, I have had 1-2 people tell me I am crazy for giving up the 6 figure income to pursue flying. The more important people in my circle (my AME and especially the boss aka wife) have told me things like it is never too late and that life is short and to go for it etc.

 

I grew up in Sparta. Know the area well. Have a good friend who is from there.

 

The world renowned epicenter of American Trapshooting.

 

Yep! At least it was - the state of IL stopped paying to run the center. Don’t know if it’s open, etc .

 

It's never too late. After instructing for a while to build enough hours for a resume to be noticed, I started flying in Alaska at 55. Started in 207s, then went on to Caravans and now PC-12s for the last few years. I left a construction job that payed reasonably well, but it was boring. Never a dull moment flying in Alaska though.

 

Ahmad. Do it.

I am in a similar situation. Mid-life crisis (at 42) includes a divorce and a career change as well. Collected PPL to CFII over a period of time from 2010 to 2023. I am looking to make the switch to aviation. I currently work IT in the public sector.

I will be content to be a CFI/MEI and I am open to Part 135 flying. In the two months since I earned my CFII cert, I have taken on 4 new Instrument students and I am having a blast.

You only live once. Go for it.

 

First, my story.

I never intended to be a pilot for a living. I always wanted to be a pilot just for fun. I grew up near a GA airfield and had two uncles who were private pilots.

I worked as a lineman at a GA airport FBO in college, got my Private ASEL at age 28, instrument (so I could do more GA travel) at 31, commercial ASEL and AMEL about a month apart at 34... 'cuz, you know, you just never know. I never really intended to use it, but just about as soon as I got my comm-ASEL I picked up some ferry work and a couple years after the comm-AMEL I found myself in the right seat of a jet - For one leg - purely by chance (and, of course, preparation). But that's the whole reason I got my commercial was to be able to take advantage of those right-place-right-time opportunities.

I worked as a truck driver during a pause in college due to lack of funds, afterwards I worked as a business intelligence (data analytics) consultant and developer for several years.

I also had a helluva lot of fun flying around, and gained a lot of valuable experience. By the time I hit 750 hours - Halfway to the ATP - I already had more than enough night, instrument, and cross country time to get the ATP, was just missing total time. I joined a flying club. I flew club airplanes from our midwest base to the east coast, west coast, and gulf coast. I landed at the highest and lowest airfields in the US. I took a mountain flying course, I did aerobatics, I got my complex, high performance, and tailwheel endorsements, and I met many PoAers in person at various events.

Then, at age 44 and with about 2000 total hours of flying myself around mostly on my own dime, I met the Chief Pilot of a local flight department that was undergoing the transition to an independent Part 135 operator, and he in turn introduced me to the CEO. They liked the fact that I could do things besides just fly, and contribute in many ways. My experiences as a former business owner and a long-time member of the flying club leadership in addition to my technical skills could all be useful to them, so they hired me as "Pilot plus". I was told to just concentrate on flying first and we'd figure the rest out later. Two months in, due to some maintenance that took longer than expected as well as the timing of some buying and selling of aircraft, we found ourselves without any airplanes for three weeks. I'm not the kind of person who will sit still for very long, so I started just coming in to the office every day and doing anything I could to accelerate the growth of our business.

Even though I was flying a desk for that three weeks, I found that I was still enjoying the hell out of it because no matter what I was doing, it was still aviation related. For a while, I was introduced as "This is Kent... He wears many hats for us."

Today, four years later, we have over 50 employees, five aircraft (two more arriving next month), we have opened a new $15M FBO and I am officially the Director of Safety, though I still have a bunch of other hats that I wear from time to time. I'm flying a desk 80% of the time, but I am still a qualified 135 captain and will remain so for the foreseeable future AND even when I'm flying a desk, like I said before, it's all aviation related work and I still enjoy the heck out of it. I get to think through aviation scenarios, I get to shape our flight department policies, I get to talk with lots of other pilots from around the industry, and I get to mentor newer pilots.

