Call the ball...

That was cool! So many questions though...

For example, it's obviously a visual approach. What happens if the weather is below minimums for it? I assume that can happen...

Also, what does "call the ball" mean?
 
Mistake Not... said:
That was cool! So many questions though...

For example, it's obviously a visual approach. What happens if the weather is below minimums for it? I assume that can happen...

Also, what does "call the ball" mean?
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"Call the ball" is telling the pilot to acknowledge that that he sees the meatball on the lens. The Landing Signals Officer will then "roger" the ball call and usually point out where on glideslope (or lineup) the landing aircraft is, if he is significantly deviated. It kind of puts everyone on the same page before the landing approach starts.

The carriers have ILS and ACLS for bad weather and night operations.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Interesting. I assume the ILS is stabilized too?
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The ACLS is primary and is stabilized, and is communicating both ways. The ILS is kind of like a backup and works by a totally different system. Most guys have it up and ready because the ACLS is good but it can do some strange stuff. The ILS stabilization is different than the ACLS so they won't always be coincident. I don't remember the specifics but the ILS may have been only point stabilized, I just remember that there was some limitation to the ILS. I never had a problem with it though.
 
Cooter said:
The ACLS is primary and is stabilized, and is communicating both ways. The ILS is kind of like a backup and works by a totally different system. Most guys have it up and ready because the ACLS is good but it can do some strange stuff. The ILS stabilization is different than the ACLS so they won't always be coincident. I don't remember the specifics but the ILS may have been only point stabilized, I just remember that there was some limitation to the ILS. I never had a problem with it though.
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We used to have a SPN-46 in the radar room at Miramar. After we (USMC) took over, they disabled it so I wasn't able to see it in action. I was told that too large of a dogleg intercept and it would slam the stick again the pilot's thigh.
 
Cooter said:
The ACLS is primary and is stabilized, and is communicating both ways. The ILS is kind of like a backup and works by a totally different system. Most guys have it up and ready because the ACLS is good but it can do some strange stuff. The ILS stabilization is different than the ACLS so they won't always be coincident. I don't remember the specifics but the ILS may have been only point stabilized, I just remember that there was some limitation to the ILS. I never had a problem with it though.
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When did they start putting ILS on carriers and in Navy tactical aircraft?
 
luvflyin said:
When did they start putting ILS on carriers and in Navy tactical aircraft?
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As far back as I know of. It's called ILS (or ICLS) but it isn't the same system, I should've made that clear. It is a set of pre-channelized frequencies that the carrier uses and it used to be at some of the Navy airfields. I'm not even sure if they are still supported anymore at the fields. Instead of dialing up a VHF freq, you would select 1 of 20 (I think), channels to get the needles.
 
Velocity173 said:
We used to have a SPN-46 in the radar room at Miramar. After we (USMC) took over, they disabled it so I wasn't able to see it in action. I was told that too large of a dogleg intercept and it would slam the stick again the pilot's thigh.
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I see NKX has an ILS approach. Do F18's have ILS?
 
I'm listening to the audiobook of Flight of the Intruder right now. It was written by an aviator so there are plenty of operational details, including IMC approaches that don't go perfectly. The only problem is I can't listen to it while flying, for the same reason you shouldn't watch a Formula 1 race while driving.
 
iamtheari said:
I'm listening to the audiobook of Flight of the Intruder right now. It was written by an aviator so there are plenty of operational details, including IMC approaches that don't go perfectly. The only problem is I can't listen to it while flying, for the same reason you shouldn't watch a Formula 1 race while driving.
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Why am thinking about those Northwest guys who overflew Minneapolis.
 
luvflyin said:
Do F18's have ILS?
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Few if any. [I was going to saw 'no' but 35 AoA has posted that some Growlers were getting them]. I thought EA-6B's were getting them but don't know for sure. They're all but gone anyway.

Nauga,
and his bullseye
 
Velocity173 said:
We used to have a SPN-46 in the radar room at Miramar. After we (USMC) took over, they disabled it so I wasn't able to see it in action. I was told that too large of a dogleg intercept and it would slam the stick again the pilot's thigh.
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Stick doesn't move in a Hornet on a coupled approach. :)

Nauga,
and a forced-feel
 
iamtheari said:
I'm listening to the audiobook of Flight of the Intruder right now. It was written by an aviator so there are plenty of operational details, including IMC approaches that don't go perfectly. The only problem is I can't listen to it while flying, for the same reason you shouldn't watch a Formula 1 race while driving.
Click to expand...

The only thing I watch when driving is the road and traffic. Oh, and the hot chicks walking down the street. But who watches any sort of tv or video?
 
SkyDog58 said:
The only thing I watch when driving is the road and traffic. Oh, and the hot chicks walking down the street. But who watches any sort of tv or video?
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20somethings+/-
 
Trivia: In the Lucille Ball/Henry Fonda movie "Yours, Mine, and Ours," Henry Fonda's character is in charge of the first FLOLS integration on a US carrier.

Nauga,
and movies about balls
 
SkyDog58 said:
The only thing I watch when driving is the road and traffic. Oh, and the hot chicks walking down the street. But who watches any sort of tv or video?
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Aren't we supposed to learn to divide our attention between inside and outside the cockpit?

Seriously though, I recommend the book so far. Decent story and lots of naval aviator speak. Now to find a naval aviator to answer more in depth questions like why the needles are off and the pilot told to ignore them in half of the instrument approaches. ACLS easily confused?
 
iamtheari said:
Aren't we supposed to learn to divide our attention between inside and outside the cockpit?

Seriously though, I recommend the book so far. Decent story and lots of naval aviator speak. Now to find a naval aviator to answer more in depth questions like why the needles are off and the pilot told to ignore them in half of the instrument approaches. ACLS easily confused?
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Din't ya know all LSOs are near-sighted and cross-eyed? The needles were right...
 
iamtheari said:
Aren't we supposed to learn to divide our attention between inside and outside the cockpit?

Seriously though, I recommend the book so far. Decent story and lots of naval aviator speak. Now to find a naval aviator to answer more in depth questions like why the needles are off and the pilot told to ignore them in half of the instrument approaches. ACLS easily confused?
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ACLS can be very good or very bad, so although you can trust it you cant completely trust it. One of the big dangers is that another aircraft will be locked up and the guidance that you are seeing is actually for an aircraft behind you. I've seen that cause some scary moments. I always kept my ILS needles up just so I could see a significant deviation and deselect ACLS if I needed to.
 
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Cooter said:
As far back as I know of. It's called ILS (or ICLS) but it isn't the same system, I should've made that clear. It is a set of pre-channelized frequencies that the carrier uses and it used to be at some of the Navy airfields. I'm not even sure if they are still supported anymore at the fields. Instead of dialing up a VHF freq, you would select 1 of 20 (I think), channels to get the needles.
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It's coming back to me now. I worked at NLC back in the 80's. ACLS was in then. There was some panel there, I remember someone saying it's the ILS but there was no ILS approach. It must have been one of those ICLS's.
 
Cooter said:
ACLS can be very good or very bad, so although you can trust it you cant completely trust it. One of the big dangers is that another aircraft will be locked up and the guidance that you are seeing is actually for an aircraft behind you. I've seen that cause some scary moments. I always kept my ILS needles up just so I could see a significant deviation and deselect ACLS if I needed to.
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Locking on to the wrong target was a problem at NLC. We ran simultaneous approaches there, 4600 feet between center lines. ACLS was to 32L. It would lock onto the plane on 32R every now and then. Had to watch that pretty closely.
 
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