Can I ferry a friends plane?

Mike Smith

Mike Smith

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A friend bought a plane in NC, we live in Alabama. (long story) Can I fly her plane home for her? She is a pre-solo student, I am PPL. Is there a legal scenario for me to make the trip? If not, she can hire someone, if so, how? Now, where is the popcorn emoji?
 
mikeinbama said:
A friend bought a plane in NC, we live in Alabama. (long story) Can I fly her plane home for her? She is a pre-solo student, I am PPL. Is there a legal scenario for me to make the trip? If not, she can hire someone, if so, how? Now, where is the popcorn emoji?
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If you pay for the cost of the flight, you're fine.
 
MAKG1 said:
Considering he isn't hauling passengers or cargo, why does he even need that?
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PP rules have been interpreted that free flight time is compensation. If you pay for the fuel, you're in the clear.
 
What if I didn't pay for fuel, but didn't log the time?

ETA, the more I think about this, the less I think its a good idea anyway. But the question remains.
 
mikeinbama said:
What if I didn't pay for fuel, but didn't log the time?

ETA, the more I think about this, the less I think its a good idea anyway. But the question remains.
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That works as well, but when you can log time for the price of fuel, it's an opportunity most PPs don't pass up. If you are not looking to log any more time, that works just fine.
 
mikeinbama said:
A friend bought a plane in NC, we live in Alabama. (long story) Can I fly her plane home for her? She is a pre-solo student, I am PPL. Is there a legal scenario for me to make the trip? If not, she can hire someone, if so, how? Now, where is the popcorn emoji?
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Just do it, and STFU about it. let her fly it and not charge her for it or log the time. your still PIC.
 
Henning said:
PP rules have been interpreted that free flight time is compensation. If you pay for the fuel, you're in the clear.
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Yes, but the prohibition is against transporting people or cargo for hire.

So, it might be "compensation," but doesn't appear to be prohibited compensation.

It's perfectly legal for someone else to pay for a flight if you're solo. Heck, parents do that for kids' flight training (including solo work) all the time.
 
You can fly her in her airplane and let her pay for half the flight. Nothing in the rules says anything about having to own the airplane you're flying. You just can't be paid to fly the thing. If you pay your half you should be fine, despite not owning the aircraft.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yes, but the prohibition is against transporting people or cargo for hire.

So, it might be "compensation," but doesn't appear to be prohibited compensation.

It's perfectly legal for someone else to pay for a flight if you're solo. Heck, parents do that for kids' flight training (including solo work) all the time.
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Flying a flight that you did not have a personal stake in is acting as a pilot for hire, and ferry flights count in the FAA's books. Parents do it all the time because nobody really cares. Like Tom said, just STFU and go fly it, or have her fly it while riding in the right seat. No big deal, nobody cares, nobody. The only reason she needs a PIC (or an endorsement from her CFI) in the plane is in case she needs to collect on the insurance.
 
Who really cares,do your friend a favor ,and relocate the plane,take her along for the ride.
 
ifly4fun said:
Wouldn't the plane itself be cargo?
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It's confusing two issues, Commercial Pilot, and Commercial Operator (135...). The pilot to get compensated for ANY flight (a couple exceptions like glider tow for glider time and such) requires a CPL. In addition rider to haul Pax or Cargo for hire, you need a 135 certificate (or bigger).
 
I still say you can fly from point A to point B, and so long as you aren't getting paid (gotta pay your own gas and you might even kick in a little for fixed costs) you aren't breaking any rules at all. You can take the owner along so long as she doesn't pay more than half the cost. You aren't ferrying anything if the aircraft is in annual. You are flying from point A to point B.

The one thing I wouldn't do is put the student pilot in the left seat with me in the right, unless I was a CFI or very familiar with flying from the right seat in that model aircraft. Of course, were I a CFI I wouldn't be worried about breaking the rules vis-a-vis getting paid.
 
Tom-D said:
Just do it, and STFU about it. let her fly it and not charge her for it or log the time. your still PIC.
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Well guess it had to happen one of these days, I'm agreeing with Tom here.

Just do the flight, let her pay for fuel, log it and STFU about it.

Or write her a check before you go, not your fault if she never cashes it.
 
Hey Mike wanna fly my plane?
Sure
Well it's parked at airport (fill in the blank) just one other thing.
What's that?
When you done leave it at airport (fill in the blank).
Sounds great. Thanks for letting me use it.
 
Now, do us all a favor and start another thread about which one can log time as PIC...

It'll be a hoot. Have fun!
 
The real answer depends no how attractive said friend is.
 
