Carrying your medical
- Thread starter Frogs97
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midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
It's funny. Someone earlier described (recommended?) a "gee I don't recall if I have my logbook and I won't look for it for you" dance when they actually do have it. I guess I can imagine an inspector doing something with the lack of the medical on the pilots person in that type of scenario. But that's the old, "act like a jerk and expect to be treated like one."
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, it's a decision by the Inspector on the scene to exercise his discretion in a practical way and not worry about trifles based on the overall situation.
More like state highway patrol officers not stopping drivers going 70 in a 65 MPH zone. Doesn't change the speed limit rules and doesn't prevent enforcement of them.
unsafervguy
En-Route
8900.1 v5 states:
5-153 REPLACEMENT OF CERTIFICATES AND RECORDS.
A. Replacement of Certificates. A certificate that has been lost, stolen, or destroyed must be replaced as soon as possible, since §§ 61.3, 63.3, 65.51(a), 65.89, 65.105, and 65.111; part 121, § 121.383(a); and part 125, § 125.261 require that these persons possess their airman and medical certificates when exercising certificate privileges. If a certificate is lost, stolen, or destroyed, the airman must obtain a replacement certificate directly from AFS-760 (refer to §§ 61.29, 63.16, and 65.16(b)). A $2 replacement fee is required for each certificate to be replaced. The Web site is equipped to accept credit card payment. An airman may request a replacement certificate by an online request or may use the form found at the FAA Web site: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/certificate_replacement/. The airman may mail the completed FAA Form 8060-56 to AFS-760 at the address provided in subparagraph 5-152C.
also:
B. Obtaining a Temporary Certificate by Email or Fax for Immediate Use. An airman may request temporary authorization to exercise the privileges of their airman certificate through the FAA Web site at: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/airmen_services/. Within a few minutes, the airman will receive the authorization through either email or fax. The authorization will be valid for 60 days. Under certain extraordinary circumstances, an inspector may issue a Temporary Airman Certificate. Such a circumstance might be when no Internet or fax capability is available and the airman must make a return flight to domicile, continue an extended flight schedule, or continue with any near-term aviation employment. However, the inspector must be able to verify the airman’s certificate and ratings and their validity before issuing a Temporary Airman Certificate (see subparagraph 5-153D).
1) An airman may only receive a temporary medical certificate by calling the Aerospace Medical Certification Division, Medical Certification Branch (AAM-331), at (405) 954-4821. The airman will provide the Office of Aerospace Medicine (AAM) specialist personal information to validate their identity.
2) The specialist will, on verification of the airman’s information and within 30 minutes, fax a copy of a temporary medical certificate that will be valid for 60 days. A fax machine must be available to the airman to receive the certificate. There is no email option. A temporary medical certificate acquired in this manner will not result in the issuance of a permanent certificate. The airman must still submit a request for permanent replacement by the method identified in subparagraph 5-153A.
seems clear to me that only documents from the FAA are legal, not copies form kinko's
5-153 REPLACEMENT OF CERTIFICATES AND RECORDS.
A. Replacement of Certificates. A certificate that has been lost, stolen, or destroyed must be replaced as soon as possible, since §§ 61.3, 63.3, 65.51(a), 65.89, 65.105, and 65.111; part 121, § 121.383(a); and part 125, § 125.261 require that these persons possess their airman and medical certificates when exercising certificate privileges. If a certificate is lost, stolen, or destroyed, the airman must obtain a replacement certificate directly from AFS-760 (refer to §§ 61.29, 63.16, and 65.16(b)). A $2 replacement fee is required for each certificate to be replaced. The Web site is equipped to accept credit card payment. An airman may request a replacement certificate by an online request or may use the form found at the FAA Web site: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/certificate_replacement/. The airman may mail the completed FAA Form 8060-56 to AFS-760 at the address provided in subparagraph 5-152C.
also:
B. Obtaining a Temporary Certificate by Email or Fax for Immediate Use. An airman may request temporary authorization to exercise the privileges of their airman certificate through the FAA Web site at: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/airmen_services/. Within a few minutes, the airman will receive the authorization through either email or fax. The authorization will be valid for 60 days. Under certain extraordinary circumstances, an inspector may issue a Temporary Airman Certificate. Such a circumstance might be when no Internet or fax capability is available and the airman must make a return flight to domicile, continue an extended flight schedule, or continue with any near-term aviation employment. However, the inspector must be able to verify the airman’s certificate and ratings and their validity before issuing a Temporary Airman Certificate (see subparagraph 5-153D).
