Ed Haywood
Final Approach
As does the JFK Jr crash.
Cessna Twin down in Central Texas
- Thread starter david.h
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As does the JFK Jr crash.
Say what?
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Works in mine too (depending upon loading). Also, taking off with full power, and maintaining 7 degrees nose up with a positive climb rate as a good go-to in the Mooney. And I've been told that 7 degrees of initial climb angle following liftoff also works in some transport category airline aircraft too (but don't know if that's true or not).
Doc Holliday
En-Route
Initial climb in most transports is V2+10 and target pitch is 15 degrees plus (depending on weight, temperature, etc)
7.5 - 10deg nose up is roughly equal to Vy and what I teach to instrument students.
The same is not necessarily true in larger turbine aircraft.
davela
Pre-Flight
Weather maybe, but no airplane can be expected to handle a thunderstorm, in this case perhaps only an incipient one, still dangerous none-the-less. Throw in other factors like perhaps a lack of significant instrument currency, and the danger is serious. I don't have much IMC experience with autopilots myself, but I do know the difficulty (as well as onset of fear and panic) in maintaining an instrument scan in zero visibility and raging turbulence cannot be underestimated.
Albany Tom
Final Approach
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I read the first part of "Fate is the Hunter" twice. Among other things he flew DC-3's in this area, NY's Hudson Valley. His account of flying in ice, in a plane that can carry some ice and that's built kinda like a tank, is one part of the reason that I'm not going to do it. As far as I remember, the last commercial crash before Potomac was Colgan, near Buffalo, and a combination of ice and pilot error in ice.
There's a lot made about the idea that commercial air travel is much safer than it used to be, better training, better procedures, etc. And that's all true. But I don't discount that a bunch of it is that they're not cruising across the country at 8,000 feet or whatever anymore.
This one is sad because it's one of those where 1 person knew the risks, and the other 4 probably didn't have any clue. I don't want to be angry about it, but I kinda am.
There's a lot made about the idea that commercial air travel is much safer than it used to be, better training, better procedures, etc. And that's all true. But I don't discount that a bunch of it is that they're not cruising across the country at 8,000 feet or whatever anymore.
This one is sad because it's one of those where 1 person knew the risks, and the other 4 probably didn't have any clue. I don't want to be angry about it, but I kinda am.
k9medic
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This just gets worse...
Looks like he bought the plane back in September and it flew about 10 flights. He also bought a second 421B model that was flying along with him that same night. One plane made it, the other did not.
Looks like he bought the plane back in September and it flew about 10 flights. He also bought a second 421B model that was flying along with him that same night. One plane made it, the other did not.
FlightmechH3
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Was this a flying business?!
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When you compare lower altitude airline travel back in the DC-3 days before the advent of pressurization and turbocharging (Constellations, Electras, etc.) it wasn't all due to cruising above some of the ice and weather. Flying in the teens has an abundant amount of weather related hazards, as shown by the amount of GA flying fatals like this one. I'm sure most turboprop pilots will agree that there's a lot of weather to deal with when cruising in the teens.
I'm sometimes amazed that the old days of airline travel weren't worse than the records may show. Some of the more memorable accidents in the earlier days were due to mid-air collisions, and others from impacts with terrain, particularly during instrument approaches.
Improvements in weather radar (ground and airborne), better communications, additional ground weather reporting stations, and improvements in navigational systems (ADF aural ranges over to VOR & ILS) also progressively improved the safety of air travel as the jet age developed.
Doc Holliday
En-Route
Your average private pilot stepping into a pressurized turbo'd twin doesn't have the knowledge to safely operate it in VFR conditions.
Does he really know the proper way to use the autopilot? How about knowing what conditions form ice and what needs to be operating when in those parameters? The big killer is how to use a radar if equipped. Inexperienced types think the radar is like an ipad or computer generated picture not know how gain and tilt affect what they are looking at. They see an image of a cell and think it's clear behind it not realizing the heavy precip is attenuating the image behind it. They go for the lighter area between two cells thinking it's better on the other side, not realizing that weaker area of precip is very turbulent due to wind shears between the two cells. All hell breaks loose in moderate or greater turbulence and now they are entering a massive thunderstorm.
A few years ago a gentleman in Central Florida bought a 100 series King Air to travel to his ranch in Texas. He was a low time private pilot that decided hiring a professional was just a waste of money so he headed off to Texas with his buddies to the ranch. On the return trip he and them ended up in a smoking hole. You can read about it at CEN10FA028 https://www.aopa.org/training-and-s...-weather-leads-to-king-air-in-flight-break-up
Does he really know the proper way to use the autopilot? How about knowing what conditions form ice and what needs to be operating when in those parameters? The big killer is how to use a radar if equipped. Inexperienced types think the radar is like an ipad or computer generated picture not know how gain and tilt affect what they are looking at. They see an image of a cell and think it's clear behind it not realizing the heavy precip is attenuating the image behind it. They go for the lighter area between two cells thinking it's better on the other side, not realizing that weaker area of precip is very turbulent due to wind shears between the two cells. All hell breaks loose in moderate or greater turbulence and now they are entering a massive thunderstorm.
A few years ago a gentleman in Central Florida bought a 100 series King Air to travel to his ranch in Texas. He was a low time private pilot that decided hiring a professional was just a waste of money so he headed off to Texas with his buddies to the ranch. On the return trip he and them ended up in a smoking hole. You can read about it at CEN10FA028 https://www.aopa.org/training-and-s...-weather-leads-to-king-air-in-flight-break-up
FlightmechH3
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That controller was cited?!?! Wow, that's messed up.
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Besides the tragic ending, another factor to consider was the pilot's obvious lack of concern towards his passenger's comfort. A lot of people are anxious about flying, even in airliners. For the average person, little planes are scary. Now add in darkness, clouds, and lightning.
Flying at night anywhere closer than 100 miles to storms producing lightning can be spooky as hell, especially when cloud buildups closer than the storms are being lit up by the flashes. Guarantee you that most passengers are not likely to enjoy this kind of trip one bit.
FlightmechH3
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Especially the last couple of minutes
k9medic
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I flew this pilot many times in helicopters. Really nice guy but got himself into something (with the help of ATC) that we was horribly unprepared for.
david.h
Pre-takeoff checklist
Link is to houston chronicle article.
My brother lives just a few miles from the crash, and has been around planes and pilots his whole life. He said he heard loud high speed engine noise and sounded like a plane was circling and/ or diving. He couldn't see it, cloudy and rainy. He was enjoying the rain and thought "who's fying in this, and they're in trouble".
Broke up in bad weather, possible pitot icing and a bad day....
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455 Bravo Uniform
Final Approach
LLC could be registered in any of the 50 states.