Can't locate my POH

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SkyVoyager

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SkyVoyager
About 4 months ago I had my annual for my Archer where some significant maintenance was performed. That's to set the stage.

Fast forward to today... I was looking in my aircraft for my POH (yeah...I know...it's an owner's manual) to make sure I was recalling the proper tire pressure. I very rarely pull the book out as I use an electronic version on my iPad. I keep it in a bag that has been sitting on a rear seat all along. As it turns out, the manual wasn't in there.

Yeah...I know...Checking for the POH and W&B is standard preflight stuff. How many people actually look for this during their preflight? I typically fly alone or with one passenger (no luggage), so I don't refer to the W&B too often. I do use checklists, but I really don't go looking for my POH in my own plane.

Well...I'm really hoping the A&P took the POH out to update the W&B and just didn't return it, but I was wondering... What happens if the book is lost? How does one recover something like that? I do have a PDF of the last W&B and an electronic manual. Does that make things legal (at least for now?).

I am prepared to take a lashing, now. :mad2:
 
Contact an authorized repair place (Cessna/Piper/Bonanza) and they should be able to order a new one for you. Our club tried to do that for our lost POH and the only people they'd talk to was their authorized dealers. <sigh> $340 later we have one.
 
Is the electronic version the same one as originally in the aircraft, e.g. does it have the serial number? If so then it should be good to go when printed. Dunno 'bout strictly electronic.

Print the W&B and be done with worrying...
 
SkyVoyager said:
Well...I'm really hoping the A&P took the POH out to update the W&B and just didn't return it, but I was wondering... What happens if the book is lost? How does one recover something like that? I do have a PDF of the last W&B and an electronic manual. Does that make things legal (at least for now?).

I am prepared to take a lashing, now. :mad2:
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Well I am NOT going to lash. :wink2:

When was your airplane manufactured? If it was before March 1, 1979, you are good to go because a POH was not required prior to that date. You can get an Owners Manual/Information Manual from any number of places and since you have an electronic version of it that would suffice.

However, if your plane was manufactured AFTER March 1, 1979, an official Pilot Operating Handbook is required and you need to get that from Piper, as I recall. And technically your airplane would not be legal to fly without in onboard.
 
Since it's a Piper, you can contact New Piper in Florida. They have ALL the original AFM on fiche and will happily print a copy and send it to you. Remember, legal POH and AFM are unique to a specific serial number.

Once you get that crappy but legal photocopy of a fiche, the A&P will have to reconstruct to current status. This means W&B, and every bit of equipment that's been removed/replaced/added since the original AFM was created and shipped along with the airplane.

You may wonder how I know all this.....
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Well I am NOT going to lash. :wink2:

When was your airplane manufactured? If it was before March 1, 1979, you are good to go because a POH was not required prior to that date. You can get an Owners Manual/Information Manual from any number of places and since you have an electronic version of it that would suffice.

However, if your plane was manufactured AFTER March 1, 1979, an official Pilot Operating Handbook is required and you need to get that from Piper, as I recall. And technically your airplane would not be legal to fly without in onboard.
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It's a 1976 PA28-181.

Just to cover my derriere, what "officially" states the March 1, 1979 requirement?
 
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murphey said:
Since it's a Piper, you can contact New Piper in Florida. They have ALL the original AFM on fiche and will happily print a copy and send it to you. Remember, legal POH and AFM are unique to a specific serial number.

Once you get that crappy but legal photocopy of a fiche, the A&P will have to reconstruct to current status. This means W&B, and every bit of equipment that's been removed/replaced/added since the original AFM was created and shipped along with the airplane.

You may wonder how I know all this.....
Click to expand...

I'm hoping the W&B won't be that bad as it was just performed in a new avionics install back in February (the avionics shop should have that on record). If my A&P updated it, he should be able to reconstruct it pretty easily. (I have a copy of the W&B prior to the avionics install as the shop needed a copy...Lucky me!)

I really hope he has my book somewhere in his shop! :D
 
$300 plus from piper. The piper dealer in Florida that did my pre buy missed the fact there was no POH or weight and balance with my plane.
As I approach my first annual I'm just wondering what else they missed!
 
SkyVoyager said:
I typically fly alone or with one passenger (no luggage), so I don't refer to the W&B too often.
Click to expand...

SkyVoyager said:
I'm really hoping the A&P took the POH out to update the W&B and just didn't return it
Click to expand...

Not to beat you up, but if you thought he might have updated the W&B, why didn't you look for it at least the first time you flew it after the work was done, to see what the update was? :)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
When was your airplane manufactured? If it was before March 1, 1979, you are good to go because a POH was not required prior to that date.
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I'd like to add one caveat to that. Regardless of the mfg date If the plane was certified with an AFM then you'll be required to have one on board.

Our club has a 1969 Cherokee that requires an AFM.
 
SkyVoyager said:
Yeah...I know...Checking for the POH and W&B is standard preflight stuff. How many people actually look for this during their preflight?
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Every flight. Every time. And I have grounded club planes when required documentation was not on board. ARROW is the first item on my pre-flight checklist.

Now, go get the documentation replaced. Ouch.
 
Ghery said:
Every flight. Every time. And I have grounded club planes when required documentation was not on board. ARROW is the first item on my pre-flight checklist.

Now, go get the documentation replaced. Ouch.
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Mine just says Required Documents. There's no requirement for the second R nor the O and W in my case. Other than a half a dozen placards, the only requirement here is for the limitations book (which is distinct from the owners manual which is NOT required) and the equipment list. Of course, I do have a half a dozen flight manual supplements to the non-existent flight manual).
 
Ghery said:
Every flight. Every time. And I have grounded club planes when required documentation was not on board. ARROW is the first item on my pre-flight checklist.
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That may be the difference between owning your own plane and renting and/or being in a club.

I know where my documents are. Do I check them every flight? No.

I check them every few months or so and the results haven't changed in ten years. They're always where I left them.

The key, I guess, is making sure you remember where you left them. :)
 
Mafoo said:
Not to beat you up, but if you thought he might have updated the W&B, why didn't you look for it at least the first time you flew it after the work was done, to see what the update was? :)
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I'll take the beating.

They replaced a six pound part with a nine pound part. That wasn't going to make a big issue on my W&B planning. The burrito I ate yesterday probably makes a bigger impact.

Yep. I screwed up. (manual yes, burrito no)
 
I do have an update.

As I had hoped, the mechanic stored my manual along with my log books in his office. I have the manual back in my possession!!!

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm going to copy it, now!
 
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SkyVoyager said:
I'll take the beating.

They replaced a six pound part with a nine pound part. That wasn't going to make a big issue on my W&B planning. The burrito I ate yesterday probably makes a bigger impact.

Yep. I screwed up. (manual yes, burrito no)
Click to expand...

Yum. That should be the new thing:

The $100 Burrito.
 
SkyVoyager said:
I do have an update.

As I had hoped, the mechanic stored my manual along with my log books in his office. I have the manual back in my possession!!!

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm going to copy it, now!
Click to expand...

Good news, and a good plan. Happy flying.
 
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