1) An airman may only receive a temporary medical certificate by calling the Aerospace Medical Certification Division, Medical Certification Branch (AAM-331), at (405) 954-4821. The airman will provide the Office of Aerospace Medicine (AAM) specialist personal information to validate their identity.
2) The specialist will, on verification of the airman’s information and within 30 minutes, fax a copy of a temporary medical certificate that will be valid for 60 days. A fax machine must be available to the airman to receive the certificate. There is no email option. A temporary medical certificate acquired in this manner will not result in the issuance of a permanent certificate. The airman must still submit a request for permanent replacement by the method identified in subparagraph 5-153A.
seems clear to me that only documents from the FAA are legal, not copies form kinko's
RotorAndWing
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Ok, now you're changing to "lost or destroyed" certificates. BTW, would you say 14 CFR Part 61.29 is an "enforceable" regulation? In other words, could someone receive a violation using 61.29?
Well, 61.29 specifically addresses "lost or destroyed" certificates. Why would it address anything about a copy?
BTW, if you do apply for a lost certificate, the FAA sends you what essentially is a copy.
You're really reaching here.
They don't? So you are saying an Inspector is not allowed to read regulation or guidance and make an informed decision? So every time anything comes up, he is required to call " the head office"??
BTW, what "Head Office" are you referring to?
RotorAndWing
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You're really reaching here.
BTW, I've got access to a very high dollar printer/copier here. I can run a copy of my medical and it would take a forensics expert to tell them apart. Do you think the DOT would bring in an Investigator from OIG to run an inspection to see which document is real, and which one is a copy?
James331
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Headset in one hand, iPad mini with a small legal pad attached to the from of the case in the other hand. Works for me.
Only time I'll bring my small flight bag with flashlights, GPS, handheld nav com, etc etc is if I'm going a long distance in a non electrical, or suspect electrical plane.
nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
Backup batteries for headset, fuel tester and dip stick (sometimes missing from rentals, so I carry my own), flashlight (for looking into the tiny oil filler door on a Cessna), RAM yoke mount for iPad Mini, kneeboard, backup paper chart (I was a Boy Scout - "Be Prepared"), water bottle, extra pens, band aids for that inevitable Cessna "diamond" cut on my forehead, etc. It adds up.
Dr. O
Pattern Altitude
Your "logbook" should be in a safe at home and your significant other promised to burn it as soon as he/she/it hears you died in a crash.
I have a scribble book in the plane that merely notes a date and time of flight which will prove I am current. That plus my Certificate and a copy of the medical in my pocket will suffice if I am ever ramp checked - at gunpoint, the only way they will get to do it.
I have a scribble book in the plane that merely notes a date and time of flight which will prove I am current. That plus my Certificate and a copy of the medical in my pocket will suffice if I am ever ramp checked - at gunpoint, the only way they will get to do it.
fiveoboy01
Pattern Altitude
Lol, okaaaay.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
Why?
(sorry, not sure if you're being sarcastic or mean it)
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Why?
Isn't it obvious? He wants his significant other to go to prison for obstruction, rather than remarry.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
That explains that part
(although probably not arrestable unless there was some kind of criminal investigation about the crash), but it still doesn't explain the scribble book 
. My confusion was about both.
fiveoboy01
Pattern Altitude
Looks more like tinfoil hat and less like sarcasm.
They're out to get you!
They're out to get you!
Not to mention my "FAA Original" medical was printed on a $50 scanner/printer at the AME's office.
RotorAndWing
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At my physical a year ago, the Doctor printed off my medical on her printer (a cheap one) and printed two copies, signed both of them and gave them to me.
Quick! Quick! Call the FAA!!!!!
unsafervguy
En-Route
why didn't she just sign one and copy it and sent that to the FAA?
maybe because it needs to be signed to be valid to the FAA?
what is so hard to understand that the FAA considers it a legal document, and as such only one issued by your AME or a replacement (no matter how they produce it) issued by them is legal.
but since you have been arguing this for years, i am done, but i will send a request to the FAA legal dept and ask for a ruling.
