CFI-I books/articles

[FormanFlyer]

Hey all, I start my CFI-I training next Monday, and I'm a bit of a voracious reader. So I'm interested in any articles, hand outs, or books you know of that specifically talk about or are geared towards the instrument instructor. So far I have my materials from instrument: instrument flying handbook and the ASA instrument book. Plus I've tabbed the section of Bill Kershner's book on teaching instrument and I picked up the PIC book because I saw several sections titled "for the CFI-I".

I know that's probably more than enough to get me through, but I enjoy the reading and am open to anything. Thanks!

 

[poadeleted20]

Only thing I can think of to add is the Instrument Procedures Handbook -- great reference. You can download it free at http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/instrument_procedures_handbook/
Look down a bit for the complete file suitable for iPading.

 

[FormanFlyer]

I will download it immediately, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[spiderweb]

Hey all, I start my CFI-I training next Monday, and I'm a bit of a voracious reader. So I'm interested in any articles, hand outs, or books you know of that specifically talk about or are geared towards the instrument instructor. So far I have my materials from instrument: instrument flying handbook and the ASA instrument book. Plus I've tabbed the section of Bill Kershner's book on teaching instrument and I picked up the PIC book because I saw several sections titled "for the CFI-I".

I know that's probably more than enough to get me through, but I enjoy the reading and am open to anything. Thanks!

Are you going for your CFI-IA first? Seems like an interesting move, if yes.

 

[poadeleted20]

I hope the OP knows that s/he cannot give any training in flight until the ASE rating is added to that IA rating.

 

[FormanFlyer]

Lol. Well aware, thanks though

And no, I'm not doing the I-I initial. I finished my commercial multi last, so I decided to do MEI as the initial while it was all fresh.

 

[aterpster]

I hope the OP knows that s/he cannot give any training in flight until the ASE rating is added to that IA rating.

A CFII no longer automatically applies whatever airplane ratings are on his/her airman's certificate?

I was a CFII only for many years before I added my CFIA and it worked quite well.

 

[FormanFlyer]

61.195 (c).

unsure if it used to be different or when the change happened.

 

[poadeleted20]

It was never different, but until a few years ago, some folks (including inside the FAA) were misinterpreting the regulation.

 

[aterpster]

It was never different, but until a few years ago, some folks (including inside the FAA) were misinterpreting the regulation.

So, are you saying that someone with a CFI-I only cannot give instrument dual instruction in an airplane for which he has a class rating on his airman's certificate?

If so, they why does the FAA issue a CFI-I certificate without an airplane rating?

 

[poadeleted20]

So, are you saying that someone with a CFI-I only cannot give instrument dual instruction in an airplane for which he has a class rating on his airman's certificate?

If you meant "pilot certificate" (technically, both the Flight Instructor and Pilot certificates are "Airman Certificates" -- even mechanic and dispatcher certificates are "Airman Certificates"), yes, that is true, and has always been true although not well explained until a few years ago. In order to give flight training in an aircraft, you must have the applicable category and class ratings on both your Pilot and Flight Instructor ratings. In order to give instrument flight training, you must also have the applicable instrument rating on both.

Sec. 61.195

Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.

A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:

(b) Aircraft Ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:

(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and

(2) If appropriate, a type rating.
​

BTW, even though CFI instrument ratings are category-specific (and have been since the 70's), they are instrument ratings, not category ratings, in this context.

Sec. 61.5

Certificates and ratings issued under this part.

(c) The following ratings are placed on a flight instructor certificate when an applicant satisfactorily accomplishes the training and certification requirements for the rating sought:
(1) Aircraft category ratings--
(i) Airplane.
(ii) Rotorcraft.
(iii) Glider.
(iv) Powered-lift.
(2) Airplane class ratings--
(i) Single-engine.
(ii) Multiengine.
(3) Rotorcraft class ratings--
(i) Helicopter.
(ii) Gyroplane.
(4) Instrument ratings--
(i) Instrument -- Airplane
(ii) Instrument -- Helicopter
(iii) Instrument -- Powered-lift.
(5) Sport pilot rating.

If so, they why does the FAA issue a CFI-I certificate without an airplane rating?

So you can give instrument training in a sim?

