Calling all Electrical Engineers or others !!

[SteveB]

Looking for opinions..........

I am 45, a Master Electrician with 28 years in the trade, and an electrical contractor for the past 12 years. Over the years I have witnessed a significant change in the ethics of my competitors and have grown sick of it. This is among other things and overall just looking for something different.

I have performed many different aspects of electrical work from Residential, Commercial, and light Industrial. Additionally, I have some experience with PV solar systems and quite a bit of agricultural based installs (which encompasses explosion proof locations).

I am considering going after a electrical engineering degree and am interested in opinions of the profession. More specifically, would my current skills be of any asset, and what are the outlooks for the profession?

Is it to late to start a new career? Am I to old? Experience a negative?

My wife has a great job and I farm part time as well....so finances should not be an issue.

Any opinions/advice would be appreciated.

Thanks, Steve

 

[Mafoo]

Looking for opinions..........

I am 45, a Master Electrician with 28 years in the trade, and an electrical contractor for the past 12 years. Over the years I have witnessed a significant change in the ethics of my competitors and have grown sick of it. This is among other things and overall just looking for something different.

I have performed many different aspects of electrical work from Residential, Commercial, and light Industrial. Additionally, I have some experience with PV solar systems and quite a bit of agricultural based installs (which encompasses explosion proof locations).

I am considering going after a electrical engineering degree and am interested in opinions of the profession. More specifically, would my current skills be of any asset, and what are the outlooks for the profession?

Is it to late to start a new career? Am I to old? Experience a negative?

My wife has a great job and I farm part time as well....so finances should not be an issue.

Any opinions/advice would be appreciated.

Thanks, Steve

I am not who you asked, (computer engineer), but I will give my 2 cents anyway.

If you started now, you would get your degree around age 49. You will be entering the job market with no experience and thus competing with 22 year olds for the same jobs.

I would suspect most employers will want the young ones. Mainly because they can get away with paying them less, and if in the off chance they become lifers, it's longer then 15 years.

So you are setting yourself up for a tuff battle.

However that being said, if money is not really an issue, and you really want to do it, I would say go for it. Learning is fun. Hell if I didn't have to work and money was not an issue, I would probably have 10 degrees. (English would not be one of them )

 

[Gary F]

I got my bachelor's degree in EE in 1980 and worked for a year designing power and lighting systems for textile mills. Your background would have been very useful for that particular job but that would not be the case for most EE jobs. EE is really applied mathematics and unless you have an aptitude for math you might find it a real struggle.

 

[wsuffa]

First, it's never too late if you're motivated.

Second, it depends on what you want to do with the degree. Electrical Engineers are involved in everything from design to certification and regulatory matters in microelectronics to power systems. If you intend to become a consultant or work alongside architects in designing buildings (or doing inspections, or a host of other public-facing situations), you'll need to get your professional engineer license (which generally requires the BSEE degree and some period of creditable work experience).

Your background as an electrical contractor is probably most applicable to design/inspection/certification of power systems in buildings, maybe larger power systems. You CAN do other types of work, just that knowledge of the NEC is directly applicable to building/premises power distribution. Virtually all commercial buildings need MEP-type engineering services (E=electical) - whether for power distribution, alarm systems, etc. And many jurisdictions want engineers as inspectors. Power companies need engineers to design/oversee power systems engineering. There is a market out there....

It will be a lot of math to get the degree and pass the exams - so you'll need to be/become math-proficient.

 

[Matthew]

Something to think about - there are engineering companies that encourage their non-engineer employees to pursue an engineering degree. If you can get a job at a place like that, as a technician, they'll most likey reimburse some of your educational expenses, then promote you to an engineering position when you finish. This is the long way: you'll be working full time and going to school evenings and weekends. You;d really have to consider age plus completion time if you go this route.

On the other hand - there are also companies that do hire electricians to work in-house for maintenance or other production support. That's another way to get out of the contractor rat race.

 

[Old Geek]

60 year old non-degreed electrical and mechanical engineer here.

I think it depends on what you want to do. Given your contracting and electrician background, you would do well to end up a PE license, being able to sign off construction projects and civil work. Competing with the kids will be tougher. I pretty much don't bother trying. I make a good living designing and building unique but relatively low-tech gadgets. If you have an inventive streak, you can have a lot of fun and make enough money to fly every week.

