Cessna 210 Crash - Payson, AZ - 4 Dead

Any idea what the weather was? I'm getting real tired of this mess and want to know WTF is going on with all these GA planes augering recently.
 
Unit74 said:
Any idea what the weather was? I'm getting real tired of this mess and want to know WTF is going on with all these GA planes augering recently.
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Article says they took off Monday night. It was rainy all weekend. Monday (yesterday) it was a bit gloomy but not rainy and no low cloud layers it would have been VFR...at least in the Phoenix area

I've been sick all weekend though so I may not be 100% correct

News said he has had his PPL for 3 years. I definitely wouldn't have made that flight at night that's for sure. Pretty sure it was a moonless night or close to it with the high cloud layer.
 
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Unit74 said:
Any idea what the weather was? I'm getting real tired of this mess and want to know WTF is going on with all these GA planes augering recently.
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I haven't verified the accuracy, but a poster over at BeechTalk listed the weather at Payson that evening as IFR. Supposedly pilot was not IR.

:mad2:
 
Fearless Tower said:
I haven't verified the accuracy, but a poster over at BeechTalk listed the weather at Payson that evening as IFR. Supposedly pilot was not IR.

:mad2:
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That wouldn't surprise me if it was IFR...it was IFR all weekend but I thought yesterday was fairly cleared out. But Payson is an hour from the Valley so it's possible the conditions were very different. Your right the pilot wasn't IR. He was a relatively new PPL (3 years - don't know how much time he had)
 
This seems to happen every year around the end of the year, my unscientific analysis is that a bunch of pretty good local pilots decide to take their big trip and show their family why GA is worthwhile so they all pile in the plane and off they go for that 1-2 big trips of the year.

The result, more miles flown, more hours flown, all under pressure. **** happens, and its depressing. If its in proportion that's actually a good thing and we need to remember that
 
Man there has been what, 6-7 crashes in the last 7-10 days? Wonder if the holidays were responsible for people rushing and/or making unsafe decisions?
 
So did he fly straight into the Mogollon Rim? I haven't seen the exact crash point yet.

WTF?

Edit: just re-read the article, and yup, he apparently flew right into the face. At least it was quick for the wife/kids.
 
This says crash site was 14 miles east of Strawberry, AZ, which seems to put them just about there.
 
CC268 said:
Article says they took off Monday night. It was rainy all weekend. Monday (yesterday) it was a bit gloomy but not rainy and no low cloud layers it would have been VFR...at least in the Phoenix area

I've been sick all weekend though so I may not be 100% correct

News said he has had his PPL for 3 years. I definitely wouldn't have made that flight at night that's for sure. Pretty sure it was a moonless night or close to it with the high cloud layer.
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It was solid IFR from Payson and north of the rim Monday.
 
simtech said:
This seems to be increasing...I just don't understand it.
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Holidays that some folks think are important, bad weather, too little time off from work combined with get-there-itis. Basically it comes down to poor judgment.
 
simtech said:
This seems to be increasing...I just don't understand it.
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People are NOT getting any smarter, quite the opposite from my observations.

Which, by no means, is supposed to be a comment about this specific flight. Merely a general statement.
R.I.P., for whatever reason they are not alive anymore. :(
 
14 miles east of Pine lies 56 nm along a direct route from KSDL to KTEX and at 6500' intersects with terrain on the rim. May they RIP.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
14 miles east of Pine lies on a direct route from KSDL to KTEX and at 6500' intersects with terrain on the rim. May they RIP.
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From the original FlightAware track they had been as high as 7800' and then were descending. I suspect he might have been between layers and was trying to stay VMC.
 
Fearless Tower said:
From the original FlightAware track they had been as high as 7800' and then were descending. I suspect he might have been between layers and was trying to stay VMC.
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I know at noon, Payson was reporting 600ft floors
 
Do I have the timing wrong - or do these METARs for KPAN show clear skies at that time?

METAR KPAN 030455Z AUTO 08003KT 10SM CLR 01/M00 A3017 RMK
AO2=
SA 03/01/2017 04:35->
METAR KPAN 030435Z AUTO 09004KT 10SM CLR 01/M00 A3017 RMK
AO2=
SA 03/01/2017 04:15->
METAR KPAN 030415Z AUTO 06004KT 10SM CLR 01/M00 A3016 RMK
AO2=

Automated observations I realize.
 
Fearless Tower said:
From the original FlightAware track they had been as high as 7800' and then were descending. I suspect he might have been between layers and was trying to stay VMC.
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Or maybe trying to scoot over a low point on the edge of the rim? Terrain then descends again to the northeast.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Or maybe trying to scoot over a low point on the edge of the rim? Terrain then descends again to the northeast.
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Yeah, the rim comes up pretty fast from Payson. You can go east around the worst before you get back northeast.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Do I have the timing wrong - or do these METARs for KPAN show clear skies at that time?

METAR KPAN 030455Z AUTO 08003KT 10SM CLR 01/M00 A3017 RMK
AO2=
SA 03/01/2017 04:35->
METAR KPAN 030435Z AUTO 09004KT 10SM CLR 01/M00 A3017 RMK
AO2=
SA 03/01/2017 04:15->
METAR KPAN 030415Z AUTO 06004KT 10SM CLR 01/M00 A3016 RMK
AO2=

Automated observations I realize.
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We were going to launch towards Payson then Sedona for food, we scrubbed as weather was showing solid IFR, that was 11:30 to noon time frame. Went to IHOP nearby.
 