 

[aterpster]

If you meant "pilot certificate" (technically, both the Flight Instructor and Pilot certificates are "Airman Certificates" -- even mechanic and dispatcher certificates are "Airman Certificates"), yes, that is true, and has always been true although not well explained until a few years ago. In order to give flight training in an aircraft, you must have the applicable category and class ratings on both your Pilot and Flight Instructor ratings. In order to give instrument flight training, you must also have the applicable instrument rating on both.

BTW, even though CFI instrument ratings are category-specific (and have been since the 70's), they are instrument ratings, not category ratings, in this context.


So you can give instrument training in a sim?

Yes, I meant pilot certificate. It is the height of stupidity to allow issuance of ther CFI-I only then prevent its use. I did quite nicely putting instrument students through with a CFI-I only. They all had to take their rides with the FAA in those days and all passed the first time around.

The regulation is stupid.

I got my CFI-I in 1959 and didn't get my CFI-A until 1967. Adding the CFI-A didn't make me a better instrument instructor than I was before 1967. I never did want to teach primary. I added the airplane rating in 1967 because the need arose for me to give multi-engine instruction. I took the airplane rating with the FAA in an Arrow. No one required me to demonstrate my multi-engine instructional capabilities. One check ride in the Arrow and I became a multi-engine instructor.

 

[poadeleted20]

Yes, I meant pilot certificate. It is the height of stupidity to allow issuance of ther CFI-I only then prevent its use. I did quite nicely putting instrument students through with a CFI-I only. They all had to take their rides with the FAA in those days and all passed the first time around.

Nevertheless, it wasn't legal.

The regulation is stupid.

Not going to debate the wisdom of that rule.

I got my CFI-I in 1959 and didn't get my CFI-A until 1967. Adding the CFI-A didn't make me a better instrument instructor than I was before 1967. I never did want to teach primary. I added the airplane rating in 1967 because the need arose for me to give multi-engine instruction. I took the airplane rating with the FAA in an Arrow. No one required me to demonstrate my multi-engine instructional capabilities. One check ride in the Arrow and I became a multi-engine instructor.

It hasn't worked that way for a very long time.

 

[aterpster]

Nevertheless, it wasn't legal.

Not going to debate the wisdom of that rule.
It hasn't worked that way for a very long time.

I pulled up my CFI, which I kept current until 2001. It reads:

AIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE

I can't recall when my certificate assumed that format, but I presume it was simply an FAA paperwork exercise based on my instructional record when the requirement changed.

 

[poadeleted20]

I pulled up my CFI, which I kept current until 2001. It reads:

AIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE

I can't recall when my certificate assumed that format, but I presume it was simply an FAA paperwork exercise based on my instructional record when the requirement changed.

They did grandfather people for class-specific category ratings and category-specific instrument ratings when those were introduced based on previous experience, just as they did for the 61.31 additional training endorsements when they were introduced. But as I said, that was many decades ago.

 

[aterpster]

They did grandfather people for class-specific category ratings and category-specific instrument ratings when those were introduced based on previous experience, just as they did for the 61.31 additional training endorsements when they were introduced. But as I said, that was many decades ago.

"Many decades ago" I resemble that remark.

 

[poadeleted20]

"Many decades ago" I resemble that remark.

So do I -- but not as much as you. I remember when the FAA went category-specific on CFI instrument ratings, but I don't remember when they went class-specific on CFI airplane ratings. My initial CFI was 1973, and it was ASE, not Airplane.

 

[aterpster]

So do I -- but not as much as you. I remember when the FAA went category-specific on CFI instrument ratings, but I don't remember when they went class-specific on CFI airplane ratings. My initial CFI was 1973, and it was ASE, not Airplane.

My original issuance was an LFI rather than a CFI. Do you remember that one?

 

[poadeleted20]

My original issuance was an LFI rather than a CFI. Do you remember that one?

I remember references to it, but never actually saw one. I think they'd eliminated that before I started flying, but you could still trade it in for a CFI after jumping through a hoop or two. Now you have to take all the tests to turn it into a CFI.

 

[aterpster]

I remember references to it, but never actually saw one. I think they'd eliminated that before I started flying, but you could still trade it in for a CFI after jumping through a hoop or two. Now you have to take all the tests to turn it into a CFI.

You had two years to have at least an 80% pass rate of so many candidates. If not I believe it would renew. Once it was converted to a CFI it was good "forever."

