CFI for Cessna 207 Check Ride Needed

Colanyc

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Colanyc
Hi All:

Recently acquired a Cessna T207 (7 seater) and need a CFI that is rated for the plane to check ride two pilots, myself and a CFI, for insurance. I need 15 hours for the Insurance to cover, my CFI may need less. We're located at KHPN in Westchester, NY. Looking for someone in the Northeast if possible since most T207 CFI's are in Alaska. Thanks everyone for the help.
 
I can't help you but when you do find someone, make sure you fly with the airplane loaded and maybe towards the aft CG a few times. It is a different animal loaded as opposed to two people onboard.
 
Thanks Greg. Yes I understand that's the case, and part of the reason for a 15 hour check ride needed which is longer than usual. Appreciate it.
 
I have exactly .5 Cessna 207 time. It was a repositioning flight and I was the sole occupant. But I watched the company pilots check out new guys. They would load the thing up toward the aft CG and one of the rampers would be casually standing by the tail. What he was really doing was holding it up so it wouldn't end up on the ground. I never understood how that could still be within the CG range. I guess the gear was a little further forward than it should have been.

Anyway, I assume it was within CG because we never lost a plane.
 
A C-207 is a mac truck in the air. We called them sleds in Alaska because they replaced the dog sleds.

We would load them until the tail hit the ground. When the pilot gets in the seat then the CG is back in the envelope.

I know a certain pilot that carried lumber on a 207. He took all the seats out, including pilot/copilot seats, loaded the lumber, then put the pilot/copilot seats in the back, sat on the lumber and took off. It flew just fine.

I have about 3500 hours in a 206/7 and would be happy to help you. Too bad I am in the southwest US.
 
Rated in the plane? We are talking about the US, right? Other countries have type ratings for piston singles, but not the US.

Bob Gardner
 
What does a insurance company consider a qualified instructor ? Do they have language that says the instructor needs to have X number of hours in model? Seems to me any CFI that is SEL is technically qualified to instruct in any SEL aircraft barring the type rating required airplanes.
 
While that is true, the insurance company would consider someone with extensive 207 time qualified to instruct. As it should be. That is a common sense thing.

In a lot of cases, it isn't the FAA making the rules, it is the insurance company.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone. Insurance is being very specific about time in type and CFI both, which from their perspective makes a lot of sense.

Billy, any tips on what can bite you in the 207 other than aft CG and being behind the power curve? I've seen guys come in on final with only 10 degrees of flaps and drive it onto the runway, but all my experience in 172's, 182's and 206's has mostly been with 30 degrees to slow her down. Would be greatful for any advice before I fly the sled!
 
Thanks for the advice everyone. Insurance is being very specific about time in type and CFI both, which from their perspective makes a lot of sense.

Billy, any tips on what can bite you in the 207 other than aft CG and being behind the power curve? I've seen guys come in on final with only 10 degrees of flaps and drive it onto the runway, but all my experience in 172's, 182's and 206's has mostly been with 30 degrees to slow her down. Would be greatful for any advice before I fly the sled!


If you have flown a 206 then there really isn't much difference, just the 207 is longer. I always used the same power settings and airspeeds on the 206 and 207. When I was in Alaska the FAA considered a checkride in a 207 good for the 206 as well. The 207 is a really stable plane, good control feel but forward visibility is reduced during the flare for landing. If I remember right the 206 max gross weight is 3600 and the 207 is 3800.

Since all my flying in a 206/7 was short and possibly soft field, I always used full flaps for landing and 10 degrees for take off. Just keep your speed up on final but don't get too fast or it will bounce like a basketball on touchdown.

As for the T part, just remember to slowly reduce power. I used to pull 3 inches for the first power reduction, then 1 inch per thousand feet until in the pattern. It takes a little planning and practice but quickly becomes normal operations, especially if you are paying for the engine.:lol:

As others have stated, get some flight time with 4 or 5 other people on board to get used to the extra weight. Don't carry survival gear in the nose baggage compartment as it is the first part of the plane that crushes in the event of a unplanned off airport landing. Make sure that any passenger sitting next to the rear door understands how to open and close and secure the door.

Some of my most memorable (and terrifying) flight time was in the C-206/7 up in Alaska. If I wasn't so darn old I would go back for a couple more years.
 
Thanks for the detailed advice Billy. I was thinking of adding the tip tanks since I understand the plane may handle better (other than the extended range of course). Easier to land, better climb and a bit faster, etc. Any thoughts on that or have you flown one with tips? Also thinking of putting the cargo pod on it but not sure how much it degrades performance.

I know they serve completely different purposes, but if the budget were limited, which would you chose from your experience?

Also this is a turbo, any thoughts on handling the power from your experience as you come down and get on final?

Thank you
 
Minor correction on the title, you need a Check Out, not a Check Ride. The only time you would need a Check Ride in a 207 is to qualify in it to fly Pt 135, and that would have to be with an Examiner, not just any CFI.
 
I suggest you talk to your ins agent a bit more. I understand their side of it but it is unreasonable to insist you get your CFI checked out too. I've been through this several times before. I think you should earnestly seek to reduce their requirement for CFI. An ATP or commercial pilot with 207 times should suffice.