 

[flyingron]

I'm a degreed Electrical Engineer but I've pretty much been in the computer (mostly software, but I had a stint designing networking and supercomputer hardware) industry.

I'd say go for it. If you want to get into the emerging fields (PV, etc..), I'd check out whatever institution you are considering to see what applicability they have for you.
Frankly, I learned little in my formal training that was of direct practical use (that's not what my school was into).

 

[dell30rb]

Just remember to consider opportunity cost in your decision. That is, will you make back the money you spend on tuition, PLUS the money you would have made if you had been working full time for those four years - before you retire.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I don't know what State you're in, but some will waive the education requirement for licensure if you have a sufficient amount of relevant experience. You still have to go through the testing process, starting with the EIT.

 

[JGoodish]

Just remember to consider opportunity cost in your decision. That is, will you make back the money you spend on tuition, PLUS the money you would have made if you had been working full time for those four years - before you retire.

Agreed.

Also consider the fact that a new career may have the same or similar ethics-challenged competitors as your existing career. Human beings are still human beings regardless of the career of choice.


JKG

 

[Old Geek]

Agreed.

Also consider the fact that a new career may have the same or similar ethics-challenged competitors as your existing career. Human beings are still human beings regardless of the career of choice.


JKG

Engineering is considered by many to be the last noble profession. For the most part, I agree.

 

[Henning]

Agreed.

Also consider the fact that a new career may have the same or similar ethics-challenged competitors as your existing career. Human beings are still human beings regardless of the career of choice.


JKG

Yeah, that... Regardless the field you go to, you will deal with the same variety of scumbags that will cut your throat for fifty cents. If that is the reason you want to change up careers, you're wasting your time and money. If you want to learn something new or just have a change of pace going to school with the financial ability to do so, then go for it, life is about what you think. If you want to not have to deal with scumbags, well, good luck on that.

 

[Palmpilot]

It's hard to predict what the job market will be like in four years.

Are there any companies you work with that hire engineers? If so, maybe they could give you an opinion on how your age and work experience would affect your prospects.

In general, I think practical experience is a plus for any engineer.

I found what I learned in engineering school to be interesting and powerful, even though there was a lot of it that I didn't use every day.

 

[Henning]

It's hard to predict what the job market will be like in four years.

Are there any companies you work with that hire engineers? If so, maybe they could give you an opinion on how your age and work experience would affect your prospects.

In general, I think practical experience is a plus for any engineer.

I found what I learned in engineering school to be interesting and powerful, even though there was a lot of it that I didn't use every day.

Personally I think it should be a requirement, minimum 2 years in the field to be licensed in, especially mechanical engineers.

 

[Gary F]

Personally I think it should be a requirement, minimum 2 years in the field to be licensed in, especially mechanical engineers.

In most states you need 4 years experience to get licensed as a professional engineer.

Steps to become a P.E. While each state licensing board has its own laws regarding engineering licensure, there is a general four-step process for licensure candidates:

1. Earn a degree from an ABET-accredited engineering program.
2. Pass the FE exam.
3. Gain acceptable work experience (typically a minimum of four years). In most cases, this must be completed under the supervision of a P.E.
4. Pass the PE exam in the appropriate discipline.

http://www.ncees.org/Licensure.php

 

[jesse]

Honestly I think you could make as much or more money doing what you do now. A fresh out of school EE job is what, a 50k salary?

I'd guess a master electrican is just as likely to make the same amount of money over a career as any EE can. Maybe even more.

You're probably better off staying in your field while trying to build a successful business.

 

[redtail]

Something to think about - there are engineering companies that encourage their non-engineer employees to pursue an engineering degree. If you can get a job at a place like that, as a technician, they'll most likey reimburse some of your educational expenses, then promote you to an engineering position when you finish. This is the long way: you'll be working full time and going to school evenings and weekends. You;d really have to consider age plus completion time if you go this route.

On the other hand - there are also companies that do hire electricians to work in-house for maintenance or other production support. That's another way to get out of the contractor rat race.

