Can you land a Cessna gracefully in a gusty crosswind?

[Henning]

Ungraceful, intact, and safe is okay... I've had some ungraceful ones in calm winds, at least the crosswind gives me an excuse...

The worst landing I ever had in the PA-12 I had over 300hrs in it (in less than 3 months) and it was perfectly calm (a new experience in that plane as typically 18kts on my pipeline routes was considered a calm day). I must have landed that sucker 6 times on my way down the runway.

 

[kyleb]

I would think the low winged aircraft would be a little more stable in a crosswind landing, especially closer to the ground, since the wing is closer to the ground...?

They are easier. The wind gradient means whatever wind exists has lower velocity the closer to the ground you measure. Also, low wings have a lower (as in physically closer to the ground) crosswind profile so they have less inclination to tip or roll due due to a crosswind.

I have no idea if these factors make a 10%, 20%, or 50% difference in the ease of landing in a crosswind, but they are enough to make a difference.

 

[Henning]

They are easier. The wind gradient means whatever wind exists has lower velocity the closer to the ground you measure. Also, low wings have a lower (as in physically closer to the ground) crosswind profile so they have less inclination to tip or roll due due to a crosswind.

I have no idea if these factors make a 10%, 20%, or 50% difference in the ease of landing in a crosswind, but they are enough to make a difference.

None of the above makes squat for a difference in anything but the imagination.

 

[spiderweb]

I can land a Cessna safely in a gusty crosswind (and even a gutsy one!).

 

[Anthony]

Yeah, the Tiger's a pussycat in crosswinds. The big rudder helps too.

 

[kyleb]

None of the above makes squat for a difference in anything but the imagination.

Believe what you will, but physics don't lie.

 

[azure]

I wouldn't go up in my Cessna (Cardinal RG) in 24G34KT straight down the runway, much less with a significant crosswind component. Around VLL the buildings everywhere cause so much turbulence on final whenever there's appreciable wind that it's just not fun at all. I don't even want to imagine what it would be like in 24G34. It's just not worth the chance of damaging the nosewheel or worse. I landed the other day in a direct crosswind 11G17 -- the last 50 feet over the shopping mall were like riding a bronco, bumps and sideways pulls and little rotors everywhere. I landed safely -- under control -- but definitely not gracefully.

 

[DavidWhite]

4/5 times I can plop it down on one wheel and make it look fairly good in an xwind. The fifth time I usually catch a big gust and get blown off centerline and plop it down.

 

[Henning]

Believe what you will, but physics don't lie.

You do not posess the ability to successfully fly between those sets of parameters.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Response to OP's thread title - yes.

 

[alfadog]

Can you land a Cessna gracefully in a gusty crosswind?

Yes. The same way you get to Carnegie Hall

Yes, you can

Response to OP's thread title - yes.

Well, I know y'all are as graceful as cats as you land that Cessna but what does it look like from the outside?

But seriously, if you can consistently make pretty landings under the conditions I describe then "Bravo" (as in theater, not airspace). Myself, I can land safely and intact but graceful? Not so much.

 

[Henning]

Well, I know y'all are as graceful as cats as you land that Cessna but what does it look like from the outside?

But seriously, if you can consistently make pretty landings under the conditions I describe then "Bravo" (as in theater, not airspace). Myself, I can land safely and intact but graceful? Not so much.

I have cross wind options you don't.

 

[alfadog]

I have cross wind options you don't.

Well, I did not include you in the multi-quote because you know we are not talking about your Cessna. Nor are we talking Citation.

 

[Ryan7943]

I can squeak a 172 in a gusty x-wind no problem. On the other hand I seem to have my worst landings on absolutely dead calm days. Go figure.