For it to show up on flight aware I thought you had to file IFR? I used to see my tracks on FA if I was on vfr flight following but haven't even seen that in the last year or so.
 
airheadpenguin said:
This seems to happen every year around the end of the year, my unscientific analysis is that a bunch of pretty good local pilots decide to take their big trip and show their family why GA is worthwhile so they all pile in the plane and off they go for that 1-2 big trips of the year.

The result, more miles flown, more hours flown, all under pressure. **** happens, and its depressing. If its in proportion that's actually a good thing and we need to remember that
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I think you are exactly right.
They were heading for Telluride. You can teach, you can add the greatest tech ever devised, but you cannot account for the Human Factor.

But you really cannot blame GA or flying for it. Chances are this could have happened to the same family on icy mountain highways, when the get-there-it is takes over.
 
arkvet said:
For it to show up on flight aware I thought you had to file IFR? I used to see my tracks on FA if I was on vfr flight following but haven't even seen that in the last year or so.
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FlightAware will show sometimes if you are on Flight Following.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Do I have the timing wrong - or do these METARs for KPAN show clear skies at that time?

METAR KPAN 030455Z AUTO 08003KT 10SM CLR 01/M00 A3017 RMK
AO2=
SA 03/01/2017 04:35->
METAR KPAN 030435Z AUTO 09004KT 10SM CLR 01/M00 A3017 RMK
AO2=
SA 03/01/2017 04:15->
METAR KPAN 030415Z AUTO 06004KT 10SM CLR 01/M00 A3016 RMK
AO2=

Automated observations I realize.
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Yes, the times are apparently wrong.

They departed SDL around 9am. Thus apparently happened in the morning not evening.
 
Database shows Eric as a non instrument PPL issued in 2010.



As far as the dangers of flying, if you're overweight, or smoke cigarettes, just slap yourself now ;)
 
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Fearless Tower said:
Yes, the times are apparently wrong.

They departed SDL around 9am. Thus apparently happened in the morning not evening.
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Thanks, I stand corrected. So 3000' overcast reported or about 8100' MSL. Barely above the top of the rim near there.
 
Pilawt said:
Just checked my tail number on Flightaware. My two local flights from last week show up -- VFR, no flight following, just stooging around at low altitude south and west of GYR. Maybe having ADS-B out makes a difference?
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Maybe that is it. I noticed before the accident track was removed from FlightAware that the position updates on the track all said ADS-B

So it would seem that if you are ADS-B Out equipped, then Big Brother is indeed watching.
 
Here ya go

image.jpg



image.jpg




Weather +1 / -1 hr from crash

METAR/SPECI from KPAN,

SA 02/01/2017 19:55->
METAR KPAN 021955Z AUTO VRB04KT 10SM OVC006 03/02 A3010 RMK AO2=

SA 02/01/2017 19:35->
METAR KPAN 021935Z AUTO VRB04KT 10SM BKN007 OVC020 02/01 A3011 RMK AO2=

SA 02/01/2017 19:15->
METAR KPAN 021915Z AUTO VRB05G11KT 10SM OVC006 02/01 A3011 RMK AO2=

SA 02/01/2017 18:55->
METAR KPAN 021855Z AUTO VRB04G10KT 10SM OVC006 02/02 A3012 RMK AO2=

SA 02/01/2017 18:35->
METAR KPAN 021835Z AUTO VRB05KT 10SM OVC005 02/02 A3012 RMK AO2=

SA 02/01/2017 18:15->
METAR KPAN 021815Z AUTO VRB05KT 10SM OVC004 02/02 A3013 RMK AO2=

SA 02/01/2017 17:55->
METAR KPAN 021755Z AUTO VRB05KT 10SM OVC005 02/02 A3012 RMKAO2=

SA 02/01/2017 17:35->
METAR KPAN 021735Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM OVC004 02/02 A3012 RMKAO2=

SA 02/01/2017 17:15->
METAR KPAN 021715Z AUTO VRB04KT 10SM OVC004 02/01 A3012 RMK AO2=



METAR/SPECI from KSDL

SA 02/01/2017 19:53->
METAR KSDL 021953Z 13003KT 10SM CLR 13/03 A3007 RMK AO2 SLP175 T01280028=

SA 02/01/2017 18:53->
METAR KSDL 021853Z 14004KT 10SM CLR 12/03 A3010 RMK AO2 SLP184 T01220028=

SA 02/01/2017 17:53->
METAR KSDL 021753Z 15004KT 10SM CLR 12/04 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP189 T01170039 10117 20089 53019=



Looks like he took off in good weather and flew from VMC into IMC conditions, according the the FAA website Eric did not hold a instrument ticket.
 
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arkvet said:
For it to show up on flight aware I thought you had to file IFR? I used to see my tracks on FA if I was on vfr flight following but haven't even seen that in the last year or so.
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Go into your account on FA, scroll down to section 6, select show "position only flights". Now you will be able to see any flight where you have a squawk.
 
simtech said:
Go into your account on FA, scroll down to section 6, select show "position only flights". Now you will be able to see any flight where you have a squawk.
Click to expand...

This is amazing, never knew about it. Know all of our flight show up. Thank you.
Without this setting, I would only see our IFR flights an only very sporadically some VFR flights, even though we are always flight following.
 
Is anyone else bothered by the idea that you can be openly tracked on FlightAware by your ADS-B signal alone?
 
Wow...so this guy took off at NIGHT on pretty much a moonless night...let alone to Telluride Colorado which is swamped with mountains...and it was pretty hard IFR in Payson...with his family...WOW.
 
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