Cessna 414 down in Yorba Linda

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Rgbeard, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    That’s pretty much a worthless article I’d say. Reads more like some of the :crazy::dunno::idea::yikes::rollercoaster: conversations we have here on a regular basis after a crash; speculation, conspiracy, theoretical and “it was aliens” .....
     
  2. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route

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    So, there’s a comment in the article that “Initial reports suggest that this was a VFR flight..”

    Is that true? I hadn’t heard that.
     
  3. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yes -- the AOA gauges are pegged as far as they will go, well past the actual critical AOA.

    They are flying based on a combination of the Newtonian ram-air effect on the bottom of the wing and fuselage and the thrust of the burners.
     
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  4. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I didn't realize that physics checked the FAA type certificate to see how it should act toward a particular airplane.

    You made the generalization "swept wing jets", and I was narrowing down that the post-stall behavior has to do with factors other than the angle of wing sweep and the propulsion method.
     
  5. Warlock

    Warlock Line Up and Wait

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  6. FlySince9

    FlySince9 En-Route

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    Crashed your plane? I must have missed that thread...
     
  7. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I wasn't trying to come off argumentative. Sorry if it sounded that way. Just that in practice, we don't routinely practice stalls in airline or corporate aircraft in the real world. You don't usually get to explore the extremes of their flight envelopes outside of the sim, because some have peculiar responses such as the 717 video posted earlier.

    Your fighter aircraft, which I am jealous of BTW, you train for and are able to push the boundaries with them. That is what they were designed to do for combat, and that is what you are trained to do. Helps that if SHTF, you always have a way out of the aircraft as well.
     
  8. Gerhardt

    Gerhardt En-Route

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    I know, right? You log off to get lunch and so much happens around here.

    btw, the youtube video a few posts above...that's one of the coolest things I've seen.
     
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  9. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    It's reported he departed KFUL at 2139Z. Ceilings were around 4000 broken, 5000 overcast, so he had to go through stuff to get to the 7800' where the plunge reportedly began. But for some reason I've yet to hear about an IFR flight plan, destination, or anything about ATC communications leading up to the anomaly.
     
  10. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Fair enough -- I wasn't trying to be combative either, but just provide a different angle of input to the discussion.

    Although stalls aren't practiced in transport category aircraft by 121 crews, that's not necessarily the same as not knowing how the aircraft will react in various stall environments. It is also a bit misleading to point to the occurrences in 717 video as reasoning as to why this is. I could counter with the MD-11 stall test (it is about the 3:10 mark in this vid) where the airplane has a nice, straight break to the stall, and even the video of the turning stall that follows it shows a very controllable recovery.



    The root issue isn't that there isn't data on how transport category aircraft perform out near the edges of the flight envelope (or that such behavior is so wild and dangerous) -- it is that the sims do not have flight models that incorporate all that flight test data (since what most users of the sims need out of the flight model doesn't require it, and it costs more to program it). My airline recently went through having our sims reprogrammed to incorporate a certain amount of that flight test data to support an unusual attitude and stall recovery program.
     
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  11. arkvet

    arkvet Line Up and Wait

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    I agree. If you were flying the AI (by hand or attitude based AP) and had vacuum pump failure... Do you suppose this might be the flight track if you were flying to the leaning AI? What about the AP? My Century 41 AP is attitude based and would probably do something similar if I didn't notice other instruments in disagreement.

    This might also explain why there were zero coms (that we know of). He may have been flying that wide circle for quite a while before realizing he wasn't straight and level. As the AI continued to spin down the bank angle would gradually increase until not enough lift to keep the altitude.

    Otherwise why would he go so badly off course (in circles) without coms unless this was deliberate or he was incapacitated (other possible scenarios)
     
  12. dtuuri

    dtuuri En-Route

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    Incapacitation, maybe the deliberate kind, is my guess, but that doesn't explain the inflight breakup. I can't wait to read the accident report and autopsy on this one.
     
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  13. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The elevator flutter looked a little disconcerting to me, but I suppose it's not a thing to worry about?
     
