CFI and student die in crash SMO

indeed. so why would we install a mechanism that can render them useless?

Only so the student pilot in the left seat doesn't kill you. If you don't have any student pilots in the left seat, or if you're confident that they won't try to kill you, then it doesn't apply. Along the lines of why they often put chaff dispensers on fighter aircraft, but not too much on business jets.

In 2014, from the NAL report, there were more fatalities in GA instructional flights (32) than US fixed wing pilots lost during Desert Storm (28). Part of that is because of the exceptional skill and training of US Navy, Air Force, and Marine pilots. Part of that could be that a student pilot is more dangerous to your health as a CFI than a radar guided 23mm cannon is to a jet aircraft.
 
In 2014, from the NAL report, there were more fatalities in GA instructional flights (32) than US fixed wing pilots lost during Desert Storm (28).


Without normalizing this by number of flight hours it is an absolutely meaningless statistic.


Part of that could be that a student pilot is more dangerous to your health as a CFI than a radar guided 23mm cannon is to a jet aircraft.

Utter BS. See above about the statistic being completely meaningless.
 
I had a passenger in the co-pilot seat once that panicked. I don't know what caused him to panic. He just started kicking his legs around and flailing his arms about.

I put my right elbow in his left ear a few times and that seemed to calm him down.
 
I really like the explosive bracelet idea. I think you're on to something there. If that's too extreme, maybe just some explosive rings on the middle 3 strong fingers. Wouldn't need to be as powerful, or leave as much mess, plus the student would still have stubs to be able to feed themselves, and might even be able to get a SODA now that they've been cured of the death grip.
 
Without normalizing this by number of flight hours it is an absolutely meaningless statistic.

Utter BS. See above about the statistic being completely meaningless.

It might seem meaningless, but it's not. Desert storm was the largest air action the US has been in since Vietnam, even though it only most of it was flown in a couple of months. We had more flight crew casualties during that conflict than during any other period since Vietnam as well. More targets were engaged during that war than the targets hit during 1942 and 1943 combined in Europe during WW2. It was far from a lightweight operation, and it was far from a safe operating environment. We lost aircraft of almost every type. Yet, during an average year we can lose more civilians to training flights, here in the safe old USA.

Putting it in terms of flight hours doesn't make it look any better. From the AF numbers, we flew over 100k sorties during that war, and at an average duration of 4+ hours, that's over 400k hours. Contrast that to around 20k private pilot, with maybe 35 hours dual, and you have 700k hours of instruction. It's not apples to apples, and the hours may not be the same, but they're also not out of line. The rough numbers tell me that being a CFI is comparable in risk to being a US pilot in combat.

The ZU-23 thing? If you're in a US tactical aircraft, and that's the only thing the bad guys have, flight instruction is way more dangerous. I'll leave it to someone else to do that math.
 
Without normalizing this by number of flight hours it is an absolutely meaningless statistic.

Utter BS. See above about the statistic being completely meaningless.
difficult to have a conversation with that guy. apparently a rapid disconnect for the flight controls would make flying a C172 as safe as flying combat missions in Iraq
 
On the plus side I now understand the root cause of a lot of non-training accidents now. On the negative side, I'm not sure how most folks figure out how to get out of a grocery store on their own. But that's OK. Everyone muddles along at their own speed.
 
I saw a video that showed a 172, and said that there is a bar under the panel that connects the yokes. In a situation where the yoke is pulled and held back, the right side passenger can step on that bar and move the controls forward. It's been decades since I've been in a 172, so I can't vouch for this.
 
As a new student just about to take his second flight (and a few months sim time)...
Debrief after the first one, CFI gave me a 9 out of 10- the point lost was for being too "timid" banking. Guess I'll take that over being too aggressive. I was certainly conscious enough to gently add backpressure when we reached rotation speed when taking off. Interestingly, this was one aspect (yoke pressure) that was pretty close to the real thing using the Honeycomb yoke.

After reading about this incident, and others resulting from potentially deadly control inputs from new students- gives me a whole 'nother level of concern for my son who's just been assigned to be a T-6 IP in the AF. Prolly not a fair analogy, as his future students will have had some flight training in IFT- but hey, I'm a parent...
 