IIRC, the 206 and 207 have different wings. Best glide actually exists for a 206, for a 207 anything not under the cowl is beyond glide range. It always felt like the 206 was a hot rod and could fly circles around the 207.
 
I can't help you but when you do find someone, make sure you fly with the airplane loaded and maybe towards the aft CG a few times.
You say that as if it is possible to load it up near Gross WITHOUT having an aft-CG. :)

any tips on what can bite you in the 207 other than aft CG and being behind the power curve?
I flew Grand Canyon tours in the C-207 (and C-402) in 1990, flying it in all sorts of temps and winds. Biggest challenge, that I recall, was its ground handling, especially when heavy. The brakes and steering have to be "managed", and they don't have enough authority, and correct crosswind correction is essential as the airplane has a tendency to head for the corn field when the nose wheel touches down. Heavy, with an aft-CG, you may (i.e. WILL) need to apply nose-down elevator pressure to get descent nose wheel steering control.
 
So, most problems seem to stem from the ability to stuff the plane to the gills and miraculously be still within CG limits. (And hope for the best!).

The mission is based on some voluminous, but not particularly heavy items, so I'll be mindful of loading it close to max with aft loading close to the limits, but it shouldn't be very often that it is an issue. That said, is it better to put a Cargo Pod on the plane and move some of the things in the back to be under the belly? If so does anyone have experience whether the pod degrades performance too much?

Also, curious if anyone has flown them with the Flint Tip tanks. I understand the plane actually handles better, gets better climb, and a few knots faster, but it's mostly hearsay... Thanks!
 
Thanks for the detailed advice Billy. I was thinking of adding the tip tanks since I understand the plane may handle better (other than the extended range of course). Easier to land, better climb and a bit faster, etc. Any thoughts on that or have you flown one with tips? Also thinking of putting the cargo pod on it but not sure how much it degrades performance.

I know they serve completely different purposes, but if the budget were limited, which would you chose from your experience?

Also this is a turbo, any thoughts on handling the power from your experience as you come down and get on final?

Thank you

The wings are different between the 206 and the 207. I have had two partial power failures in the 207 but was near enough to a landing spot (notice I didn't say airport) so I never had to try to stretch the glide.

I flew a 206 with the Flint Tip tanks, but I really didn't notice any difference. Maybe a little more stable during slow flight. We never used them because we wanted the weight for revenue.

The 207 has never been mistaken for a speed queen. As far as the belly pod, it does slow it down a little. We had tundra tires and there is reduction in speed for that as well. The pod makes it a little harder to sump the header tanks. The pod can get wet inside during flight through light rain. We also had problems with oil getting in the pod, but that is where we carried spare oil. Remember that I did extreme flying in the bush. The planes I flew were not beauty queens by anyone's standards. They were loaded to the gills, flown hard on short, gravel and sometimes soft rural strips and off airport. That could have been part of why the pod did not seal well.

As far as crosswind landings were concerned, I always considered any wind less than the max cross wind reference as a calm wind. I have landed in wind strong enough to have to land in a crab, but on gravel or snow the plane just slid in the crab until slow enough to align the nose wheel with the landing strip.

As far as the turbo goes, it is like any other turbocharged plane. I only flew one 207T and I would pull 3 inches 5 minutes before starting the decent. After that I would go 1 inch per minute or 1 inch per thousand feet until in the pattern. It only takes a little practice to get used to hitting your target power setting at pattern altitude. After landing I waited until the exhaust gas temperature was below 800 degrees (I think) before shutting the engine down. On landing I only pushed the prop up to 2500 RPM to help reduce noise. This was not a problem in the bush, it was just something I did to be nice. %$#& white people would get flaky at the noise. It didn't bother the eskimo.

I did do some 98 degree weather in Fairbanks. Just as any other piston plane it climbed out a little slower and I kept an eye on temperatures.

I don't know if ice will be a problem in your area of operations. I have had as much as an inch of ice on the leading edges and it flew well as I tried to get out of the icing conditions. Anymore and I would lose either altitude or airspeed. I found the 207 as a stable IFR platform. We were restricted to day/night VFR operations only but with the sudden weather changes in Alaska that is not always possible. And nights in Alaska can be really dark with no reference to any hope of horizon.

I hope I am giving you some useful information. Please feel free to ask anything on the 207, and if I know or remember I will be glad to share.
 
Hi Billy, thank you, this is super helpful.

Hopefully I won't encounter too much icing, but I'm in the Northeast so always a possibility. I know they don't make after market boots or de-ice systems for the 207.

OK on the power. similar to the T182, perhaps a bit slower and more methodical process.

That's great about the crossing component. In addition to the cessna's, I also fly Cubs a lot. It will be nice to have a pretty solid aircraft for some of the crosswind up where I fly. It seems one of the runways I fly into was built precisely to have a 90 degree crosswind… some prankster.

OK on the cargo pod and the tips. The options are not cheap and was wondering if they are worth it.

Appreciate all the help and the time to write this.
 
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