  14. 1RTK1

    1RTK1 Cleared for Takeoff

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    After reading the guys facebook posts it does make you wonder...............
     
  15. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    eh, I've seen several cases of "I'm quitting facebook forever", "facebook friends aren't real friends" type of posts, none of which led to an intentional plane crash. Sky King excluded. but yeah, this guy did seem a lil odd.
     
  16. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Yea, I haven't seen any of those kinds of posts since I quit facebook 2-3 years ago.
     
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  17. Warlock

    Warlock Line Up and Wait

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    N7430J the airplane you can google that...the FAA employee who had kidnapped his kid 6 weeks earlier had a bunch of fake ID’s...no thread because I don’t need to comment on the actual event...an insurance thing...
     
  18. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Pattern Altitude

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    I never started. The few, the proud... :)
     
  19. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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    ABC News is saying Antonio Pastini had changed his name from Jordan Isaacson, and never served in the Marine Corps as he claimed.

    I just don't get why people lie about having served in the military. Weird.
     
  20. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You have them on this forum.
     
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  21. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

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    There’s one in particular that I think at minimum is exaggerating his service if not outright lying about it.
     
  22. Challenged

    Challenged Pattern Altitude

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    I flew bird-dogs over in Nam myself, spent most of my time in Poontang, outside of Young Chang.
     
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  23. nauga

    nauga Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    I quoted your post not as a criticism but as a convenient entry. PLEASE don't take that 717 video as representative of the 717 fleet or any heritage twinjet.

    Nauga,
    and one goat, just one goat
     
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  24. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    I spent countless days in a bunker smack dab in the middle of Dam Li.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
     
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  25. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    Verify range to target... one goat only.
     
  26. Red Air Rambo

    Red Air Rambo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You should call them out on it...relatively easy to prove most all are presented with a shadow box at their retirement.
    shadowbox.JPG
     
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  27. Red Air Rambo

    Red Air Rambo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    there is also the separation of service record
     

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  28. Red Air Rambo

    Red Air Rambo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    One of my Commanders actually did fly the 0-1 in Vietnam...He hated it, he said they gave him the choice between that and the backseat of an F-4...He wanted to fly and not ride....I don't know if I would have made the same...lol


    Now I can go back to lurking, I've posted more in two days than the last 7 years.
     
  29. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Not everyone rides the pine for a full 20. Others find real jobs after an enlistment or two...
     
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  30. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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    Even those that didn't retire get a DD214 as proof of service, and can request their complete military personnel file through VA eBenefits.
     
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  31. Rein Hart

    Rein Hart Filing Flight Plan

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    Victims in the home were identified. Tragedy.
     
  32. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    We used to stall the KC-135 in the actual airplane during instructor training. There were a lot of restrictions on weights, fuel distribution across all the tanks, etc. There isn't a stick-shaker, so you would go to the buffet, but prior to the actual stall. They stopped doing it years ago. Not because of any danger, but they felt the stress on the airframe wasn't worth it, and they could replicate it in the simulator.

    We did the same thing. I think it's a mandated thing that all 121 pilots do upset recovery training now.
     
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  33. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    Was it the buffet that caused the stress, or the recovery?
     
  34. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    A shadowbox isn’t always proof of retirement. I didn’t have a retirement ceremony or get a shadowbox, but I certainly have the retirement certificates and the DD214.
     
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  35. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 Pattern Altitude

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    IMMIC:
    On my Mooney, if it’s AOA was 90° and traveling at 200 mph, the force would be equivalent to 13Gs, if 300 mph...29Gs.



    Tom
     
  36. Piperonca

    Piperonca Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Don't keep us in suspense...
     
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  37. CC268

    CC268 Final Approach

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    Tell us! Tell us!
     
  38. Trobaugh

    Trobaugh Filing Flight Plan

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    And in the great state of Texas, we can get "Veteran" put on our DLs and/or LTCs (with proof of service).
     
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  39. TipTanks

    TipTanks Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thanks for your service everyone. Lying about military service is ridiculous and dis respectful to those who have and are serving. Call them out!
     
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  40. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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    Same in California. Also, the VA started issuing a Veteran Identification Card last year.