Cessna 182RG, goods bads, what is the average annual cost.

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by Jonathan Gurley, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Jonathan Gurley

    Jonathan Gurley Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    jongurley
    Me and my partner are interested in possibly purchasing a 182 or 182 rg, we will be on a 3000ft smooth grass strip. I was curious to how expensive the retracts would be on average. I realize that the maintenance on them is imperative to keeping them functional and nice. I have heard a lot of horror stories about the 182rg retracts. thanks for any info or comments from experience.
     
  2. Geosync

    Geosync Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2016
    Messages:
    350
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Geosync
    RGs are nice, and seem to be undervalued now. However I rather stick with a fixed gear for off-pavement. Plus I've seen many, many more gear up landings than gear failures(yes, they happen too) on 182RG/210s. There is saying about retractable gear...those who have, and those who will. So if you don't need the extra speed then stick with a tried and true 182.
     
  3. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,644
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    FTFY.

    Cessna’s gear design on their single engine airplanes was NOT their strong point.
     
  4. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    2,388
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Juliet Hotel
    This statement seems to find its way into every conversation involving the purchase of a retractable gear airplane but I don't think its even close to being true. If you want to make that kind of broad sweeping statement about death (there are those that have, and those who will) you would be absolutely correct. If you want to make it about anything else, including gear up landings, the actual numbers just aren't going to back up the claim. There are tons of pilots who have gone their entire lives with lots of retract hours in their logbooks and never once landed without the wheels down unless it was done purposely (water landing etc).
     
  5. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,120
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Don
    Former 182RG owner with 1,500 hours over 15 years.

    MX wasn't bad. 2 brake swivel fittings was about it. But if your field isn't like a golf fairway, you're probably better off with a fixed gear. The small RG tires aren't the best for off pavement operations.

    But 155kts at 12GPH is hard to beat.
     
  6. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    8,654
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    Cessna owners maintaining and keeping the gear rigged is not their strong point. :rolleyes:

    There's nothing that seriously wrong with the Cessna retract gear on either the singles or many of their piston twins if it is maintained properly. On a number of the Cessna piston models the gear may not be as absolutely robust as some of the Pipers or Beechcraft (the Crusader being one of the notable exceptions).

    But it is expected owners will maintain it and check the rigging every annual. That is a known requirement. And most of the "horror stories" are probably a result of owner neglect in this regard. Also, for some of the Cessna retract airplanes its a no-no to brake and turn at the same time while taxiing.
     
  7. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    2,388
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Juliet Hotel
    What's the reason for that?
     
  8. kep5niner

    kep5niner Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    169
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pete
    Side load on the landing gear causing structural cracks. Thus the necessity for a side-brace kit, to the tune of about $10k per side.
     
    GRG55 likes this.
  9. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    9,362
    Location:
    Lincoln NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian
    As an A&P none of the Cessna single engine retracts would bother me. I've never hear of a "no brake turns" on any cessnas before but IDK the twins very well.

    Cracks? They all crack, beech, piper, and Cessna. Corrosion? They all corrode, beech piper and Cessna.

    Comanches have well documented trunnion cracking issues.

    Beech Strut tubes and wheels have well document corrosion issues.

    Cessna SEP, pivot cracking is well know but certain models and serial seem immune for the most part. Some SEP Cessna retracts are a lot more complex than others.
     
    Mtns2Skies likes this.
  10. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    8,654
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    ^^^This.


    Agree. All these airplanes are getting old and the gear is exposed to lots of wear and tear, water, dirt, ice and such, so corrosion, cracking and parts worn beyond limits are an issue across the fleet. Some are less tolerant and some are more tolerant of neglect, no retractable gear system is immune.

    Perhaps @Ted DuPuis will chime in, but some of the Cessna piston twins are recommended not to brake and turn at the same time iirc. Not certain about any of the single piston Cessnas (they all have their wing bolted up in the wrong location so hopefully I can be forgiven for ignoring them :D )
     
  11. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    5,813
    Location:
    A Rubber Room
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cli4ord
    The Bendix dual mag / single drive with an AD of 500 hour inspection is the biggest negative because shops that will work on these are limited and parts may be difficult to obtain.
     