As a new student just about to take his second flight (and a few months sim time)...
Debrief after the first one, CFI gave me a 9 out of 10- the point lost was for being too "timid" banking. Guess I'll take that over being too aggressive. I was certainly conscious enough to gently add backpressure when we reached rotation speed when taking off. Interestingly, this was one aspect (yoke pressure) that was pretty close to the real thing using the Honeycomb yoke.

After reading about this incident, and others resulting from potentially deadly control inputs from new students- gives me a whole 'nother level of concern for my son who's just been assigned to be a T-6 IP in the AF. Prolly not a fair analogy, as his future students will have had some flight training in IFT- but hey, I'm a parent...
My first couple of steep turns were a bit too timid as well.
As for taking off, closing my eyes now, l can hear the voice of my CFI "gently" reminding me of the airspeed to be maintained. And the first few times I could feel him making small corrections on the controls as well.

I keep reminding myself of the trust that my CFI puts in me. He's a pretty small guy and we would easily have a big problem if I made a bad mistake in these critical phases of flight. I am reminded again after the young female CFI that was just killed in VA. I don't want to read about any more instructors or students being killed by doing what they love.

I said this in another thread, (maybe this one) but the words "my controls" from his mouth are akin to the word of God to me.
 
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I saw a video that showed a 172, and said that there is a bar under the panel that connects the yokes. In a situation where the yoke is pulled and held back, the right side passenger can step on that bar and move the controls forward. It's been decades since I've been in a 172, so I can't vouch for this.
Here is a video describing the bar, starts at 10:40...

 
After reading about this incident, and others resulting from potentially deadly control inputs from new students- gives me a whole 'nother level of concern for my son who's just been assigned to be a T-6 IP in the AF. Prolly not a fair analogy, as his future students will have had some flight training in IFT- but hey, I'm a parent...

Your son will be dealing with primary students; it's a fun but very laborious job. Did it for 3.5 years. Excellent TPIC gaining opportunity. High-quality time all around, considering in the civie world single engine turboprop time is generally derided as "low-quality" time.

The aircraft is very mild, as a primary trainer ought to be. Think of it as an oversized Bonanza with 1100HP up front. That's about how it flies and lands. 80 knot rotation, it's a cat B plane.

At any rate, the flying is exceedingly regimented, and the talent pool highly parsed through. In short, very very tight sigma. Outliers are even more rare and the program is very effective at identifying weak swimmers for attrition. The DoD doesn't have a problem dealing with sunk cost fallacies, nature of the beast.

As a new FAIP, your son will have supervisory eyes on him as well. It's a mentoring process all around, not just for student pilots. The level of responsibility is very high though, as first assignments go. It's an honor and great responsibility, one I hope he takes seriously.

I only had a few students lock up on me on it; one got his boot stuck on top of the pedal in the middle of a spin. That was fun. The dangerous part is not going to be lock-ups, but improper reactions during close formation flying (breaking in the direction of the wingman instead of away et al). He'll learn all about defensive IP techniques from my peers on the 559th side when he goes through T-6 PIT. He's in good hands.
 
I only had a few students lock up on me on it; one got his boot stuck on top of the pedal in the middle of a spin. That was fun. The dangerous part is not going to be lock-ups, but improper reactions during close formation flying (breaking in the direction of the wingman instead of away et al). He'll learn all about defensive IP techniques from my peers on the 559th side when he goes through T-6 PIT. He's in good hands.
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Gonzo,
Thanks for the positivity! He's leaving for PIT next month with one of the T-1 guys, and his head's definitely in the right place. I have no doubt he'll get the best instructor training in the world from some of the world's best aviators such as yourself.
When I was at OKC waiting for the flight home last month, there were a handful of T-6's doing t&g's on their cross-country; I was watching out the airport windows. True acrobatic aircraft. Typical looking climb for a bit, then they'd bank right and go damned near vertical. I was watching them on ADS-B and they were hitting near 3,500 FPM climb rate- they look like they'd be a blast to fly. He mentioned he'd have to get used to using the rudder again, after the T-38 :)

Sorry- back on topic!
 
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