Cessna Will Offer Epic Optix Low Cost HUD

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Sinistar, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. Sinistar

    Sinistar Cleared for Takeoff

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    This short article came across my newfeed:

    https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Cessna-Will-Offer-Epic-Optixs-Low-Cost-HUD-230669-1.html

    So it would seem since this is a portable, that Cessna will just sell it at a discount but it is not installed, certified equipment?

    So what is the potential value of a non-certified HUD to a GA VFR pilot? How about IFR pilot? I'm guessing it needs Foreflight but not sure.

    Too bad it so large looking. When I think of HUD's they seem rather small and unobtrustive but I supposed all the other parts are probably down below the dash.
     
  2. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Obstructive and extraneous information in my opinion. If you’re flying IFR, then just fly off your panel. So your head is tilted down slightly. Not really an inconvenience. Not like you could fly IFR off this HUD anyway. If you’re flying VFR, then 90 % of the time you should be looking outside anyway. A quick glance inside for engine instruments isn’t hard.

    Flown hundreds of hours of NVG HUD. The symbology is just an annoyance. It’s tech for gadget geeks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  3. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    With all the glass in the panel,not sure I’m ready for HUD.
     
  4. Sinistar

    Sinistar Cleared for Takeoff

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    I have zero interest in having this...was just curious what value it would potentially add. It is so big I think it would be very intrusive. Plus I think one would tend to not look st instruments often enough.

    Now I could see a fancy Gxxx series certified Garmin gadget driving it, the extra hardware behind the panel and someone like Cirrus offering it nicely integrated.
     
  5. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    I'd like to hear the opinions of pilots (mostly military, I would assume?) who have actual HUD time, and how that might translate into something useful for GA.

    - for IFR, how is it advantageous to the current synthetic vision options?
    - for a VFR pilot is there any real advantage? (Maybe projecting the AOA might reduce loss of control accidents?)

    The Boeing 787 has a HUD. My brother, who has thousands of hours of HUD time in the military, likes it for low viz hand flown approaches. But he said a lot of the pilots, especially those who came out of Airbuses, don't.
     
  6. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Yeah, if it was slaved to the aircraft’s flight instruments & avionics, that’s one thing. This is just a feed from a tablet. I wouldn’t fly IFR solely off a WiFi input from a tablet. I’d rather gaze 6 inches lower to a full color glass SVT panel vs green monochrome imagery.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  7. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Line Up and Wait

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    For me, I like that it simplifies the instrument to visual transition as you’re already looking over the nose of the aircraft. Everything you need (attitude, airspeed, altitude, heading, AOA) is right there in your face. The second and most important aspect of the HUD that most of us use is the Velocity Vector. The little airplane silhouette overlaid on a gyro stabilized pitch ladder that shows you what your airplane is currently doing (climb, descend, turn), where it is going (put the velocity vector on the approach end of the runway, change nothing, and that’s where you’ll impact), and is frequently combined with some type of AOA reference (how much excess/deficient energy do I have on the airplane and is it changing). There’s probably other things to, but those come to mind first...
     
  8. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Yeah, right. Extraneous, redundant, useless. That's why every military aircraft flown by the US has one. You bet.
     
  9. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Every military aircraft in the US doesn’t have one and the ones that do, have it slaved to on board systems. This HUD doesn’t do that. Also, the nature of tactical military ops require the pilot to be focused outside (targeting, carrier landing, NOE). A guy flying his VFR Cessna doesn’t require that sort of attention to instruments. It’s just gadget overkill.

    Even the one that I used, the instrumentation isn’t intuitive. You have to focus in on the HUD and refocus to the outside viewing area. It’s easier to just to concentrate on the outside viewing area and occasionally glance inside to easy to read panel instruments.

    8ED2E98C-2956-45D4-85E7-87EA4A733774.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  10. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

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    It seems awkward. No airspeed indications. You'll have to keep glancing back at your panel for that. The velocity vector is nice, but it would be just as nice on a synthetic vision panel display.

    A built-in HUD with airspeed, barometric altitude, links to the aircraft systems is great. It seems they are working on ways to interface it with the aircraft instruments.
     
  11. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Line Up and Wait

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    Without air data, this HUD is undoubtedly a toy. I looked into this fairly extensively since the announcement since I am one of those "HUD" people. But I use the HUD for very specific applications, and without air data it's a useless tool. It's only marginally useful with air data if it doesn't include navigation, which Epic Optix's tool doesn't appear to do beyond whatever can be output from an iPad. I also looked through the process to get the Epic Optix Eagle up and running. It's a seventeen step process of dinking with the iPad, setting up Airplay (yes, screen mirroring is how this works) and so on.