  12. SoCalPilot88

    SoCalPilot88 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    117
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoCalPilot88
    In the few years I've owned my R182 "RG", the annual bills haven't been much more than the fixed gear 182. The last annual I did have a leaking brake line swivel. Squat switch needed adjustment on the prior annual. I have the older model R182 which has steel landing gear pivots which are not as prone to cracking as the aluminum pivots. I have no idea why Cessna switched from steel to aluminum on those pivots. I've reserved a budget for anticipated costs in the future such as resealing actuators and power pack overhaul. I guess the retract gear has been slightly more expensive but I really love the 156 KTAS cruise speed. I never worried much about forgetting to put the gear down. I've spent many years flying retracts and I've never had any close calls. The tires are smaller than the fixed gear and I hear they are prone to flat-spotting. However, I have yet to have it happen to me. I thought I may have flat-spotted when I landed at Sedona (downhill runway, and I needed to make a braking turn to exit to a taxiway) but tires were fine.

    All other annual costs are the same as the fixed gear (had to replace a fuel bladder last year). I am glad I got the older model with the bladders. I'd rather deal with new bladders every 15 or 20 years than try to reseal an integral fuel tank found on the newer 182s. The integral tanks may be trouble-free for decades, then when they leak it can be maintenance intensive.
     
  13. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    3,948
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    Yeah, I actually don't personally know a pilot who has landed with the gear up due to pilot malfeasance (though one time there was a physical issue with the gear, so he gets a free pass.)
     
  14. Jim Rosenow

    Jim Rosenow Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    805
    Location:
    Smithville, Ohio
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim Rosenow
    We've had good luck with our R182. Additional gear costs have been limited to the extral time for inspecting and the gear swing each year. Similar experience for those in our area (3 on just our airport), including one that's been on a grass strip since new...probably 4K hours now on it.

    Ours is an '86 with over 7K hours on it (ex-FBI airplane), and we've had it to LA, and the East coast several time....which brings up the following. IMHO, if you're buying to go places, go RG. Next door hangar neighbor had a beautiful 182...PPONK. Even with his 270 PPONK ponies, we'd walk away from him going places, on less fuel.....before he bought into an RG :)

    Just starting to research on the repetitive mag AD....wondering about electronic igntion.

    To specific costs, I can't comment, as each year we do an upgrade at annual time (ADS-B, GTN650, 3-bladed prop, upgraded engine monitoring, etc.), plus, I don't really want to know what it costs :)

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
    oppscheckgood6 likes this.
  15. JohnAJohnson

    JohnAJohnson Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,284
    Location:
    Gulf Shores, AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JohnAJohnson
    I think the Lycoming engine is a big plus on the R182, and statistics show the D3000 isn't any more or less reliable than single mags, if maintained properly. And there is no problem finding parts, or shops that know how to service them.

     
  16. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,985
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    hindsight2020
    OP, PM me if you're interested in the contrarian view on the gear and mag. I have some data points and research I did on the subject back when I was looking for an upgrade to my arrow, that I could share with ya if interested. I'm just not invested enough anymore to draw fire over it on the public forum. Cheers.
     
  17. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,749
    Location:
    Tupelo, MS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ktup-flyer
    +1. The only "bad" gear system out of the Cessna retracts is the old 210's. The R182/TR182 could be my next bird, if I stay certified.
     
    Mtns2Skies likes this.
  18. Z06_Mir

    Z06_Mir Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,670
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Radna
    The 182RG is the best. It sips gas, goes reasonably fast and is overall reliable. Out of our six airplanes the 182 is the only one that isn't "for sale". Gear specific maintenance is pretty little, but we had some leaky o-rings last winter so we went ahead and rebuilt the entire system since it was a part anyway. $3,500 well spent IMO.

    The biggest maintenance issue we've had in years was a brake line. Why? Because the gear leg had to come off to replace it. No big deal, it's a pin... yeah it was a pin in 1981 when it was first built and now it's become one with the airplane. But with that battle behind us now we can get back to loving it rather than just staring at it in the hangar.