Funny- an email once went out on my airport's list serv for a ferry pilot to fly a 172 from TX to our airport in Maryland. Being a CP with a current 1st class medical, I figured I could free up a couple days to knock it out and make a few bucks, so I emailed the guy and told him I could probably make it happen. He emails back saying that he is offering the plane for the discounted rate of $130/hr to make the flight. YGTBSM!
 
petrolero said:
The fact that she owns an airplane would add a couple extra points on the attractiveness scale too.
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It seems the best looking female pilots never need bother buying an airplane in order to log flight time. If you look at the social media sites for ladies such as Gulfstream(Global) girl or (the other) Amelia Earhart, bald, middle aged airplane owners are falling over themselves to offer these lovely aviatrices flights in their spam cans. Of course they're posting selfies from the cockpits of F-16s and the like...good luck boys, but if you're not burning kerosene, forget it.
 
steingar said:
I still say you can fly from point A to point B, and so long as you aren't getting paid (gotta pay your own gas and you might even kick in a little for fixed costs) you aren't breaking any rules at all. You can take the owner along so long as she doesn't pay more than half the cost. You aren't ferrying anything if the aircraft is in annual. You are flying from point A to point B.

The one thing I wouldn't do is put the student pilot in the left seat with me in the right, unless I was a CFI or very familiar with flying from the right seat in that model aircraft. Of course, were I a CFI I wouldn't be worried about breaking the rules vis-a-vis getting paid.
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Exactly, if she's along you only have to pay half the gas as well. This isn't a big deal, and if it works out some other way "Don't ask Don't Tell" comes into play. They won't ask, you don't tell.
 
Brad Z said:
It seems the best looking female pilots never need bother buying an airplane in order to log flight time. If you look at the social media sites for ladies such as Gulfstream(Global) girl or (the other) Amelia Earhart, bald, middle aged airplane owners are falling over themselves to offer these lovely aviatrices flights in their spam cans. Of course they're posting selfies from the cockpits of F-16s and the like...good luck boys, but if you're not burning kerosene, forget it.
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And the guys who really have something to show for themselves, or some self respect, see right through that crap.

No matter how good she looks, there is someone who is sick of her crap.
 
Brad Z said:
bald, middle aged airplane owners are falling over themselves to offer these lovely aviatrices flights in their spam cans.
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I've witnessed this and not just with spam cans - some nice aerobatic machinery and even a P-51 in one case has been offered up for solo use. But in all cases these guys were past "middle age".
 
James331 said:
And the guys who really have something to show for themselves, or some self respect, see right through that crap.

No matter how good she looks, there is someone who is sick of her crap.
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Barter is better than cash, in the end, we're all whores.
 
Brad Z said:
Funny- an email once went out on my airport's list serv for a ferry pilot to fly a 172 from TX to our airport in Maryland. Being a CP with a current 1st class medical, I figured I could free up a couple days to knock it out and make a few bucks, so I emailed the guy and told him I could probably make it happen. He emails back saying that he is offering the plane for the discounted rate of $130/hr to make the flight. YGTBSM!
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I called a similar, laughed at him.
 
mikeinbama said:
What if I didn't pay for fuel, but didn't log the time?
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The FAA has waffled on that. Bottom line is you have to figure a way to convince the FAA that you not only didn't log it, but will never log it. Better to just pay for the fuel -- or get a Commercial Pilot ticket and get paid time and expenses.
 
MAKG1 said:
It's perfectly legal for someone else to pay for a flight if you're solo. Heck, parents do that for kids' flight training (including solo work) all the time.
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Not if the party paying is getting something of value in return, as it is in this case, namely, the airplane being moved per the owner's desires.
 
steingar said:
You can fly her in her airplane and let her pay for half the flight.
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No can do -- you have no "common purpose" for the flight. The only reason you're there is to fly the plane, so you must pay the full direct cost of the flight.
 
ifly4fun said:
Wouldn't the plane itself be cargo?
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No, but the service of moving the plane is still something of value to the aircraft owner, hence a quid pro quo is established (transportation of the aircraft in return for free flying time) unless the pilot pays 100% of the direct cost of the flight.
 
Ron Levy said:
No can do -- you have no "common purpose" for the flight. The only reason you're there is to fly the plane, so you must pay the full direct cost of the flight.
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I can think of a "common purpose," but getting compensation for that is illegal in 49 states.
 
steingar said:
I still say you can fly from point A to point B, and so long as you aren't getting paid (gotta pay your own gas and you might even kick in a little for fixed costs) you aren't breaking any rules at all. You can take the owner along so long as she doesn't pay more than half the cost. You aren't ferrying anything if the aircraft is in annual. You are flying from point A to point B.
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You can say that, but the FAA Chief Counsel disagrees with you.
 
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