 

[p1l0t]

If you keep it slow (so the gusts don't lift you up too much) and KEEP THE DOWNWIND [wing into the wind I mean] WING DOWN, it isn't much different than landing a Piper. However, if the wind gets under your wing your going for ride in any airplane. I have never actually taken a 172 beyond its demonstrated component. The 177B I have, and some of the Pipers. What seems to be common, however is that the closer to the X/W component the less distance between the opposite rudder and the floor boards. When your foot is straight out and you cannot keep it straight it is time to find another runway. (Or pull your seat up

<---<^>--->

 

[p1l0t]

If you keep it slow (so the gusts don't lift you up too much) and KEEP THE DOWNWIND [wing into the wind I mean] WING DOWN, it isn't much different than landing a Piper. However, if the wind gets under your wing your going for ride in any airplane. I have never actually taken a 172 beyond its demonstrated component. The 177B I have, and some of the Pipers. What seems to be common, however is that the closer to the X/W component the less distance between the opposite rudder and the floor boards. When your foot is straight out and you cannot keep it straight it is time to find another runway. (Or pull your seat up

<---<^>--->

Although on approach you may ant increase your approac speed by half the gust factor.. When I say slow I mean when your over the runway safely.

<---<^>--->

 

[wabower]

Without realizing it, you're almost there. You now know the bronc ride down final will occur, and it will happen no matter what airplane you fly. Nobody gets a free pass on the approach. The local golf center is a half mile and slightly offset from the approach end from of our (and ATC's) preferred runway 15 at KADS, so we get to watch (and grade) numerous approaches during a typical practice session. On windy days everybody is fighting the bumps, no matter where their wing is bolted on or whether they are burning avgas or kerosene.

Once you know that you can keep it between the fence rows, the next learnin' is that you'll (probably) get your landing opportunity if you are patient and keep the airplane centered and longitude-aligned with the white stripe. Sitting there making somewhat rapid and repititious control inputs isn't anybody's favorite way to spend time in an airplane, but simply something you must do a few times in order to tame the beast, gain confidence and make your airplane much more usable during less-than-desirable wind conditions.

You may need to fly the length of the runway and repeat the approach, but I've never needed more than two passes to find a lull or direction swing or some combination that allowed a non-event landing. Not to say it is the most fun you'll have that day, but satisfying to know that you and your airplane are capable of accomplishing the job on many days that you might have otherwise stayed home.

As to the comparisons and opinions of wing location, a quick perusal of youtube and other websites will quickly dispel any notion that high-wing airplanes have an exclusive insofar as bad landings, airframe damage or loss of directional control is concerned. The lesser-light low-wingers who can't land high-wings in windy conditions are typically those who can't land any airplanes very well in windy conditions, so who cares what advice is being rendered by the bottom half of the class?

And in fairness, pilots of high-wing airplanes should probably be required to work a little bit during landings, just to make up for all of the creature comfort and stability advantages we enjoy, and to compensate in some small way for the time we don't have to spend pulling our pants out of our rear end after the step-climb, wing crawl, step down, scrooch up, scoot over routine that is required of the lowrequired to get into the pilot seat.

I wouldn't go up in my Cessna (Cardinal RG) in 24G34KT straight down the runway, much less with a significant crosswind component. Around VLL the buildings everywhere cause so much turbulence on final whenever there's appreciable wind that it's just not fun at all. I don't even want to imagine what it would be like in 24G34. It's just not worth the chance of damaging the nosewheel or worse. I landed the other day in a direct crosswind 11G17 -- the last 50 feet over the shopping mall were like riding a bronco, bumps and sideways pulls and little rotors everywhere. I landed safely -- under control -- but definitely not gracefully.

 

[Jeanie]

And in fairness, pilots of high-wing airplanes should probably be required to work a little bit during landings, just to make up for all of the creature comfort and stability advantages we enjoy, and to compensate in some small way for the time we don't have to spend pulling our pants out of our rear end after the step-climb, wing crawl, step down, scrooch up, scoot over routine that is required of the lowrequired to get into the pilot seat.
~~~~~~ that's funny.... I'm glad to pay my dues

 

[yakdriver]

And in fairness, pilots of high-wing airplanes should probably be required to work a little bit during landings, just to make up for all of the creature comfort and stability advantages we enjoy, and to compensate in some small way for the time we don't have to spend pulling our pants out of our rear end after the step-climb, wing crawl, step down, scrooch up, scoot over routine that is required of the lowrequired to get into the pilot seat.
~~~~~~ that's funny.... I'm glad to pay my dues