    This is not ready for prime time. It's just a toy right now, but a better iteration may be coming.

    To be clear, I'm not anti-HUD, nor am I anti-HUD for GA. I just think the benefits of the HUD are from a true integrated display on the combiner, not a half-ass ADI only with ground speed and GPS altitude instead of true air data.
     
  12. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I agree, I’m not anti HUD either. It has its place mostly in military aviation due to the flight profiles they do.

    For civilian flying I don’t see much of a benefit other than those doing hard IFR or those that fly a lot at night. In that case, I would want EVS along with integration with certified instruments/ avionics. That ain’t gonna happen for 2K.

    http://www.gulfstream.com/product-support/product-enhancements/enhanced-vision-system
     
  13. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Line Up and Wait

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    That's the exact system I use for work, HUD II with EVS. It's a nice unit, but I still only use it selectively. EVS is the main benefit. We take advantage of the 100 foot allowance for EVS, which makes it feel almost like a Cat II approach in some situations.

    I suppose very precise flying via the HUD symbology FD is possible, but I feel pretty precise with a PFD, too.

    The idea behind the HUD is to put everything in one place so you don't have to look away while you're flying. When it only puts "some" of what you need on the combiner, or worse yet, information you can't/shouldn't use (such as ground speed and GPS altitude) it's more of a liability than a benefit.

    But it's nice to see we're moving ahead with technology in GA. This is just the first crack at it; there will be more, and better options over time.
     
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  14. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    Loved the demo video.... The pilot was transfixed staring through the HUD and not looking around. Peripheral vision goes to ZERO with the tunnel vision through this device.
     
  15. Sinistar

    Sinistar Cleared for Takeoff

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    Check out the parallel thread on the Hangar Talk subforum by @WannFly....I was transfixed too....on the 182 pilot :) I think Steveo was too!!! They only talked about the HUD for a few minutes.
     
  16. Rc1047

    Rc1047 Filing Flight Plan

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    My experience with a HUD comes from military aircraft. For GA I see several advantages and don’t consider them toys. The flight path symbol or velocity vector, if from a responsive & accurate source is invaluable along with the horizontal “horizon” line. On final, put the velocity vector on the numbers. Fly angle of attack (which also needs to be in the HUD) & when 20 or so feet above the numbers, reduce power & keep the velocity vector on the same point on the runway. This will result in a perfect flare & touchdown. Try it on your SIM before you knock it.

    Try steep turns. Just hold the velocity vector on the horizontal line using back forces & small bank angle adjustments. This will give you the perfect outside picture of the horizon, especially when it’s not well defined as in mountainous areas or haze.

    At 200 & 1/2 when breaking out, the velocity vector shows where you’ll land. Move it where you want to land with the stick. If airspeed or AOA is right there, that’s the only scan you need to safely land.

    I’m looking to get the flight data from the flight systems directly to the HUD. Takes a vision & innovative EFIS manufacturers to break the paradigm.

    I agree the Epic Optix may not be quite ready for prime time, but it’s a good start.

    Flying using a HUD has high potential for improving safety.
     
  17. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    Instead of spending $2000 for this huge, fancy rig, how's about dropping $40 for this here little thang?

    https://www.fixdapp.com/vizr

    It's supposed to work with whatever app you want, so should work with your EFB, right?
     
  18. Rc1047

    Rc1047 Filing Flight Plan

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    Not a solution I would consider for my flying. But, cute.
     
  19. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    No "system" that doesn't get air data from your pitot system will be either accurate or a replacement for your panel. But anything is better than nothing, and this el cheapo can at least put the inaccurate, GPS-built fake 5-pack on the windshield in the event that you are stressed out and overloaded. And it's 1/50th the price of the epic unit (yes, 2%).

    No experience with either one, but as "anti-handheld cell phone" laws continue to tighten up, I'm debating this little toy--less looking sideways / down in heavy traffic on unfamiliar roads (fresh experience, I drove to the far side of Atlanta today with my tablet on the seat beside me--ugh!).

    P.S.--this toy (vizr) doesn't create anything, it only projects your phone screen onto the windshield. What is created, and its accuracy, are up to whoever programmed whatever app you are running . . .
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  20. Challenged

    Challenged Pattern Altitude

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    I haven't done it myself, but if any of you are interested in trying something like this on the cheap, there's a free Android EFIS app that will work with a HUD here. It has a display mode specifically for use with HUD hardware. It'll also work with a Stratux, I believe, so you should be able to get decently accurate AHRS.
     
  21. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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  22. Challenged

    Challenged Pattern Altitude

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    I'm tempted to download the code for KWIK EFIS (that I linked above) and see if I can add support for the Levil BOM data stream, that would give you accurate air data on the HUD, along with accurate AHRS.