CFI TSA recurrent training

The government that sent Mohammed Atta his ATP with congratulations 2 months after he hit the WTC wants to make sure that YOU never do it again...of course!
 
mikea said:
The government that sent Mohammed Atta his ATP with congratulations 2 months after he hit the WTC wants to make sure that YOU never do it again...of course!
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And current procedures will prevent this HOW???:mad3::mad3::mad3:
 
cGreg, Greg,

Don't you know that because we have to do this, EVERYONE feels safe. Giving BS to what 0.01% of the population that has SPIN for the other 99.99% is Politically Correct.

Where does REALITY appear in that equation?

Joe

Edit: I can't imagine what the instructors of the 9/11 guys felt.
 
The TSA requirement is about money out of your pocket if you don't comply. Make sure that all of your students have given you a copy of the Birth Certificate or Passport before you begin flight training or you could end up with a $10,000 fine per student.

This is about money, take it seriously
 
baxter1000 said:
The TSA requirement is about money out of your pocket if you don't comply. Make sure that all of your students have given you a copy of the Birth Certificate or Passport before you begin flight training or you could end up with a $10,000 fine per student.

This is about money, take it seriously
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And why should that apply to a person who presents with a valid pilot's certificate, Medical, and DL? That person has ALREADY jumped through those hoops. My gathering that data does not prove anything.

Does it apply if I only do Flight reviews? How about IPC's? Aircraft checkouts? I am NOT providing primary training.
 
Greg: when I went to recurrent training at a sim place recently, they wanted a passport. Didn't matter that I could be PIC with my airman's cert., DL and medical, but to fly a sim, now, that's another matter. No new rating. What's interesting, is the way I read that reg., that's not required, but everyone is in butt covering mode.

Best,

Dave
 
PP has been required at SFI since shortly after 2001. It makes about as much sense now as it did then.

Dave Siciliano said:
Greg: when I went to recurrent training at a sim place recently, they wanted a passport. Didn't matter that I could be PIC with my airman's cert., DL and medical, but to fly a sim, now, that's another matter. No new rating. What's interesting, is the way I read that reg., that's not required, but everyone is in butt covering mode.

Best,

Dave
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Greg Bockelman said:
Can someone PLEASE tell me what the practical purpose of this garbage is?
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The real "practical purpose" is that the Gov't can tell it's citizens that they have put in place procedures to prevent "un authorized flight training" of some one that might want to hurt us with airplanes.

But they are not concerned about our own Timothy McVey's in the country.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Try telling that to a TSA "agent". They are much like FAA inspectors in that each one interprets the rules differently, and each office has it's own set of rules.
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Well, I have found the following from two different sources, although I can't seem to find it straight from the TSA's mouth, so to say.

Whenever a flight instructor takes on a student working towards any of the following certificates or ratings, the flight instructor must verify and document the citizenship or authorization of the student BEFORE providing any flight instruction:

* Recreational Pilot
* Sport Pilot
* Private Pilot
* Instrument Rating
* Multiengine Rating
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Greg Bockelman said:
Well, I have found the following from two different sources, although I can't seem to find it straight from the TSA's mouth, so to say.
Whenever a flight instructor takes on a student working towards any of the following certificates or ratings, the flight instructor must verify and document the citizenship or authorization of the student BEFORE providing any flight instruction:

* Recreational Pilot
* Sport Pilot
* Private Pilot
* Instrument Rating
* Multiengine Rating
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Interesting that neither Commercial nor Flight Instructor are included!
 
greg im pretty sure all CFIs have to do the training, regardless of what type of instruction they do. the good news is it is worthless training that is self endorsed and untraceable.
 
tonycondon said:
greg im pretty sure all CFIs have to do the training, regardless of what type of instruction they do. the good news is it is worthless training that is self endorsed and untraceable.
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I know that. I have done that. Today even. But what I am trying to wrap my mind around is if I have to do the damned background checks on EVERY flippin student I fly with. What my research shows is for the instructing I do it isn't required.

And if someone proves to me that each GD TSA office interprets it differently, I am going to shred my CFI cert.
 
on that count, i can understand your frustration. my understanding is only what i have read from the AOPA guide which is the same as you posted a few posts ago. inital certificate, instrument and multi ratings require the passport.
 