Someone decided the program had more problems than solutions so they changed to CFI with a two year duration.

 

[aterpster]

An active CFI friend and I were discussing the CFI-I only today. Here is his answer:

Here are a two Q&A responses from the FAA’s older web site. This was provided by John Lynch and it was not uncommon to find CFIs with an “instrument-airplane” only rating on their instructor certificate. You’ll also find this in your Aviation Summit CD under “Frequently Asked Questions 14 CFR, Part 61.”


QUESTION: Can a Flight Instructor with only an Instrument-Airplane rating on his CFI certificate (but no Airplane Single-Engine rating on his CFI certificate), and Airplane Single-engine Land, Instrument Airplane ratings on his pilot certificate give the flight training required by § 61.65(c) for an instrument rating added to a Private Pilot Certificate-Airplane Single-engine Land?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.195(c); The answer is yes as addressed in § 61.195(c).

 

[j1b3h0]

To the OP - I highly recommend Budd Davisson's airbum.com, particularly if you fly airplanes like the one in your avatar. Because there have been so many generations of pilots and instructors who have flown nothing but airplanes with a built-in headwind...er, nosewheel, the artform of flying real airplanes has been almost lost. Davisson gets it, and explains the finer points extremely well. One could spend days wondering around his site, I know I certainly have. Read his explanation of the rudder - it's as good as it gets. I hand a copy of it to all my students.

 

[poadeleted20]

An active CFI friend and I were discussing the CFI-I only today. Here is his answer:

Here are a two Q&A responses from the FAA’s older web site. This was provided by John Lynch and it was not uncommon to find CFIs with an “instrument-airplane” only rating on their instructor certificate. You’ll also find this in your Aviation Summit CD under “Frequently Asked Questions 14 CFR, Part 61.”


QUESTION: Can a Flight Instructor with only an Instrument-Airplane rating on his CFI certificate (but no Airplane Single-Engine rating on his CFI certificate), and Airplane Single-engine Land, Instrument Airplane ratings on his pilot certificate give the flight training required by § 61.65(c) for an instrument rating added to a Private Pilot Certificate-Airplane Single-engine Land?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.195(c); The answer is yes as addressed in § 61.195(c).

John Lynch's answer was disavowed in the Federal Register by his successors at AFS-810 and that can be confirmed through the Chief Counsel's office. The holder of a CFI ticket with only an instrument rating is not repeat not authorized to give flight training of any sort. The only training that person can give is on the ground/in the sim. You must have the applicable aircraft category and, if appropriate, class rating on your CFI ticket in order to give flight training, instrument or otherwise. I'm not going to debate this here with Wally -- anyone who needs a reliable answer can get one from official FAA sources, but that answer will be the same as the one I gave you, not the one Wally is giving you.

That said, if you read 61.195(c), it only says you cannot give instrument training without instrument rating on your CFI ticket, not that you can give instrument training with only an instrument training. OTOH, paragraph (b) very clearly requires the applicable category/class ratings on your CFI in order to give flight training of any sort. If you check 61.5, you will see the clear differentiation between category/class and instrument ratings. Thus, Mr. Lynch's statement is directly contrary to the plain language of the regulations, and AFS-810 has made that clear in subsequent official publications.

 

[poadeleted20]

Turns out I was wrong -- you don't have go to the Federal Register or ask the Chief Counsel, because Taylor Grayson already did.

Your letter seeks clarification regarding the flight instructor limitations
and qualifications set forth in 14 CFR § 61.195. Specifically, you have asked whether a flight instructor who holds only an instrument-airplane rating on his or her flight instructor certificate may conduct instrument training in a single or multiengine airplane ifhe holds those ratings only on his commercial pilot's certificate.

...

Section 61.195(b), which addresses flight instructor limitations and qualifications with regard to aircraft ratings, directs that a flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which he does not hold "a pilot certificate and flight instructor certifIcate with the applicable category and class rating[.]" As such, a flight instructor is precluded from providing flight training in a specifIc class of airplane if the instructor does not have that class rating on his or her flight instructor certificate.​

​

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...terpretations/data/interps/2010/Grayson-2.pdf​

 

[aterpster]

Turns out I was wrong -- you don't have go to the Federal Register or ask the Chief Counsel, because Taylor Grayson already did.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...terpretations/data/interps/2010/Grayson-2.pdf[/LEFT]

I have attached the August 21, 2009 appropriate final rule that is cited in the Grayson letter. Because of the fiasco we had with the first rendering of the "IAF" letter (which we got reversed by my organization writing another letter) I find legal interpretations to be suspect without some good solid framework. The regulatory preamble attached does make it clear that 91.195 never has permitted a CFI-I only teach in flight for the instrument rating.

