Can I ferry a friends plane?

SkyDog58 said:
Heck... let's get more silly. Here is a multiple choice question. I do not know if it is in the FAA test bank or not.

Teenage kid flies his dad's airplane for free all throughout getting his PPL and even afterwards. Should we:

a. Crucify him.
b. Burn him at the stake.
c. Stone him.
d. Silently be envious while still feeling good for him.
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Ron would say a, b and c. And do all three at the same time just for good measure. And add in some pseudo lawyer Latin to make it sound legal.

The rest of us would answer d.

:D
 
Tom-D said:
for those who flew their buddies aircraft and did not fuel it. there were no direct costs.
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Sure there were, they may simply be deferred. Unless the airplane never flies again, there will be gas money spent to make up for the time you put on the airplane.
 
RoscoeT said:
Sure there were, they may simply be deferred. Unless the airplane never flies again, there will be gas money spent to make up for the time you put on the airplane.
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I've seen times that having the fuel gone is an asset.
 
PAustin said:
So if a buddy asks if I want to go fly his plane around the patch for fun, and I'm gone for 20 - 30 minutes. (Happens a lot) I can't log it unless "I" put gas back in it?
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No. Your buddy can give you the use of the plane as long as he's not getting anything in return. In particular, the service of ferrying the plane to your pal's benefit is such a service of value to your pal, and requires a CP ticket if you're getting loggable flight time in return.

So....... Should I have not logged any of the time when I went and played with the little bi-plane? If so, maybe I better not let any of my buddies fly any of my planes unless they have a gas can in hand or commercial rating?
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The issue is whether you are getting anything in return for letting them fly the plane. If they ferry your plane somewhere at your behest and to your benefit, then it isn't legal. But if you get nothing out of it other than the joy of giving, then it's a legal gift of flight time.
 
Sheesh... Fill the tanks with your credit card and have them give you some cash. Now you can prove you paid fuel.

This is too much...
 
Kritchlow said:
Sheesh... Fill the tanks with your credit card and have them give you some cash. Now you can prove you paid fuel.

This is too much...
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Unfortunately, a lot of folks here seem to confuse "what is legal?" with "what's the chance of getting caught?", and take exception to an accurate answer to the first on the grounds of either "that's totalitarian!" or "that's not fair!" or "how will they find out?"
 
Ron Levy said:
Unfortunately, a lot of folks here seem to confuse "what is legal?" with "what's the chance of getting caught?", and take exception to an accurate answer to the first on the grounds of either "that's totalitarian!" or "that's not fair!" or "how will they find out?"
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Ron, I have made it through many years of aviation living by one rule.. Possibly the most important rule in all of aviation --> Use good judgement.

Disclaimer- I'm not saying forget the regs. It's just when regs are gray or unclear, if one uses good judgement things tend to work out fine.
 
Ron Levy said:
Unfortunately, a lot of folks here seem to confuse "what is legal?" with "what's the chance of getting caught?", and take exception to an accurate answer to the first on the grounds of either "that's totalitarian!" or "that's not fair!" or "how will they find out?"
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Be realistic Ron, What isn't logged never happened.
 
Henning said:
That's the most idiotic interpretation of something I have ever heard, congratulations.
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You wrote it. Nothing you replied with supported your assertion that bad laws that aren't enforced, "dilute" good ones that are enforced.

You argued instead, that laws don't make anyone do anything. Which is true. Dilution of nothing is nothing.
 
gitmo234 said:
Sometimes what is logged never happened, see the "can I log PIC" thread :rofl::rofl::rofl:
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If it is written, and you signed it, the FAA can and will use it against you.
 
Ron Levy said:
No. Your buddy can give you the use of the plane as long as he's not getting anything in return. In particular, the service of ferrying the plane to your pal's benefit is such a service of value to your pal, and requires a CP ticket if you're getting loggable flight time in return.

The issue is whether you are getting anything in return for letting them fly the plane. If they ferry your plane somewhere at your behest and to your benefit, then it isn't legal. But if you get nothing out of it other than the joy of giving, then it's a legal gift of flight time.
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I can rent any aircraft and leave it anywhere I please, that is not a Commercial operation, neither by the owner or me. So yes the owner can be paid for the use of their aircraft by any one.

I can rent the aircraft, and take Pax, that is not a commercial op either.

So, If the new owner in the first post wanted to rent the aircraft to their friend, the friend may carry the owner as a Pax. the renter can leave the aircraft any where they both agree on.
 
Tom-D said:
I can rent any aircraft and leave it anywhere I please, that is not a Commercial operation, neither by the owner or me. So yes the owner can be paid for the use of their aircraft by any one.

I can rent the aircraft, and take Pax, that is not a commercial op either.

So, If the new owner in the first post wanted to rent the aircraft to their friend, the friend may carry the owner as a Pax. the renter can leave the aircraft any where they both agree on.
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And there is no stipulated rental rate. If I owned a 172 I could rent it for a penny an hour. I would be very popular and could probably get lots of people to fly my plane even if the rule was pick it up at this airport and leave it at this other one.
 
So far as I can tell there is no requirement to record in you logbook or elsewhere who paid for a flight or how much was paid. Or should we all be stapling receipts to our log pages? If push comes to shove, it will most likely be a he said/she said sort of thing and the person making the accusation is most likely not a party to the agreement that led to the accusation.

If you are mute, it is moot.
 
SkyDog58 said:
So far as I can tell there is no requirement to record in you logbook or elsewhere who paid for a flight or how much was paid. Or should we all be stapling receipts to our log pages? If push comes to shove, it will most likely be a he said/she said sort of thing and the person making the accusation is most likely not a party to the agreement that led to the accusation.

If you are mute, it is moot.
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Correct.

Even if it did come to the attention of an Inspector, it would be a quick "make sure you understand the regs and have a nice day".

The majority of this thread is just, once again, mental masturbation. :rolleyes2:
 
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