Cant tell if good deal. 1st plane

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Jr Hampton, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. Jr Hampton

    Jr Hampton Pre-Flight

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    Yeah I know a plane is worth what whoever will pay but....

    79' Cheetah, 0320 150hp, 2025 TT and engine time since new.
    Garmin GMA 345 Audio Panel
    Narco MK12D NAV COM
    Narco 12D w/Glide Slope
    Narco Nav121
    Narco AT-150 Transponder
    Centry1 autopilot
    Apollo GX55 GPS.
    Looks to me overhaul out of the gate + ADSB solution ? -15k o/h + 5 ADSB? 20k or 40k plane ?
     
  2. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man Pattern Altitude

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    Depending on looks it sounds like a roughly 25k airplane.
     
  3. Jr Hampton

    Jr Hampton Pre-Flight

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    It is a looker from photos. Seller asking mid 40's.. I'd feel like a jerk coming in at 25.. but..dont know what sellers expect.
     
  4. Jr Hampton

    Jr Hampton Pre-Flight

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    LOL, yup, Told him I'd be a player at 30. He was not happy with my offer.
     
  5. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man Pattern Altitude

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    He will have it a while. Near run out engine, junk radios and auto pilot. I would expect in the 40's with a zero timed 160hp upgrade.
     
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  6. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Welcome to the market of emotional sellers. I'm just gonna wait for the economy to force their hand. Inventory should blow up this summer, especially if this govt shutdown continues in earnest and tanks the GDP one quarter earlier than I was forecasting. Give this guy your contact info and offer and tell him to give ya a call when he's emotionally ready to deal. Otherwise I'd keep looking and low balling. Most of the stuff in online land is overpriced junk. Don't misunderstand, I dabble in "junk", I just don't do the overpriced part. The reality is this guy is gonna be holding on to that airplane for a while.
     
  7. John221us

    John221us En-Route

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    I agree with above. You will need to budget for an engine, out of the gate and ASDB out.
     
  8. mwagg737

    mwagg737 Pre-Flight

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    I found this to be the case with most Grumman owners I called when I was looking.
    They seem to think their airplanes are worth more than they really are. They also seem to think their planes are worth more than the bank thinks they are worth.


    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
  9. FlySince9

    FlySince9 En-Route

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    I'd keep looking... seems the owner hasn't put anything into this plane... Your first annual is gonna be a hummdinger! (on top of what you already know) you could easily wind up being into this plane for 60k or more...
     
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  10. mwagg737

    mwagg737 Pre-Flight

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    When looking at planes, compare a bunch with what they need. You will eventually come up with an average price for a particular model.
    In my case, it was the 310. The "Q" model averaged 135K even though some could be had for 50K.
    The turnkey planes were about 135K and the lacking ones were around 50K. After doing everything to bring them up to speed, 135K was the magic number for the "Q"



    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
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  11. SOB8604

    SOB8604 Pre-Flight

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    FWIW I paid mid 30's for '79 cheetah, 3000tt/600on the engine since overhaul, had **** radios and inop auto-pilot.
     
  12. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The avionics are obsolete. The 12D's are unreliable to begin with and unserviceable. Jepp just announced that the database for the GX55 has gotten too large for national coverage, so you'll have to pick east or west.

    2000 hours is suspect (but so is 1000 hours on a infrequently flown plane). More investigation needs to be done.

    If you're truly interested in Cheetahs or Tigers, I suggest a type-specific forum.
     
  13. Jr Hampton

    Jr Hampton Pre-Flight

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    Thanks all ! Just beginning the "search" but not in earnest yet. This one just pooped up on a page and drew my interest. Cheetahs/Tigers, RV6A or 9A are what really floats my boat. Heck, I haven't slipped the surly bonds in over 2 years, so I gotta work on that first. But, always looking for "the one".
     
  14. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    I agree with the others, its a $20'sk plane not a $40k plane. Run-out engine, 1980's avionics, and I bet the paint and interior are original too. You gave your offer, let it sit and in a month he might call you back. Keep on looking and dont look back, $40k or more seems to be in the Tiger range anyway no??

    It could also very well be his wife is making him sell it. Price it high knowing you will not sell it. Ive seen that before!
     
  15. AnthonyS1

    AnthonyS1 Pre-Flight

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    Also plan for the engine overhaul costing more than 15k. I would say 20k at an absolute minumum.
     
  16. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    It doesn't matter what is worth to him. I'd be wants more than it's worth to you, you're not his buyer. Maybe he finds a buyer at his price, maybe not. But I've learned the lesson in many different ways that I'm not offering or paying more than what it's worth to me.
     
  17. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    I would walk on that plane. Too much needs updated. By the time you hang an engine and upgrade the avionics you will have more in the plane than its value.
     
  18. DanWilkins

    DanWilkins Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You can buy a nice plane for $60,000. That is what you are getting into. So start searching for good $60,000 airplanes.
     
  19. TheFB

    TheFB Pre-Flight

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    Wow, that is a ton for that plane.... And I’m one of those Grumman owners that probably thinks his Tiger is worth more than actual.

    My Tiger with under 50 hours after a very reputable overhaul and less old equipment was not much more than his asking. I’d walk away.
     
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  20. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Figure out the cost of equipment ,you will change out,plus engine overhaul. Do the math ,see if it is worth it to you. Make an offer.
     
