Chances the GTX 345 will ever gateway to the GTN series...

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by denverpilot, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    So anyone think Garmin will ever do a firmware drop into to the GTX 345 that will allow it to act as a gateway to the GTN series for flight plan sync?

    Seems silly to add a Flightstream 210 and disable the Bluetooth already in the 345, send the ADSB and AHRS data to the Flightstream as well as hook the GTN to the Flightstream ...

    ... when the GTN and GTX could just get firmware updates to pass flight plan data down a cable and out the Bluetooth module to a connected tablet and back.

    I figured I’d start a thread. Maybe Garmin is listening. Ha.

    I mean, I know it’s Garmin and $1500 retail more for another box is kinda their gig anyway... but this one seems awfully “do-able”.

    Serial data in/out of the GTN is already there for it... just pass it in/out the Bluetooth on the GTX 345. And the GTX is already sending all the ADS-B to the GTX anyway via that cable...

    As it stands, we elected not to add the Flightstream to our setup and all we lose is flight plan sync. To disable the 345 Bluetooth and add the Flightstream seems, really dumb. Haha.

    If they’d have done Database Concierge with the 210 it might make more sense. But not without it. And that’s a Flightstream 510 thing, since it goes in the database card slot.
     
  2. Craig Hammond

    Craig Hammond Filing Flight Plan

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    The Bluetooth in both my Flight Stream 510 and GTX345 work at same time. I've been connecting FF directly to the GTX345 and Pilot to the FlightStream 510. I was doing this because until the most recent update, the Attitude info from GTX345 was not getting transmitted by FlightStream 510. With version 2.33 that is suppose to be fixed.
     
  3. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Yeah that setup would work too. Neat that they’ll both connect simultaneously. I wasn’t aware the Bluetooth spec allowed that. But not too surprising.

    I just think it’s funny that the majority of that data is already flowing between the GTX and GTN but they left out passing the data stream for flight plan sync down the cable and out the 345 Bluetooth.

    I’m sure it’s not high on the priority list for any engineer there since it would kill at least $1000 more in revenue. Ha.

    Another member here mentioned off list that the GTN, GTX plus Flightstream 210 setup with latest firmware will pass DUAL AHRS to a connected tablet. Both from the GTX and the Flightstream box.

    Not sure why that’s really necessary but it’s an interesting side note. :)
     
  4. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Version 2.33 for... Which box? The GTX?

    How can I tell what software version my GTX has?
     
  5. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    I *think* from reading other forums and Googling that’s a firmware version FOR the Flightstream 510 itself... amazing as that may sound. Flash your crazy little SD card somehow at the dealer?

    I can ask the avionics guy tomorrow if that’s a thing. Haha. I think it is from both the other forums and something someone said to me tonight... you don’t want an “old stock” FS510 or make the dealer flash it before installing it, they said.
     
  6. Craig Hammond

    Craig Hammond Filing Flight Plan

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    Yes, I had to take the plane to the avionics shop. He upgraded the GTN650 to 6.41 and FS510 to 2.33.
     
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  7. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Thanks for the details! This stuff helps a lot when we’re still in the “working some kinks out” stages of these products!

    Or in my case, installing them in the very near future.
     
  8. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Hmmm. Our FS510 is already on version 2.33 and we still can't get attitude from the GTX345. GTN750 version is also 6.41. No attitude.

    What about your GTX345? Ours is on 2.05. Thanks!
     
  9. Craig Hammond

    Craig Hammond Filing Flight Plan

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    I have to check the version of GTX345. I've been getting attitude data directly from the 345 on FF. Before the upgrades the attitude data did not get passed by FS510. Now it does. The Pilot app shows it receiving attitude (device status) data from FS510 but the attitude page on pilot isn't displaying it yet.

    Here is text from the Garmin STC for the software updates. Attitude data from 345 through the FS510 is addressed.
    ____________
    Rev B: Approval of GTN v6.41, Flight Stream 210 v2.70, Flight Stream 510 v2.30, and GTN NAV v6.03 software for AML STC SA02019SE-D
    December 4, 2017


    PRODUCTS AFFECTED:

    GTN 6XX/7XX navigators and Flight Stream 210/510 installed using Approved Model List (AML) Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) SA02019SE-D are affected.

    CERTIFICATION APPROVAL:

    STC SA02019SE-D MDL Revision 17

    REVISION B:

    Clarified Approved Flight Stream Software Versions

    COMPLIANCE:

    Optional

    PURPOSE:

    AML STC SA02019SE-D Master Drawing List (MDL Revision 17) includes:

    • GTN 6XX/7XX Software v6.41
    • GTN 7XX NAV Software v6.03
    • Flight Stream 210 Software v2.7X (All Flight Stream 210 Software v2.7X is approved by the equipment list)
    • Flight Stream 510 Software v2.3X (All Flight Stream 510 Software v2.3X is approved by the equipment list)
    GTN 6XX/7XX Software v6.41 include the following:

    • Added support for visual approaches which include advisory vertical and horizontal guidance to most runways.
    • Added support for forwarding GTX attitude through the Flight Stream 510 to portable devices.
    • Added support for advisory vertical guidance on LNAV approaches in regions without SBAS coverage.
    • Removed pop-up that impeded the creation of user waypoints defined by two radials.
    • Changed datalink weather timestamps so that they will now collapse when all weather is current to declutter the display.
    • Changed GSL altitude display to round to the nearest 10 feet and include the configured antenna offset.
    • Added support for logging connections to the Flight Stream products connected to the GTN. The log can be sent to Garmin for analysis, when needed.
    • Added height above terrain in MapMX and ARINC GAMA Formats 1-6.
    GTN 7XX NAV Software v6.03 reduces nuisance “needs service” messages.