Amen! That's what I did after starting off as an electrician working residential. Did that for a little more than a year and just got fed up. Wasn't fun anymore and I hated working in people's nasty homes

Got hired in 1986 by the Port Authority of NY & NJ working as an industrial electrician at Newark and LaGuardia airports, installing and maintaining the runway lighting systems, terminal buildings, control tower electrical systems, etc. Now I'm a systems controller in the electrical control room (no more dirty work)

Can't speak on the engineering aspect, never thought I'd have much fun in that field. Good luck if you do go for it!

Edit: forgot to mention the excellent benefits package they've provided over the years.

 

[jhausch]

If I were in your shoes, I might search out an engineering program with a focus on the medium/high voltage and power gen fields that offered some test-out opportunities.

 

[JGoodish]

Engineering is considered by many to be the last noble profession. For the most part, I agree.

Professional business culture has changed over the past few decades, not necessarily for the better, and the last I looked, engineering hadn't been exempted from the change.

If the motivation for a career change is to move away from the scumbags, not even a career in the clergy would accomplish that goal. If the motivation is a true passion for a new field of study, that's another matter entirely.


JKG

 

[Henning]

Engineering is considered by many to be the last noble profession. For the most part, I agree.

Engineering is also conserved a department full of idiots to be fleeced and worked to their graves with minimal compensation and no regards to quality of life. All depends on who you ask, Engineers or MBAs.

 

[X3 Skier]

Personally I think it should be a requirement, minimum 2 years in the field to be licensed in, especially mechanical engineers.

In Ohio, you had to have a minimum of two years experience before you could apply for a Professional Engineer Licence after you took the Engineer in training exam, IIRC from the dark ages when I got mine. I also had a co-op job while in school as an apprentice machinist so when I graduated with a BSME, I was also a journeyman machinist so if that Engineering stuff didn't work out, I could go make metal chips for a living.

As far as the OP, you can probably get "life credit" for a lot of the non- engineering/non technical courses and you likely know way more practical electrical info than 90% of the new graduate EE's. I know I did back then when graduate engineers would bring me drawings and asked what certain info meant.

Cheers

 

[JimNtexas]

Most EE's I know don't bother with a PE. It's not required for most EE jobs outside of construction.

You're pretty much in a similar position to a person retiring from the military wanting to start a second career.

The opportunity costs of being a full time student for 3 or 4 years or so need to be considered, but I bet you'd easily be employable in the aerospace, energy, or computer industry at the end of it.

You will likely have to relocate. If you're not willing to relocate at the end of your EE studies then you'll be much more limited.

 

[X3 Skier]

Engineering is also conserved a department full of idiots to be fleeced and worked to their graves with minimal compensation and no regards to quality of life. All depends on who you ask, Engineers or MBAs.

Life sure must have changed from my time. OTOH, name a profession requiring a degree to practice that isn't in the same boat working for the man, especially for the first few years. Lawyers, Physicians, engineers, accountants, MBA Consultants, whatever. If you are good enough to make the cut, life is good. If you can't life is hard.

Cheers

 

[Henning]

Life sure must have changed from my time. OTOH, name a profession requiring a degree to practice that isn't in the same boat working for the man, especially for the first few years. Lawyers, Physicians, engineers, accountants, MBA Consultants, whatever. If you are good enough to make the cut, life is good. If you can't life is hard.

Cheers

Yes, the nature of business has changed. MBAs now run everything and everything is there to serve the stock price and their bonus. That's why our country is in the sad shape it's in.

 

[catmandu]

Get a nursing degree. Specialize in EKG's.

 

[Henning]

Nursing is the best field to go into in the world by far. You can work anywhere in the world you want, work visas are never a problem for nurses and many places pay significant bonuses for coming including deeded houses for mid term (5 year or so) commitments. The deal for nurses is far better than for doctors even.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

If that's what you want to do, do it.

EE is a lot of math. And I've known PHD EEs that didn't know enough about electricity to fix a flashlight. But there are also those who really understand how things work and can get the job done. And Electrical Engineering covers a real wide range of topics and jobs.

Don't let the whiners deter you. I've had a pretty good ride for most of the last 38 years - some were better than others, but, looking back, it was a good choice (I'm mechanical engineer but spent a lot of years working on control systems and software).

 

[Clark1961]

I made the choice to go back to school for an engineering degree in my field at the age of 25. At 45 it'd be much tougher. What part of the world do you live in and what are the opportunities nearby if wife & farm demand that you stay put?

