Can I log PIC?

kgruber

kgruber

Final Approach
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Suppose a pilot in Alaska who has been flying without a "license" for the past 40 years finally gets his PPL. Say he amassed 10,000 hours doing all sorts of "commercial" flying.

Can he log all that time as PIC?
 
You could log it as PIC if you want make it easier for the FAA to bust you if something goes wrong and they look at the books. But it doesn't count as legal PIC.

Or, you could keep two sets of books - one for the FAA and one to impress chicks with.
 
kgruber said:
Suppose a pilot in Alaska who has been flying without a "license" for the past 40 years finally gets his PPL. Say he amassed 10,000 hours doing all sorts of "commercial" flying.

Can he log all that time as PIC?
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Eastern Washington? What caused you to move to the dry side?

Bob Gardner
 
You can log whatever you like. It's what you present to the FAA that matters.
 
Captain said:
You can log whatever you like. It's what you present to the FAA that matters.
Click to expand...
Ah, the old "two sets of books" theory. Worked well for organized crime.

Or are you thinking that when the FAA asks for your logbook in connection with an investigation, you get to decide which parts of it to present for inspection?

It's been tried and I always wonder whether the pilot ever got his certificate back.
 
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kgruber said:
Suppose a pilot in Alaska who has been flying without a "license" for the past 40 years finally gets his PPL. Say he amassed 10,000 hours doing all sorts of "commercial" flying.

Can he log all that time as PIC?
Click to expand...
Serious answer (leaving aside the dubious wisdom of providing a record of a federal criminal offense) to a semi-serious question:

61.51(e) starts with, "Logging pilot-in-command flight time.
(1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-"

Since he was not a sport, recreational, etc pilot at the time he flew those flights, no, he is not entitled to log the time for them as PIC after the fact any more then you get to go back and log all your student dual as PIC after you earn a private certificate.
 
Bigger question does the illicit time have any value getting a lower insurance rate?
 
What about being the sole manipulator of the controls or the only "crew" member? So yeah, I think he can log it.
However that would make it much easier for the FAA to discover what he's doing. So probably best not to.
 
ebykowsky said:
Better question is: does he care?
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Don't know. He fought hard enough to keep the FAA from looking at his logbook. He may have been happy enough to quit flying (I'm assuming a lack of the stupidity inherent in the DUI defendant who hops in his car after his conviction and drives from the courthouse in the view of the officer who arrested him for the DUI. Could be a bad assumption on my part)
 
midlifeflyer said:
...(I'm assuming a lack of the stupidity inherent in the DUI defendant who hops in his car after his conviction and drives from the courthouse in the view of the officer who arrested him for the DUI. Could be a bad assumption on my part)
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Is the attribution of stupidity in that example based on the assumption that the conviction resulted in the suspension or revocation of his driver's license?
 
midlifeflyer said:
Don't know. He fought hard enough to keep the FAA from looking at his logbook. He may have been happy enough to quit flying (I'm assuming a lack of the stupidity inherent in the DUI defendant who hops in his car after his conviction and drives from the courthouse in the view of the officer who arrested him for the DUI. Could be a bad assumption on my part)
Click to expand...

Not exactly what I meant... he obviously wants to keep flying, but what's going to stop him from flying after his license is rescinded?
 
ebykowsky said:
Not exactly what I meant... he obviously wants to keep flying, but what's going to stop him from flying after his license is rescinded?
Click to expand...

There are penalties for flying without a required certificate, although they apparently don't get applied very often.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It's been tried and I always wonder whether the pilot ever got his certificate back.
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If the person is flying without a " Certificate " what " Certificate " would he get back?
He lost no certificate for he had NO certificate.

Tony
 
Palmpilot said:
There are penalties for flying without a required certificate, although they apparently don't get applied very often.
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That is correct. They start with "civil penalties" (essentially fines, but for legal reasons called something different) of several thousand dollars. If that doesn't work, they can get DoJ to charge you criminally and put you in a Federal penitentiary.

As for how often they are applied, keep in mind that the FAA's main aim is to encourage compliance. So, if they find someone who never had a certificate out flying an airplane, their initial plan might be to obtain agreement to stop flying illegally, get the training, pass the tests, and start flying legally. Generally, it's only when the person indicates unwillingness to comply or is a repeat offender, or there is money involved (e.g., flying for hire as opposed to just flying yourself for fun) that they pull out the bigger stick of civil penalties. They don't seem to go for jail time unless taking the person's money doesn't change the person's behavior or there is other criminal activity involved (in which case the other criminal activity is usually a worse legal problem for the person involved than flying without a license).
 
Have you ever heard of "Grove" Field in Camas Washington?

Mr. Grove built the airport after WWII and from then on was the mechanic there. He re-built many airplanes and did annuals and all the regular IA A&P stuff for hundreds of airplanes. He repaired my Cub's elevator after a tugboat ran into it.

After he died the FAA found he was never a mechanic. They were so ticked off that they somehow were able to remove his NAME from the airport. That ticked off the locals so much that a decade later it was renamed back to Grove.

People loved him and he did great work. The FAA does nothing to help aviation. They only do things that assure their jobs.
 
Yeah but without the FAA the Mr. Groves of the world could... oh wait.:lol:
 
bobmrg said:
Eastern Washington? What caused you to move to the dry side?

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

He got smart? Some day my wife and I are getting out of the rain (yeah, I know, not much this winter) and moving back to Pullman. Don't know when, it will be a few years, but I could see it happening.
 
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