I didn't check my dad's birth certificate or passport.
 
EdFred said:
I didn't check my dad's birth certificate or passport.
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Perhaps you should have.

Someone I know:

He was born in Canada - his parents claimed that they were U.S. citizens (they moved back and forth between the U.S. and Canada a few times).

He tries to enlist in the Air Force. To enlist they want proof of U.S. citizenship which at the time he was born would have required that both parents were citizens. He has his mothers birth certificate, but nothing from his father. His father claims he was born in Ohio, but the records were all at a church that burned down, etc., etc. Bottom line - he can't come up with documents to prove that he is a citizen, Air Force tells him to get lost.

He decides to move on with his life.

Some time later he gets a letter from the draft board "Greeting...".

He goes down and goes through the explanations - born in Canada, no paperwork for father, not allowed to enlist, blah blah blah.

Draft board response: "Can you prove that you are NOT a citizen?"

"Well, no."

"Welcome to the U.S. Army".

He ends up driving a tank in Korea, gets discharged, his discharge papers list him as a U.S. citizen and he uses those as his documentation/ proof of citizenship from then on.

Years later (both parents are now dead) he is gets interested in his past and tries to see what documents he can track down. He know that his parents were married in Canada so he writes for whatever records might be available – they send back his parents marriage license and his dad's birth certificate.

Oops.
 
gprellwitz said:
Interesting that neither Commercial nor Flight Instructor are included!
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Neither of these add significantly new capabilities to your piloting (or so the reasoning goes). They teach you to fly more precisely and with more skill, but they don't add new capabilities.

Look at the list:
SP/PP: Now you can actually fly a plane...big new skillset
IR: Now you can fly in a lot more weather
ME: Now you can fly a lot bigger and faster planes.

Not in the list are type ratings, which I believe also require TSA signoff.

The big issue with this (and this from someone who needs TSA approval for training as one of those nasty Canadians) is that the TSA could make this dirt-simple for everyone with a little thought.

Instead of the current system of having to register through a CFI/School, then get approval for each training event, with a ton of paperwork and $130 each time, why not allow aliens to apply to the TSA for an flight training card, with their pic on it and whatever biometrics are the fad this week. Then all the CFI needs to know is "Student needs passport/birth certificate or TSA Alien Flight Student Card" period. Students could change instructors whenever you wanted (can't now without running the paperwork and $130 shuffle again). Recordkeeping for the CFI would be dirt simple (know that endorsemen you have about having your passport or birth certificate verified by the CFI...I don't have one of those, but I do have a multi-page "Permission to initiate training" that the flight school has to keep forever)
 
tonycondon said:
on that count, i can understand your frustration. my understanding is only what i have read from the AOPA guide which is the same as you posted a few posts ago. inital certificate, instrument and multi ratings require the passport.
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Well, technically, if you Sport Pilot, then later go for PP, you'd need to go through TSA for each.

And on another note, Gliders are completely exempt, no TSA BS required at all for them...makes me want to get my glider add-on!
 
JeffDG said:
The big issue with this (and this from someone who needs TSA approval for training as one of those nasty Canadians) is that the TSA could make this dirt-simple for everyone with a little thought.

Instead of the current system of having to register through a CFI/School, then get approval for each training event, with a ton of paperwork and $130 each time, why not allow aliens to apply to the TSA for an flight training card, with their pic on it and whatever biometrics are the fad this week. Then all the CFI needs to know is "Student needs passport/birth certificate or TSA Alien Flight Student Card" period. Students could change instructors whenever you wanted (can't now without running the paperwork and $130 shuffle again). Recordkeeping for the CFI would be dirt simple (know that endorsemen you have about having your passport or birth certificate verified by the CFI...I don't have one of those, but I do have a multi-page "Permission to initiate training" that the flight school has to keep forever)
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The TSA doesn't have a line item in their budget for "TSA Alien Flight Student Cards".
 
At SIMCOM they don't require new ID if you've attended before and it's on file; which mine is for recurrent training in Orlando. At a local sim place here in the D/FW area, I looked at just getting some sim time--no rating--sign off, nothing. They want you to have a passport each time.

Sometimes, I think we are our own worst enemy.

Best,

Dave
 
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