    Flight Stream 210 Software v2.70 includes the following:

    • Add a wireless connection log with a GTN
    • Added expanded channel list with GDL 69 SXM software versions 5.10 or later
    Flight Stream 510 Software v2.30 includes the following:

    • Fixed issue related to FIS-B weather data (Service Advisory 1684) from a GTX 345
    • Added an attitude output from a GTX 345 when connected to a GTN
    • Add a wireless connection log with a GTN
    • Added expanded channel list with GDL 69 SXM software versions 5.10 or later
    MDL revision 17 also includes an expansion to the AML. Under this update, the following models were added to STC SA02019SE-D.

    Make – Model – TCDS

    Tecnam – P2010 – A00066CE

    Cubcrafters – CC19-180 – A00053SE

    Ruschmeyer – R90-230RG – A77EU

    Extra – EA300/LC – A67EU
     
  10. Craig Hammond

    Craig Hammond Filing Flight Plan

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    BTW, looks like there is a software update for GTX.

    I think mine is also 2.05, but I'll confirm it.
    ___________________
    GTX 3X5(R) Series TSO Main Software Version 2.12
    August 28, 2017


    PRODUCTS AFFECTED:
    All GTX 3X5(R) series products with main software version 2.11 or earlier are affected.

    CERTIFICATION APPROVAL:
    TSO

    COMPLIANCE:
    Optional

    PURPOSE:
    GTX 3X5(R) Series main software version 2.12 includes the following changes:

    • Fixed an A429 startup issue for G9XX/G1XXX retrofit installations
    • Fixed air/ground determination issue
    • Added ability to enter aircraft stall speed
    • Added GNS format to accept GPS and height above terrain data from a GNS 400W/500W Series device (GTX 335 only)
    • Updated ADS-B out encoding to improve position accuracy
    • Improved ARINC 743A input data processing
    • Fixed altitude reporting errors when using pressure altitude from a GAE
    • Added RS-232 Aviation format 2 to provide GPS data from GPS equipped GTX 3×5 units to GTR/GNC units
     
  11. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Our avionics guy just confirmed for me that with the right firmware in everything the attitude data from the 345 should come out of the FS510.

    He also did an install sending the AHRS from a 600 through it recently for a Caravan.
     
  12. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    By the way he also shared that the chances that a firmware update will allow Flight plan send/receive through the 345 in the future is low.

    Word he has is the Bluetooth receiver inside in the 345 literally isn’t wired to dump incoming data to the correct bus, it’s a outgoing setup only at the hardware level.

    So ... per the original question I posed, there’s the best news I currently have on it. Wouldn’t hold my breath. Sounds like Garmin would have to re-spin the circuit board and re-certify.
     
  13. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pre-Flight

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    My plane has a GNS-430W, GTX-345, and just installed a FS210. OMG, love the the FS210 for up & downloading flight plans.

    I think using the Bluetooth interface installed in the 345 is an interesting idea, but not practical when looking at Garmin's integration strategy and roadmap. Their stuff is confusing enough with install/interconnect options across their gear portfolio - both new and legacy gear. Their decision to focus all transmission of flight plans between certified and uncertified equipment onto one product gateway is understandable.

    The real question, instead of a workaround using the 345, is WHY are the SIMPLE cheap circuits use in the FS21/510 so expensive.
     
  14. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Oh that part is easy. Because they’re Garmin! LOL. ;)

    Aviation has finally realized the magic of the on board Ethernet bus and its purpose. To make manufacturers some serious money. LOL.

    Works for the smartphone makers... ;)
     
  15. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yep, I'm totally addicted to the FS510. It was a pretty penny for a little SIM card, but jeez, talk about an easy way to get in the plane and fly. Love it.
     
  16. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pre-Flight

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    I'm with Ryan, though with a FS210. Kick myself for not getting it sooner. So fantastic to make flight plans at home on Foreflight and then upload to 430W.
     
  17. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    IMO the FlightStream 210 is even better with a GNS (430/530) - Entering a flight plan by spinning knobs can take a long time, especially if you're going to be on airways!

    Even the GTN 650 can't fit the keyboard on a single screen - FS 510 is great there.
     
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  18. BGF_Yankee

    BGF_Yankee Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have the GTN650, FS510, and GTX345...with all recent software updates, as well as an app update to Foreflight, all works as advertised to me with Foreflight and Garmin Pilot. It is also true now that after these updates, you no longer need to Bluetooth connect to both the FS510 and the GTX345. Everything is now routed through the FS510.
     
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  19. iamtheari

    iamtheari Line Up and Wait

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    How about the G3X Touch as a gateway for loading flight plans into the GTN navigators? Foreflight's site (https://foreflight.com/connect/garmin/) claims:
    But I have not had any luck finding further documentation of this. The Pilot's Guides for the GTN 650 and the G3X Touch don't seem to make any reference to the Flight Stream products.