  21. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

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    Buy two 150s for $40k and have gas money for a couple years left over. ;)
     
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  22. AlleyCat67

    AlleyCat67 Filing Flight Plan

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    Well, at least it's a better deal than this Tiger.
     
  23. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    When I was looking a dude wanted 60k for a Cherokee 180 that needed 40k of work.

    He was unhappy when I offered him 20k. Weirdest thing.

    Last I checked, the plane is still on the websites... and has been for the past few years.
     
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  24. chemgeek

    chemgeek Line Up and Wait

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    ^^^^^^^^
    This. The suggested price would be with GNS430 and a mid time engine, maybe with HC STC. Other than the audio panel, the avionics are all well past their expiration date. The runout engine alone will be north of $20k in the very near future.
     
  25. chemgeek

    chemgeek Line Up and Wait

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    Do yourself a favor and go to the AOPA Vref page and put in the plane, TT, and equipage to get a rough evaluation of value when you start shopping so you know about what to expect for a particular model and condition. It's not perfect, but a good place to start.
     
  26. Jr Hampton

    Jr Hampton Pre-Flight

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    Thanks again all. I've offered that is all I can do. And certainly not hung up on the plane so.. I'll be signing up for Vref when I get dead serious with searching. Maybe sooner if sweet deal pops up. Never know.
     
  27. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    you can join AOPA, and vref is one of the perks. I haven't been a member for a few years, so I don't know if that's still the case.
     
  28. Jr Hampton

    Jr Hampton Pre-Flight

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    Yes I'm a former member myself. lol. Will probably join once I get more active and actually flying again and or seriously looking for 1st plane, or need a hat, or new flight bag. or headset bag :) They do have some resources that could be useful.
     
  29. bflynn

    bflynn En-Route

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    Yeah, I don't know how that can be a 40k plane with outdated avionics and a runout engine? If you were to buy it and put 25k into the engine, would it be a 65k airplane?

    I call it 25-30. I don't know where he thinks the extra 10-15k comes from. He doesn't like the reality, so forget about him and move forward.

    Maybe he'll find some sucker to sell it to.
     
  30. atbroome

    atbroome Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That one does have a $14k prop mod on it. So maybe equally as bad?
     
  31. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi.
    As others have mentioned, it's around 25K in value, on the upper most real value, and it's likely that it may have been advertised for less about 6 months ago.
    The asking price of the used planes have gone out of normal envelope, mainly due, I believe, to Acft Brokers / Sales people that tell people that it's worth so much to get the listing. After about 6 months the owners know that they will not get pull the listing and sell it themselves for a reasonable price. I know of at least one that did that.
    Asking some of the owner / sellers they will tell you that most of the calls come from Brokers / Sales people to the point that they will no longer answer the phone.
    See if you can find something similar that sold about a year ago, and get a better idea of the value, a $25K offer does not sound way out of a starting point, if you have the cash, do an easy deal, in my opinion. A good Prebuy is a Must.

     
  32. texasag93

    texasag93 Line Up and Wait

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    That is proof to his wife that it is for sale.
     
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  33. Pascal Forget

    Pascal Forget Pre-Flight

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    The previous owner of my plane was asking too much. I just contacted him and told him that I could not afford more than X$ for his plane and to please contact me should he reconsider his price.

    Nearly eight months later, the airplane was still at his name in the aircraft registry, so I sent him a nice Merry Christmas email and btw did he sell his aircraft? And that's how I ended purchasing the plane at a price at which I could afford to make the upgraded I wanted without being upside down on the airplane should I have to resell it within a few years.
     
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  34. CRQFlier

    CRQFlier Pre-Flight

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    There's a lot of hair on this cat. I doubt seller drops below 40. I passed.

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
     
  35. Bill Gatlin

    Bill Gatlin Filing Flight Plan

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    You are correct....he has a Tiger also. Not hard up he will sell it eventually but in no hurry. Not gonna get it for 25 or even 35.
     
  36. Glen R

    Glen R Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I owned a '79 Tiger and loved it. A few years ago when I got back into flying I went looking for one. Looked and looked and looked. Virtually every one for sale had the old Narco stuff, minimal if any a/p, etc. Nothing under 60K. A few that were updated had asking prices close to 100K. I bought a Bonanza for that money. Don't know if it's a thing with the Grumman crowd or the same with other planes but it got beyond frustrating.
     
  37. Bill Gatlin

    Bill Gatlin Filing Flight Plan

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    I’m feeling the pain but a Cheetah fits my needs. I’m retiring and don’t want the maint headache. Fixed gear, fixed pitch prop and easy to maintain and don’t cost a fortune, will actually do over 105 knots. Something my kids and grandkids can learn to fly in and I can make 4 or 5 1200 mi cross country trips per year. I’m extremely picky so it makes it even harder. All lack avionics so I gave up on that. I may just have to build what I want but everyone wants an arm and a leg for one with a run out engine. Yes they may go to 3000 hrs but you going to let me pull the cylinders and check it out? So it’s like asking me to take the gamble on it for 25k. Nope not going too. And that Saavy aviation knucklehead has some video out about going over TBO all the sellers are referring to that like the shouldn’t take a hit for run out engines. Of course none of them are A&P’s with 45 yrs turning wrenches. Maybe I’ll get lucky.