CFI, CFII training suggestions

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Martymccasland

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M.McCasland
I recently purchased an A36 Bonanza and decided to get my commercial license as a part of the 10 hours of insurance-required dual training (an excellent way to transition to a new plane, IMO -- doing max performance maneuvers and getting a sense of the limits of a plane instead of tip-toeing around for months or more).

With that out of the way, my CFI suggested that I continue with my CFI license since everything is fresh on the mind -- he mentioned it's a similar ride, except with the training/teaching elements added. I responded that I have no desire at all teaching people how to fly; however, I would enjoy teaching existing pilots about the instrument rating / instrument flying.

My CFI responded, "there's no rule you have to get the CFI. You could just skip it and do the CFII test and practical instead." I didn't realize it was possible... Any advice on doing so / skipping or not skipping the CFI / etc.?

Thanks in advance for the comments
 
Your instructor does not understand the regulations and the FAA's interpretations thereof. See the Grayson letter -- if you get a Flight Instructor certificate with only Instrument-Airplane rating, you can instruct only on the ground in the classroom or the sim, not in an aircraft in flight. You have more privileges than a GI-I, as you can give sim instruction, but that's all.
 
The CFI check ride is a LOT more than just flying from the right seat. It took me about 10hrs of rights seat flying, but the 30+ on the ground and countless weeks preparing shouldn't be discounted.

Go for the commercial, it is a fun rating.
 
ja_user said:
The CFI check ride is a LOT more than just flying from the right seat. It took me about 10hrs of rights seat flying, but the 30+ on the ground and countless weeks preparing shouldn't be discounted.

Go for the commercial, it is a fun rating.
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Thanks for the response... I just completed the commercial and was trying to decide to just stop or keep going while my mind is in FAA-mode and a good bit of the FAR-AIM stuff is fresh... Teaching basic flying has little appeal, but teaching the instrument rating would be something I'd enjoy.... Trying to decide to push-through or just stop where I'm at...

I could see the right seat thing taking a while. I'm not sure how I'd accomplish that in the A36 without hiring a CFI / my insurance has a pretty high threshold for open pilots... Short of another mutli-year Bonanza owner, few would qualify (350 hrs min in model). Yet, I certainly wouldn't want to do it without someone fully qualified sitting in the left seat. Doubly so if metal ever got bent and insurance starts checking to see if all the t's were crossed and i's dotted...
 
You can take the CFII as the more difficult initial checkride with the FSDO, and then add on the CFI later with a DPE. But you must do them back to back, as the CFII by itself is worthless without the CFI add on.

Its funny how the rules work that way, but that's the way it is. I'm doing the CFII first and then doing the CFI as an add on with the DPE at my home field.

I'm still about a month away from scheduling the CFII checkride but i've been working on it quite a bit. It looks like i'll need about 5-8 hours of flying right seat and about 15 hours of 1 on 1 ground instruction. Plus lots of studying on my own and creating lesson plans etc..

On and congrats on the new Bonanza.
 
There is no doubt a benefit to doing the commercial back to back with the CFI, if you need them both.

My only point was, flying is typically not the hard part of the CFI prep and ride. Flying from the right seat is fun/challenging. The ground stuff is what will have you cursing the rating by the time you are done :)
 
dell30rb said:
...as the CFII by itself is worthless without the CFI add on.
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Not completely worthless, as you can give ground training including instructing in the sim (which GI-I's cannot do), just no flight training until you add an Airplane category rating.
 
dell30rb said:
You can take the CFII as the more difficult initial checkride with the FSDO, and then add on the CFI later with a DPE. But you must do them back to back, as the CFII by itself is worthless without the CFI add on.

Its funny how the rules work that way, but that's the way it is. I'm doing the CFII first and then doing the CFI as an add on with the DPE at my home field.

I'm still about a month away from scheduling the CFII checkride but i've been working on it quite a bit. It looks like i'll need about 5-8 hours of flying right seat and about 15 hours of 1 on 1 ground instruction. Plus lots of studying on my own and creating lesson plans etc..

On and congrats on the new Bonanza.
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Around here and some other districts I can think of, your initial CFI ride is also with a DPE.
 
Henning said:
Around here and some other districts I can think of, your initial CFI ride is also with a DPE.
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Depends on the FSDO's workload at the time. Around here, the DPE to whom they farm out initials is a retired inspector from this FSDO, so don't expect anything less intense than the one you'd get at the FSDO.
 
Ron Levy said:
Depends on the FSDO's workload at the time. Around here, the DPE to whom they farm out initials is a retired inspector from this FSDO, so don't expect anything less intense than the one you'd get at the FSDO.
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You don't get 3 guys from maintenance pouring over the airplane is what I hear the schools like.
 
Henning said:
You don't get 3 guys from maintenance pouring over the airplane is what I hear the schools like.
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Yep -- more than one checkrides at our local FSDO have resulted in the applicant's plane sitting on the ramp / local shop for a few days before continuing the exam...
 
I found the CFI stuff to be quite fun. I think I flew 11 hours from the right seat but I have no idea how much I did on the ground as I did it all self-study. I'd guess at least 40 hours or so. During my CFI ride the inspector flew a little less than half the time which actually made it quite fun, especially when I had to help him on the landing. It's not as fun as the commercial, but it is pretty rewarding to get done... you could always get the CFI and concentrate on advanced students like commercial students or Bonanza transitions, not just instrument ratings. I've got a guy wanting me to transition him from a PA-28 to a TR182 that is right up my alley because I have 200+ hours of R182 time... those are the ones that I really like.
 
poadeleted20 said:
Your instructor does not understand the regulations and the FAA's interpretations thereof. See the Grayson letter -- if you get a Flight Instructor certificate with only Instrument-Airplane rating, you can instruct only on the ground in the classroom or the sim, not in an aircraft in flight. You have more privileges than a GI-I, as you can give sim instruction, but that's all.
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In a recent conversation about if a CFII who has only a CFII (no CFI) can give flight instruction in an airplane, the FAA has reaffirmed that as a no.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../2012/beard - (2012) legal interpretation.pdf

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...0/grayson-2 - (2010) legal interpretation.pdf

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...2/kortokrax - (2012) legal interpretation.pdf
 
Looks like according to the Beard interpretation, someone who holds only a CFI-I cannot do sim training, either.

I hadn't seen that one before...thanks. Now saved in my "FAA Legal" folder.
 
CFI is the hardest ride I've ever taken, also the cheapest, that's as a ATP working pilot.

Best advice tutor folks
 
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