I do believe, however, that those who wrote the August 21, 2009, rule should have instead amended 61.195 to permit a CFI-I only to instruct aloft for the instrument rating in single-engine airplanes only appropriate to the class ratings on his pilot certificate.

But, they didn't so they rendered the CFI-I to be no different than a Ground Instructor with Instruments on his Ground Instructors certificate. In the alternative to so amending 61.195 they should have cancelled any further issuance of CFI-I only certificates and given notice to the then-present holders of such that their certificates were immediately dormant until (unless) they jumped through the hoops to add an aircraft class rating to their CFI certificate.

 

[poadeleted20]

I have attached the August 21, 2009 appropriate final rule that is cited in the Grayson letter. Because of the fiasco we had with the first rendering of the "IAF" letter (which we got reversed by my organization writing another letter) I find legal interpretations to be suspect without some good solid framework. The regulatory preamble attached does make it clear that 91.195 never has permitted a CFI-I only teach in flight for the instrument rating.

Glad we agree on that.

I do believe, however, that those who wrote the August 21, 2009, rule should have instead amended 61.195 to permit a CFI-I only to instruct aloft for the instrument rating in single-engine airplanes only appropriate to the class ratings on his pilot certificate.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion, although I don't agree with it. If I were amending rules, I'd make an appropriate instructor aircraft category rating a prerequisite for an instructor instrument rating, just as it is for pilot certificates. Either way, the rule is what it is, and it's the way AFS-800 wants it.

But, they didn't so they rendered the CFI-I to be no different than a Ground Instructor with Instruments on his Ground Instructors certificate.

Ground Instructors are not authorized to give sim training. However, because sim training is not "flight training," a CFI-I is authorized to give training in a sim, whether s/he has an aircraft category rating or not.

In the alternative to so amending 61.195 they should have cancelled any further issuance of CFI-I only certificates and given notice to the then-present holders of such that their certificates were immediately dormant until (unless) they jumped through the hoops to add an aircraft class rating to their CFI certificate.

Except they aren't "dormant" -- they can give ground/sim training for instrument ratings and IPC's, and always have been able to do those things. And, as I said, being able to give training in sims is a privilege CFI-I's have always had which GI-I's have not.

 

[aterpster]

Except they aren't "dormant" -- they can give ground/sim training for instrument ratings and IPC's, and always have been able to do those things. And, as I said, being able to give training in sims is a privilege CFI-I's have always had which GI-I's have not.

FWIW, When I first obtained my ground instructor certificate, there were either 8 or 9 ratings. One of them was Link Trainer Operator (LTO), the "simulator" (of sorts) of the day.

My recollection may be faulty but I beleve you had to have the LTO rating to give instrument instruction in the trainer.

 

[dtuuri]

Ground Instructors are not authorized to give sim training.

Why not? I see no prohibitions and back in the 1960s I got six or seven hours of Link time by a sim instructor who was not even a pilot. She used to be a Navy instructor, too, IIRC.

My reading of the definitions in Part 61 indicates a ground instructor can log the time as 'pilot' when giving sim instruction too. They're an 'authorized instructor'.

dtuuri

 

[poadeleted20]

Why not?

Because the Chief Counsel said so. Go look -- it's there in the Gatlin letter.

 

[gprellwitz]

Because the Chief Counsel said so. Go look -- it's there in the Gatlin letter.

And, just to make it easier for others (and because I needed to look myself)...
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../interpretations/data/interps/2010/Gatlin.pdf

 

[dtuuri]

Because the Chief Counsel said so. Go look -- it's there in the Gatlin letter.

Yet another hum-dinger out of the Chief Counsel. Don't they ever sleep?

FWIW, if a simulator isn't 'ground instruction', it isn't 'flight instruction' either, IMO. Just 'cause a CFI can operate an airplane doesn't indicate s/he can operate a sim. Go figr.

dtuuri