 

[Ghery]

Honestly I think you could make as much or more money doing what you do now. A fresh out of school EE job is what, a 50k salary?

I think we're paying significantly more than $50k a year for an RCG (Recent College Grad) engineer where I work. I know we're paying more than that for technicians.

I worked in heavy construction on a co-op job when I was in college (many decades ago). Haven't worked construction since, but things I learned on that dam have been very useful over the years. Yes, I am an electrical engineer, but my primary focus is electromagnetic compatibilty. When building labs the old construction items beat into my head then have been quite useful. The OP will find that to be the case, even moreso with his experience.

As far as a PE goes, I'm 60, been working as an engineer for 37 years and don't have one. Working for a company I don't need it. If I wanted to work independently and call myself an engineer the state licensing folks would insist on my having it. Now, I'd like them to show my ANYTHING on their test that relates to what I do. I am certified in my specialty by the one body in the world that provides such certification (iNARTE). The iNARTE certification, which I've held for about 25 years, is far more useful in my work. That, and work experience.

If you want to go back to school and get a BSEE, go for it. Couple that with your experience and you should do well. That first job might be a challenge to get, but it's worth it.

 

[SteveR]

I'm an EE with my PE. I am a consulting engineer, and honestly I think your best bet if you want to do engineering is to find a company that you can work for as a non-degreed designer. As an electrician you know a lot that guys never learn in school and that is really valuable to the right company. If you make yourself valuable as a designer, you can make 65k to 85k, or 80% to 90% of what you'd make with a degree, without going a few years without pay while in school and without paying for a degree. We have several non-degreed designers, I actually just hired a new one who starts in a week. With the right people it works out good for the company and the person. The person gets paid significantly more than they could in any other job, and the company gets a good designer at a discount. Over time, I think you could make as much money this way as you could going to school. Taking a few select classes might be valuable however.

If you have a good relationship with any engineers, I suggest approaching them about the idea.

 

[denverpilot]

If you go for the EE, do it because you want/need to learn something specific for a very specific targeted job you have an "in" at. Otherwise at your age, it's a waste of money.

There's piles of fresh meat out there. Companies are using them as cannon fodder for regular rounds of layoffs. Anyone entering the field right now has no surprise coming that they won't hold the job and have enough seniority to survive a layoff round until job number three.

Starting ten years of uncertain employment at 40+'would take special planning, if you really want it.

The grass is always greener on the other side, until you get there and find out they're using that green spray paint.

With no EE network of friends, I'd start there and badger them about requirements to see it for certain. When they start hemming and hawing, be direct and ask if their employer has ever hired a 40-something with no previous EE experience. Watch their eyes.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I'm an EE with my PE. I am a consulting engineer, and honestly I think your best bet if you want to do engineering is to find a company that you can work for as a non-degreed designer. As an electrician you know a lot that guys never learn in school and that is really valuable to the right company. If you make yourself valuable as a designer, you can make 65k to 85k, or 80% to 90% of what you'd make with a degree, without going a few years without pay while in school and without paying for a degree. We have several non-degreed designers, I actually just hired a new one who starts in a week. With the right people it works out good for the company and the person. The person gets paid significantly more than they could in any other job, and the company gets a good designer at a discount. Over time, I think you could make as much money this way as you could going to school. Taking a few select classes might be valuable however.

If you have a good relationship with any engineers, I suggest approaching them about the idea.

You don't have to quit working to get a degree. It may take a little longer, but I have several students that are working full time and going to school (some nearly full time at school as well). You also don't have to take the summer off from school like "traditional" students - that helps you get to the degree in less time.

 

[SteveR]

You don't have to quit working to get a degree. It may take a little longer, but I have several students that are working full time and going to school (some nearly full time at school as well). You also don't have to take the summer off from school like "traditional" students - that helps you get to the degree in less time.

True...but getting an engineering degree while working full time would mean that you are #1 very, very disciplined and #2 willing to spend almost no time with your family during that ~5 or more years. Not worth it IMO. As I remember it, spending 3 hours a day studying, 6 days a week was just barely scraping by. 4 to 6 hours a day was what seemed to be needed for a full time engineering student to get decent grades.