What about us guys that fly biplanes. Don

 

[wabower]

In the Stearman I had lots of fun on nice days, pulling back on the power made the wind in the back seat almost bearable with a cloth helmet, and I spent almost as much time wiping off the oil as flying the plane. A cross-country trip to McKiiney (26 miles) was (or felt like) the time equivalent of flying to Tulsa in the Cessna 180. I was amazed at the ease of X/W wheel landings but didn't ever push the limit. The museum sells nickel rides in both the Stearman and T-6, and I'm impressed with their airmanship insofar as flying with pax on days that I would just leave it in the shed.

What about us guys that fly biplanes. Don

 

[skidoo]

Well the winds are often stronger up high, so a high wing will have more of a challenge.

 

[david0tey]

I landed in almost direct crosswind conditions yesterday (14 gusting 22) and it was anything but graceful. My actual touchdowns weren't terrible, but the approach's were shaky. My airspeed was jumping between 60 and 80 all the way down to the flare.

 

[somorris]

And in fairness, pilots of high-wing airplanes should probably be required to work a little bit during landings, just to make up for all of the creature comfort and stability advantages we enjoy, and to compensate in some small way for the time we don't have to spend pulling our pants out of our rear end after the step-climb, wing crawl, step down, scrooch up, scoot over routine that is required of the lowrequired to get into the pilot seat.

You got that right, Wayne. Then reverse all that after landing. It's hard for me to understand why anybody would want to do that. I must be missing something!

 

[alfadog]

You got that right, Wayne. Then reverse all that after landing. It's hard for me to understand why anybody would want to do that. I must be missing something!

It is no big deal. My MR2 Spyder is harder to get into than my Arrow

And that is no big deal either, even for an old fat guy

 

[Henning]

I just avoid being fat and hopping on the wing and scooting across the wing is no problem for me and the also not overweight people I fly with. We all seem to do just fine either way. We should diminish our choices because of someone else's self inflicted handicap?

 

[alfadog]

I just avoid being fat and hopping on the wing and scooting across the wing is no problem for me and the also not overweight people I fly with. We all seem to do just fine either way. We should diminish our choices because of someone else's self inflicted handicap?

I would rather be fat than intolerant and rude, thank you very much. Those "self inflicted handicaps" you can keep.

And I can lose weight, as the old saw goes. Good luck with yours.

 

[Henning]

I would rather be fat than intolerant and rude, thank you very much. Those "self inflicted handicaps" you can keep.

And I can lose weight, as the old saw goes. Good luck with yours.

Ah, so so fat is claiming minority status exemptions now. Fat are allowed to insult the not fat, but not the other way around, got it.

 

[alfadog]

Ah, so so fat is claiming minority status exemptions now. Fat are allowed to insult the not fat, but not the other way around, got it.

No, my friend. It is not about who gets to insult whom. It is about knocking off the insulting.

I am still trying to figure out the "minority" thing. Are you claiming that minority get to insult non-minorities? Oh, I think I get it, you are saying that you can't insult minorities and now "fat" wants to be a minority and not get insulted? More of the same then. Just stop insulting people. Problem solved.

 

[Skylane81E]

Well, I know y'all are as graceful as cats as you land that Cessna but what does it look like from the outside?

But seriously, if you can consistently make pretty landings under the conditions I describe then "Bravo" (as in theater, not airspace). Myself, I can land safely and intact but graceful? Not so much.

Practice practice practice.

My primary CFI used to call me on windy days after all his "chicken" students canceled to go fly. Saved my ass when the wind kicked up on my first XC in my 182. Each and every attempt I was on speed, target and centerline. 4 times I went around because the gusts were hitting be in the flare and causing what would have been poor landings at best.

Try 5 the timming worked out and the gust hit just before the flare and the greaser was greasy.

I've found that if I don't force the plane down things tend to work out. The more I fight the worse it gets. Just fly the plane

 

[eMKay]

No. lol. I hate landing the Cessna when it's gusty. Much better in the 140. Haven't tried them in the Archers yet.