    We've had it since 2012 and have put probably 800 hours on it crossing the Rockies, the Great Lakes, the Plains... pretty much everywhere. And I would sell the 310 in a second if I could only have one airplane that's how much I like the airplane and the capability of it.
     
    oppscheckgood6 and GRG55 like this.
  19. weirdjim

    weirdjim Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,171
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA (KGOO)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weirdjim
    i do almost any 182 straight leg for $200 if the owner does all the greasy work. I will not even consider doing a bent leg 182. I value my ticket.

    Jim
     
  20. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,120
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Don
    What harm can come to your IA ticket by performing an annual inspection on a 182RG?

    Does this also apply to a 210, 177 or 172RG? If not, what is different between the four?
     
  21. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    23,813
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    Cost per hour on the retract will be higher, cost per mile will be roughly the same, possibly even less.

    The weak point in the gear system is the pivots. If you can, get one of the early birds that had steel pivots. Anything 79 or later, and even some of the 78s, have the aluminum pivots which are more prone to cracking. If you find an otherwise nice bird with aluminum pivots, just be sure to get a prebuy AND a good gear rigging from someone experienced in the type.

    If you still end up with a cracked pivot, don't bother trying to buy a new one from Cessna. There's a company in Hillsboro, OR that has a certified repair process for the existing ones that costs a fraction of what a new pivot goes for (~$4K vs. $19K about 6-7 years ago).

    Other than that, power pack overhauls every decade or so, a gear swing at annual, and you'll be going 10-20 knots faster on the same fuel burn compared to the regular 182. The C182 is an amazingly good all-around airplane, with its major weakness being sluggish speed for fuel burned, and the R182 takes care of that and gets you places faster. It's a wonderful type.
     
    oppscheckgood6 and tdturbo like this.
  22. tdturbo

    tdturbo Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Lansing, IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim
    Best plane I ever owned, on my second engine. Bought the first one with 1000 hrs to go B4 overhaul. Got a Firewall forward @ G&N and have 2K hrs on that. 3K hrs in it total for me with all long X-country and zero problems. I love it and will never sell it, does everything I need it to do.
     
  23. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    220
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OneCharlieTango
    Stronger than a 210. Faster than a 182. Cheaper than a Bonanza.
     
    donjohnston, Pugs and Jim Rosenow like this.
  24. JEB

    JEB Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2019
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Sunny SoCal
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JEB
    Fantastic airplanes. As others have said - thoroughly inspect the gear and take proper care of it - if you do, then the annuals will be very predictable I think (unless you purchase a project of course).

    When I was shopping, I'd have been very happy with a nice maintained R182. I ended up with a Bonanza, but I still think these are great planes.
     
  25. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,617
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Few pilots here can separate the annual from the yearly cost of ownership.
     
  26. JEB

    JEB Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2019
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Sunny SoCal
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JEB
    I've never paid for an annual on a Cessna, so this is just a data point. My Annual inspections cost 2K. I typically spend about another thousand dollars doing miscellaneous stiff while the plane is down for Annual. This is on a Beech A36. My understanding is that Cessna's tend to cost a little bit less.
     
  27. jonvcaples

    jonvcaples Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2019
    Messages:
    395
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Sasquatch
    Chuckle, as a lawyer back home proved there are three types of pilots flying retracts. Those who have landed gear up. Those who are going to. And those who are going to again. The person I am remembering destroyed a beautiful Piper Dakota (almost cleared the tree trying to take off in bad weather from a runway that was too short) then spent a lot of money repairing his beautiful Bonanza after two gear up landings. Somehow no one was injured and the local A&P smiled every time this pilot took off.

    Hope everyone is weathering the current crisis!
     
  28. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,936
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Heywood Jablowme
    Funny, I was looking at R182's for a while as well, and ended up with a F33A Bonanza. I love the airplane, but I am sometimes a little jealous of the cabin width, UL and CG of the R182.
     
  29. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    220
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OneCharlieTango
    It's a cute thing to say, but it's just not true. I went from a never-gear-upped Bonanza, to a Skywagon. Now I hear the same talk about ground loops, where it's probably closer to true.

    ABS has a very good video about gear-up mishaps called "Those Who Won't." Worth watching for anyone considering a retract.