Perhaps most importantly, I work at an operator that values both its employees overall, and their quality of life. Our business model doesn't have us on the road constantly - Our pilots are generally out and back same day and are home to eat dinner with their families, with maybe one or two overnights per quarter. Currently, 22% of our pilots are former airline pilots, while nobody has left us to go to the airlines. I saw the country in the few years I was a truck driver, and I do not want the airline lifestyle. I get to fly to a ton of places, from Bravos to little tiny GA airports. I'm happier than the proverbial pig in ****.

So would I say do it? Yes. It's more a matter of how you do it - do you walk towards it, or do you jump off a cliff? I was lucky enough to already have the time and be able to make the change without having too much financial worry, though my income did take a hit at first it wasn't ever negative since I didn't need to build time and then find a job. FWIW, we hire turboprop FOs at 900 hours total time, captain upgrades at 1,500 if you're ready, jet upgrades based on seniority. It'd be hard to find a multi or turbine job with significantly less hours than that, so it's going to be up to you to decide whether you can continue with your current occupation and do fun flying and instruction on the side, or whether you can handle the financial hit of quitting and hemorrhaging money for a year or two to build time.

Same... And I love it.

From reading Noah's story, it sounds like he had to have his application in before his 62nd birthday. Age 65 is forced retirement for 121, but some 121 retirees will fly 135 or 91 corporate afterwards.

It's getting really hard - pretty much impossible, in fact - to insure anyone over 70, however.

Depends where you go, and how safe they are, and whether they've tried to convince their insurance company of that. For ours, we only need people to get 100 in type before they can be insured as a captain on a turboprop. Total time is a bigger deal, since we can hire an FO at 900 hours but can't upgrade you to captain until 1500. We've had some FOs that continue to flight instruct and/or fly their own GA planes on the side so that they build the total time faster.

It's likely that your time in type requirements are a result of your low total time, possibly combined with the quality of the training program at your job. If they have an FAA-approved training program and/or use one of the well-known simulator training facilities, the story would probably be different.

You haven't even hit 135 PIC minimums yet. The local FedEx feeder will put you in the left seat of a Caravan with zero time in type once you do. But that is what an approved training program can do for insurance.

Had you jumped into aviation back then, you might have regretted that by now, too. I had my commercial certificate when I was still a truck driver, and people would be astonished to find that out and ask what I was still doing in a truck.

The answer was that, at the time, it would have taken me around eight years of commercial flying just to get back up to what I was making as a truck driver. Being a numbers guy, I put together a spreadsheet to compare lifetime earnings (including training costs) for someone graduating high school and pursuing a career as a truck driver or a pilot.

The pilot didn't catch up to the truck driver in lifetime earnings until age 63... So if the truck driver made some smart investing choices, they would still come out ahead since the pilot's earnings were heavily weighted towards the end of their career when they'd be in the left seat of a widebody flying over oceans, while the truck driver would be making good money after just a couple of years. Wages for pilots at regionals were AWFUL until the last 10 years. I was looking at potentially making less than $20K per year as a new regional FO in the 2008-2010 timeframe. Nope!

So don't worry too much about the past. The situation has changed, and you can still live the dream. Maybe not the left-seat-121-widebody dream, but honestly I think the fantasy of that is far better than the reality.

 

Thank you for sharing that story. I really love reading them.
I have been brainstorming a bunch of ideas with the family. The wife is fully behind me on this. She said "we have been through worst before".

I am going to focus on getting out of debt completely in 2 years while working towards my ratings. Hoping to be fully focused on aviation after I am able to walk away from my current financial obligation with my current career.

 

Great idea, being debt free is going to make it all much more enjoyable.

 

Sounds like a great plan. I would start training on a regular basis (schedule 3 lessons a week, and hopefully fly at least two after weather and maintenance issues...) and get to your CFI certificate as quick as you can with other obligations considered. Then, you can start instructing on the side while you finish off the current career and your flying will be pulling in more money as well.

Then, you'll also have at least some positive cash flow after you quit what you're doing, since you'll be able to instruct right away.

 

I wouldn’t discount sim time. At least in the way of future employment. My company requires 200 instrument but only 50 actual in the aircraft. Sim can help make up the rest.