RotorAndWing
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Why? Medicals are done electronically now through MedExpress. She signs hers electronically, then prints the certificate out for the applicant and signs that one.
For some reason it printed out two, so she gave me both.
Should I turn myself in to the FAA??
See above.
What is so hard for you (and a few others) to see you are desperately trying to read something into the regulations that simply doesn't exist?
There ya go! Write the Chief Counsel! You're gonna make a lot of friends doing that one. (ask Mangiamele how that worked out)
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
I have mine stuffed in my wallet. It will last two years there (see bc I'm over 40 now). If you are in the 5-year medical category then maybe you'd want something else but honestly I've dug ancient medicals out of my wallet after 15 years and they were still perfectly legible, albeit a bit frayed on the edges.
azure
Final Approach
Oh for the love of Mike...
denverpilot
Tied Down
Good lord this thread went full retard. And you never never go full retard.
I love the crap about receiving a fax or an email. What do you think that document will look like printed on some doofuses ten year old inkjet at home that leaves streaks down the center and blobs of wrong colored ink? Because I'm sure someone is flying with something that looks like that in their wallet.
Shoot a picture of the damned thing and make a PDF out of it with your phone and upload it to Dropbox or other cloud location. Then stuff the original in your wallet. You have the PDF on every freaking device you own from then on if you need it, and the other one will be there in your wallet until it's time to renew anyway. If it was printed on a laser it'll imprint half of itself onto the other side of the paper with the warmth of your butt cheeks over the years and you'll never even notice anyway.
I love the crap about receiving a fax or an email. What do you think that document will look like printed on some doofuses ten year old inkjet at home that leaves streaks down the center and blobs of wrong colored ink? Because I'm sure someone is flying with something that looks like that in their wallet.
Shoot a picture of the damned thing and make a PDF out of it with your phone and upload it to Dropbox or other cloud location. Then stuff the original in your wallet. You have the PDF on every freaking device you own from then on if you need it, and the other one will be there in your wallet until it's time to renew anyway. If it was printed on a laser it'll imprint half of itself onto the other side of the paper with the warmth of your butt cheeks over the years and you'll never even notice anyway.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
I agree on "full retard" when one starts talking about asking for a Chief Counsel opinion on a pretty "who really cares?" issue.
But to be a bit technical, the fax replacement fromthe FAA is temporary:
You must include a check or money order for $2.00 made payable to the FAA. The Aerospace Medical Certification Division can fax you a record of your certificate that is valid for no more than 60 days, which should be enough time to receive your replacement certificate. To receive this fax and order a duplicate certificate, call (405) 954-7674 to reach the duplicate certificate desk. (my emphasis)
So it is actually not a copy of your medical, but a temporary record that you have one.
I think the difference between "official" and a copy, fax, scan or whatever isn't where it comes from but the existence of a pen-and-ink signature or other official marking of authenticity, which still means something in certain quarters. The quality of duplication techniques just means difficulty in telling a duplicate from an original, but both the US and most states have laws about counterfeiting (which doesn't just apply to money).
I haven't received a replacement of a lost medical, but I did receive a replacement medical some years ago due to a Special Issuance. Those replacements bore original signatures. I suspect the ones sent within 60 days after the fax do as well.
The bottom line is that, unless you were doing something incredibly stupid, the issue would not even come up. There's no identification function to a medical certificate and, as a number have pointed out, an FAA Inspector can simply look up for qualifications. But if compliance with a few rules isn't anathema, I'd say the requirement to carry a medical on one's person means the "real" one - bearing pen-and-ink signature, just like the drivers' license you are required to have on you isn't one you made using a color copier and laminated.
This is just another situation where the written rule has not kept up with technology and practices currently in use. The regulations are still from when your medical was tabbed to the form you filled out that came direct from the government printing office. It no longer works this way. On my gear up the guy didn't even ask for my medical, when he pulled up my certificate all the information was right there and he could see I had a current and valid one.
Lindberg
Final Approach
This all makes me wonder why the FAA has set up a procedure to request a copy of your medical certificate if copies are no good:
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/request_copy/
And I'm not aware of any law that generally prohibits making a copy of an official record (money and equivalents are a different story). Tampering yes, copying no. Of course someone may come along and prove me wrong.