 

[wsuffa]

If you go for the EE, do it because you want/need to learn something specific for a very specific targeted job you have an "in" at. Otherwise at your age, it's a waste of money.

There's piles of fresh meat out there. Companies are using them as cannon fodder for regular rounds of layoffs. Anyone entering the field right now has no surprise coming that they won't hold the job and have enough seniority to survive a layoff round until job number three.

Starting ten years of uncertain employment at 40+'would take special planning, if you really want it.

The grass is always greener on the other side, until you get there and find out they're using that green spray paint.

With no EE network of friends, I'd start there and badger them about requirements to see it for certain. When they start hemming and hawing, be direct and ask if their employer has ever hired a 40-something with no previous EE experience. Watch their eyes.

A slightly different view - there is a real deficit of folks entering the STEM fields these days. The big focus is on kids in/leaving high school, but even at the older levels it's tough to find qualified engineers (and yes, that's even considering the number of folks able to get work visas). Most of that focus in on the high-tech side & alternative energy, so someone with a background as an electrician is more likely to start from scratch in those area... except that someone needs to design the power side of alternative energy generating facilities. I also see a push into resiliancy - power companies are going to be pushed to make the critical infrastructure more resiliant. Opportunity.

At certain levels and certain functions what you say is true. In my experience, one needs to remake themselves every few years anyway to stay relevant in the business world.

As for your last comment, again it depends. Someone coming in to the power field as an experienced electrician that knows NEC and can apply it will have a huge leg up over someone just starting out. The real question is what the job will pay and whether that pay is commensurate with the experience. I know one company (in Boulder, no less) that would send promising non-degreed employees to UC for an engineering degree - and pay for it. There are companies like that around, just have to find them.

 

[Matthew]

Maybe turn it around - how about teaching?

 

[oldShar]

In most states you need 4 years experience to get licensed as a professional engineer.

Steps to become a P.E. While each state licensing board has its own laws regarding engineering licensure, there is a general four-step process for licensure candidates:

1. Earn a degree from an ABET-accredited engineering program.
2. Pass the FE exam.
3. Gain acceptable work experience (typically a minimum of four years). In most cases, this must be completed under the supervision of a P.E.
4. Pass the PE exam in the appropriate discipline.

http://www.ncees.org/Licensure.php

And to that, most states also require recommendations from supervising engineers before your application will be processed; so be sure not to burn any bridges or step on anyone's toes prior to getting licensed.

 

[Henning]

With those experience requirements, I can only conclude that no engineer working for an auto manufacturer is a licensed PE. If any of them had ever worked as a mechanic we would not see some of the idiocy in automobile design that exists. There are cars out there where you have to lift the engine 6" to change the starter...

 

[Old Geek]

With those experience requirements, I can only conclude that no engineer working for an auto manufacturer is a licensed PE. If any of them had ever worked as a mechanic we would not see some of the idiocy in automobile design that exists. There are cars out there where you have to lift the engine 6" to change the starter...

The reason you have to lift the engine to change the starter has nothing to do with poor engineering. It has to do with engineers having to meet production cost constraints at the expense of maintainability. An engineer's job is to produce a product that meets agreed-upon specifications. Now if the engineer could have built that car so that it cost the same and didn't need to be lifted up 6" to change the starter, it's his fault. But I'll bet that he couldn't.

And having a PE license is more about having something the government can take away if you screw up than being a guarantee of competence. Sorta like a pilot certificate.

 

[Matthew]

Sometimes it's tough to cram 10 lb of **** into a 5 lb bag.

 

[Henning]

The reason you have to lift the engine to change the starter has nothing to do with poor engineering. It has to do with engineers having to meet production cost constraints at the expense of maintainability. An engineer's job is to produce a product that meets agreed-upon specifications. Now if the engineer could have built that car so that it cost the same and didn't need to be lifted up 6" to change the starter, it's his fault. But I'll bet that he couldn't.

And having a PE license is more about having something the government can take away if you screw up than being a guarantee of competence. Sorta like a pilot certificate.

Not buying into it. Most of the time it's simple oversights. I work on to much equipment where various things do the same job at the same price point and one will be a maintenance nightmare due to poor design work and the other will be simple to maintain. I would accept that they do it to drive factory/dealer service up though. I always loved the "No user serviceable parts inside" stickers, 75% of the time that is a $600+ lie.