Cessna 172: open pilot warranty question … “make and model”?

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alanbreck

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Anyone know how insurance underwriters view “make and model” when it comes to Cessna 172s?

For example, if I have a 172N, and the open pilot clause in my insurance policy provides coverage for pilots who meet this stipulation:
- “25 hours shall have been in this make and model aircraft”

… Does “any” C172 time count as make/model? Or does only C172N time count as make and model.

I tend to think any C172 time would count. But I have a slightly different experience which went the other way …

… I was being added as a named insured to a buddy’s PA-32-260. I didn’t have any hours in that particular variant, but had ~25 hrs in a PA-32-300R. But the insurance underwriter stipulated that none of those hours counted as make/model towards the PA-32-260.
 
It’s make AND model, the model being “N”. They will want N time. It’s dumb, but that’s the way they do it.
 
alanbreck said:
Anyone know how insurance underwriters view “make and model” when it comes to Cessna 172s?

For example, if I have a 172N, and the open pilot clause in my insurance policy provides coverage for pilots who meet this stipulation:
- “25 hours shall have been in this make and model aircraft”

… Does “any” C172 time count as make/model? Or does only C172N time count as make and model.

I tend to think any C172 time would count. But I have a slightly different experience which went the other way …

… I was being added as a named insured to a buddy’s PA-32-260. I didn’t have any hours in that particular variant, but had ~25 hrs in a PA-32-300R. But the insurance underwriter stipulated that none of those hours counted as make/model towards the PA-32-260.
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I don't have a Cessna but my insurance wanted the exact make/model, much to my annoyance.
My experience in nearly identical models didn't count for anything. I tried to get them to bend but they wouldn't.

My insurance company:
DkQbMuaUYAAL6qH.jpg
 
You have to ask your broker or insurance company.

Different insurance companies have different definitions of Make and Model.

Several discussions on BT, that have a wide range of answers from various insurance companies.
 
texasclouds said:
They all one seventy twos, brotaterchips.
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It would be interesting to see someone who has only flown C172A's try to fly a R172K. Bonus if the latter has the 210hp STC.
 
I have 224 hrs and 422 landings in C172 type across L, M, N, R, and SP models and I have yet to discover any real meaningful difference. Also to my amusement, my club is interested in me delivering their M model back from paint and it's a big discussion if I'm able because I have 0 time on THEIR planes :rolleyes:
 
@kaiser The M model is one of the best. The yoke control is light and balanced. Engine has plenty if power.

I see a windshield, two yokes, four pedals, a flap mechanism, trim wheel, throttle, and mixture control. This ain’t rocket surgery. A quick checkout flight for the nuances, then Bob’s your uncle.
 
texasclouds said:
@kaiser The M model is one of the best. The yoke control is light and balanced. Engine has plenty if power.
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I agree - although the L model I flew was nearly flawlessly maintained so it has a special place in my heart.

texasclouds said:
@kaiserI see a windshield, two yokes, four pedals, a flap mechanism, trim wheel, throttle, and mixture control. This ain’t rocket surgery. A quick checkout flight for the nuances, then Bob’s your uncle.
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This
 
But by all means, if you feel led to list out individual hours for each 172 variant on your Envoy application…full send it brocephus!
 
Jeff Oslick said:
But you could also have two 172N's, one bone-stock, the other STC'd to a full glass panel, no vacuum system, 180hp STC, Sportman STOL kit...
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From 160hp to 180hp is a much smaller jump than carbureted 145hp fixed pitch prop to 210hp fuel injected constant speed prop.
 
Side-stepping the which-skyhawk-is-best :D, I have always interpreted make to be "Cessna" and model to be "172"; But as mentioned, not all underwriters see it this way. It gets worse as you get up into high-performance singles and twins.

It's getting ridiculous to the point where I'll just help my broker out by grouping my times like:

"All Bonanza" (33, 35, 36)
"Specific Bonanza" with 33, 35, and 36 teased out separately
"Specific Bonanza Subtype" where I tediously list out 33, A33, B33, C33, C33A, E33, E33A, E33C... sigh... etc. There are dozens of these just within the Bonanza/Baron family line.

Then it gets insane because now some insurers want time in last 90 days, last 12 months, night, IMC... which I need to bucket by the above. It's to the point where I need to present an underwriting matrix to give dual anymore.

I think paper logbooks are going to die quickly because of this absurdity.
 
Curious that ICAO/FAA included the R172 series in the "C172" type designator. The R172 is different enough in systems and performance to warrant a separate designator, as they do with the various versions of the M20, PA-28 and PA-32 families. Plus, the R172 is built under the Cessna 175's type certificate. So why not just call it a "C175"?
 
alanbreck said:
Anyone know how insurance underwriters view “make and model” when it comes to Cessna 172s?

For example, if I have a 172N, and the open pilot clause in my insurance policy provides coverage for pilots who meet this stipulation:
- “25 hours shall have been in this make and model aircraft”

… Does “any” C172 time count as make/model? Or does only C172N time count as make and model.

I tend to think any C172 time would count. But I have a slightly different experience which went the other way …

… I was being added as a named insured to a buddy’s PA-32-260. I didn’t have any hours in that particular variant, but had ~25 hrs in a PA-32-300R. But the insurance underwriter stipulated that none of those hours counted as make/model towards the PA-32-260.
Click to expand...

25 hours in any 172 to meet insurance is nuts.
 
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