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/request_copy/
And I'm not aware of any law that generally prohibits making a copy of an official record (money and equivalents are a different story). Tampering yes, copying no. Of course someone may come along and prove me wrong.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
The "copy" of the medical is, AFAIK, a pen and ink signed duplicate.
There's nothing that prohibits "making" a copy; there are likely still laws floating around that do not permit "using" a copy in place of an original.
By all means, test this out for yourself (assuming you are not in a state that has moved to digital drivers licenses). Drive about 20 MPH faster than the speed limit through a speed trap. When the LEO asks you for your driver's license, give him a photocopy. Let us know how that works out.
My naturalization papers state on them not to make copies, but that's the only place I've seen such orders.
fiveoboy01
Pattern Altitude
A few years ago when I moved back here from Nevada, I went to the WI DMV to get a new license. The procedure had changed and they mail you your license. In the meantime, they gave me a paper one that looked exactly like the one I would recieve, but in black in white. FYI. Didn't get to test it at a traffic stop though. BUT, I did use it to get into a downtown bar
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
A few years ago when I moved back here from Nevada, I went to the WI DMV to get a new license. The procedure had changed and they mail you your license. In the meantime, they gave me a paper one that looked exactly like the one I would recieve, but in black in white. FYI. Didn't get to test it at a traffic stop though. BUT, I did use it to get into a downtown bar
I woudnd't be surprised if there some indicator of some kind associated with it - maybe even just the date of issuance tells the LEO that the "real" one is pending.
fiveoboy01
Pattern Altitude
I woudnd't be surprised if there some indicator of some kind associated with it - maybe even just the date of issuance tells the LEO that the "real" one is pending.
I assume so. Just like the FAA guy can look anyone's up to see if it's acutally valid
MikeELP
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nimdabew
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This spans multiple different interests. Look up the Co traverse about something called the "Sight arm brace" from letters to the ATF. Some asshat decided one day to get a hair up his butt and write the ATF about it. I guess the ATF agebt decided that s/he had enough writing the same damn letter and made a contraversy.
Lindberg
Final Approach
It's completely unnecessarily. The LEO has everything he needs, including my insurance information, once he runs my license plates. Long gone are the days when the physical item was the credential itself. That's all in the cloud now. The physical license is still used for ID, like at the airport, which is why they put all those anti-counterfeiting measures on them now. But that isn't the case for a medical. Even if you have the one your AME signed, how would an inspector know? Does he have to recognize every AME's signature on sight? Of course not. If he cares whether you actually have a valid medical, he's going to check the database.
Stewartb
Final Approach
I asked the FAA about medical certs and what the "rules" were regarding copying. If the cert was issued by an AME it requires an original signature to be valid. If the copy was issued by the FAA it does not require the original signature, which explains why guys with SI certs often get them emailed or faxed.
Re: Driver licenses. Alaska now uses the "enhanced" driver license. You get a paper copy when you leave DMV and the real thing arrives by mail a few days later. Not a big deal until you fly commercially. The TSA doesn't accept the paper copies as identification. If you have a temp paper copy and need to fly... take your passport with you. It'll save you some heartache.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
All completely true. It's also true for your pilot certificate and medical. But so what? The very first thing a LEO in most states will still do is ask for your license and registration. And I'm making a WAG she won't be too pleased if your response is, "I don't carry it around! Go look me up!"
Don't like it? Want the law to keep up and be as fast as technological change? Go complain to your state legislature and the FAA if you think it's too much of a burden to carry that stuff around and you think they don't have more important things to do than lower the weight of your gear by a few ounces.
(BTW, I be happy to support your efforts. There's no reason to carry around 20% of what we do.)
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midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
Things may have changed since I stopped having an SI. When I did, it was definitely a pen-and-ink signed hardcopy document.
Never have and never would. I've lost wallets and gone swimming with them. I don't fly without my flight bag. They stay in there.
Everskyward
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Earlier this year I received a corrected copy of my medical "signed" by Courtney Scott (who wasn't the original AME). It's clearly a copy of his signature. The whole piece of paper is a copy of an image as I can see the individual dots which made it up. The only ink signature is mine, and I could have made numerous copies before I signed it.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
I really don't understand that one. I think it would be a very safe bet you carry far more important things in your wallet that an almost-immediately replaceable with no muss or fuss FAA medical certificate.
Come to think of it, I win the bet even if your wallet is completely empty, unless of course, your wallet cost less than $2.