 

[Henning]

No, my friend. It is not about who gets to insult whom. It is about knocking off the insulting.

I am still trying to figure out the "minority" thing. Are you claiming that minority get to insult non-minorities? Oh, I think I get it, you are saying that you can't insult minorities and now "fat" wants to be a minority and not get insulted? More of the same then. Just stop insulting people. Problem solved.

Do you never watch Comedy Central and BET stand up comic shows? I didn't realize anyone didn't see that in our society. Black comics, Hispanic comics, they can all make fun of themselves, each other, and Caucasians. Caucasians are only allowed to make fun of Caucasians. Even obesity is represented, look at Ralpie May and the 'Fluffy' Mexican; they can make fun of themselves and other obese people as well as people who are not obese. But let a person that falls within accepted medical and FAA standard weight limitations and BMI make a joke about obesity and it's 'Oh My God'. You know it's socially unacceptable when the only time you see/hear it happen is on a 'Roast'.

Also when obesity was considered by the medical industry to be a disease, they made obese people a minority, not me.

 

[Jay Honeck]

With the way I flew Saturday I can't even land a Cessna in calm wind.

Mary and I have gotten to the point where our calm-wind landings are worse than average. On our island there is ALWAYS wind, usually (but not always) right down the (single) runway -- so on those rare occasions when it stops, everything feels weird and float can occur.

My experience in Skyhawks and 182s is that the high wing/higher center of gravity makes Cessnas much more susceptible to cross winds. Our Warrior was much easier to land, and our current ride, the Pathfinder, is quite easy to land in a crosswind, thanks to heavier (low) wing loading.

 

[alfadog]

Do you never watch Comedy Central and BET stand up comic shows? I didn't realize anyone didn't see that in our society. Black comics, Hispanic comics, they can all make fun of themselves, each other, and Caucasians. Caucasians are only allowed to make fun of Caucasians. Even obesity is represented, look at Ralpie May and the 'Fluffy' Mexican; they can make fun of themselves and other obese people as well as people who are not obese. But let a person that falls within accepted medical and FAA standard weight limitations and BMI make a joke about obesity and it's 'Oh My God'. You know it's socially unacceptable when the only time you see/hear it happen is on a 'Roast'.

Also when obesity was considered by the medical industry to be a disease, they made obese people a minority, not me.

Henning, you are no comic. And I think I will leave it at that.

 

[Skylane81E]

No. lol. I hate landing the Cessna when it's gusty. Much better in the 140. Haven't tried them in the Archers yet.

The pipers ive flown I think the fat ass wing is the difference. They just fall on to the runway without noticing the air around them.


Cessna wings actually FLY

 

[N801BH]

[
People with very little self control that eat too much are the defination of :self infliced handicap".

The overweight / obese epidemic is VERY unhealthy and is costing me and the rest of us who maintain a healthy life style more each month when we pay our medical insurance premium.....

Ya wanna stuff your face with twinkies, potato chips, 60 oz big gulps, 10 big macs etc, etc,etc..... Have at it,,,, but fat people need to be charged accordingly on their health insurance to cover the greatly increased chance of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, cancer, joint wear and tear and all the other ailments associated with being overweight.... YOUR problem should not cost me a higher premium, but in this bizzare day and age common sense has flown right out the friggin window, and overweight / fat /obese people will scream discrimation when confronted with that fact...

As a side note............ Have you all noticed the ever increasing number of people with handicap cards hanging on their rear view mirror. The vast amount of them are fat... and getting fatter... Why... Because they get to park right up front so they don't have to walk their fat ass so far... They need to be parking in the very outlaying parking spots so they can get some excersize while shopping for more twinkies..... When I see those people I usually wait a second to scan the situation to see if they pull out a wheel chair or cane or crutches... If they get out with nothing more then excess fat then I will confront them and with the same speal I just wrote.... I ain't shy and they don't hurt my feelings either, the ONLY thing they are hurting is my WALLET..

Now back to your regular scheduled thread of landing a Cessna..:wink2:

 

[alfadog]

People with very little self control that eat too much are the defination of :self infliced handicap".

The overweight / obese epidemic is VERY unhealthy and is costing me and the rest of us who maintain a healthy life style more each month when we pay our medical insurance premium.....

Ya wanna stuff your face with twinkies, potato chips, 60 oz big gulps, 10 big macs etc, etc,etc..... Have at it,,,, but fat people need to be charged accordingly on their health insurance to cover the greatly increased chance of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, cancer, joint wear and tear and all the other ailments associated with being overweight.... YOUR problem should not cost me a higher premium, but in this bizzare day and age common sense has flown right out the friggin window, and overweight / fat /obese people will scream discrimation when confronted with that fact...

As a side note............ Have you all noticed the ever increasing number of people with handicap cards hanging on their rear view mirror. The vast amount of them are fat... and getting fatter... Why... Because they get to park right up front so they don't have to walk their fat ass so far... They need to be parking in the very outlaying parking spots so they can get some excersize while shopping for more twinkies..... When I see those people I usually wait a second to scan the situation to see if they pull out a wheel chair or cane or crutches... If they get out with nothing more them excess fat then I will confront them and with the same speal I just wrote.... I ain't shy and they don't hurt my feelings either...

Now back to your regular scheduled thread of landing a Cessna..:wink2:

 

[FlySince9]

People with very little self control that eat too much are the defination of :self infliced handicap".

I have fought to keep my weight under control my whole life, and it is not from "Over-eating!" Even when I was in the Service and very active, I had to maintain an ongoing program to pass my annual weigh-in. Now that I have other physical challenges, I find it more and more difficult to exercise as much as I used to and the pounds are slowly, accumulating, and I feel like I almost have to stop eating all together to arrest the trend.

Though there are many people out there that fit your box of criticism, there are others that don't. I hate the words ALL, NEVER, ALWAYS, AND NONE... They are rarely accurate.

You can have your opinion and your pet peeves, and you are entitled to vent. But it is not necessary to attack somebody, personally, that you know nothing about.

 

[Lawreston]

Nice thread, timely. Yesterday CFI and I flew from KIWI(once named by AOPA as world's 3rd worst c/w airport) to Knox Cty KRKD(Tracey will relate) also at the ocean's edge; to Augusta KAUG(Teller 1900) where when you sit at 17 you can't see the other end; back to KIWI where the c/w was cranking. All a good experience, with new(to me) CFI.

After a couple of Safe but Not Graceful landings KIWI, the 2nd of which I "booked 2" the CFI took us around the patch to demonstrate. Upon his landing I was smiling when I said, "OK, now you can 'book 2' on THAT one." But it was a good day for having logged 6 landings.

Oh, for Teller 1900: at Augusta 17/35 has construction equipment at each shortened end, soon to be closed to any commercial traffic for two months; and the 111.4 VOR will soon be GONE. And there's a serious turkey problem at Knox County.

HR

 

[N801BH]

I have fought to keep my weight under control my whole life, and it is not from "Over-eating!" Even when I was in the Service and very active, I had to maintain an ongoing program to pass my annual weigh-in. Now that I have other physical challenges, I find it more and more difficult to exercise as much as I used to and the pounds are slowly, accumulating, and I feel like I almost have to stop eating all together to arrest the trend.

Though there are many people out there that fit your box of criticism, there are others that don't. I hate the words ALL, NEVER, ALWAYS, AND NONE... They are rarely accurate.

You can have your opinion and your pet peeves, and you are entitled to vent. But it is not necessary to attack somebody, personally, that you know nothing about.

The first sentence of my post is.........


"People with very little self control that eat too much are the defination of :self infliced handicap".....

Since that does not fit your situation I don't understand why you are upset at me .



I don't attack anyone. ... I express my opinion....

Just like you expressed your opinion...

 

[FlySince9]

The first sentence of my post is.........


"People with very little self control that eat too much are the defination of :self infliced handicap".....

Since that does not fit your situation I don't understand why you are upset at me .



I don't attack anyone. ... I express my opinion....

Just like you expressed your opinion...

I am not upset with you, and I didn't think you were attacking me... I have a thicker skin than that... I was simply commenting on what appeared to be your take on Henning's comments.