Call signs?

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prancingmoose

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prancingmoose
I've got a question on aircraft call signs, specifically for PA28s. I got my private in a Warrior, and when talking to ATC, I either said "Warrior N..." or "Cherokee". Never had any problems until I got to the collegiate program I'm in now and started flying the Arrow. I was taxiing one day, and called up and said "Cherokee.." and my instructor fussed at me and said to always say the specific model.

A few weeks later, I'm flying with my dad in his Dakota and I called up tower and said "Dakota.." which was followed by confusion from the controller as to what kind of aircraft it was. I finally just said Cherokee and he was happy. There's a big speed difference in a 160hp Warrior and a 235hp Dakota though, and I would think that knowing the specific model would be good..

Thought? I've had contrasting answers from several different instructors.
 
It varies with controllers and pilots. Don't get too caught up with it. When all else fails just say make, not model. IE Piper. Cessna, etc. ATC should be trying to figure out your speed but often the controllers have no idea how fast one model is compared to the other. But I would always bow to the instructor when flying with one.
 
Don't even bother if you are flying a Light Sport. To the guy in our tower we are all just "Light Sport XXXYY" No differentiation.
 
prancingmoose said:
I've got a question on aircraft call signs, specifically for PA28s. I got my private in a Warrior, and when talking to ATC, I either said "Warrior N..." or "Cherokee". Never had any problems until I got to the collegiate program I'm in now and started flying the Arrow. I was taxiing one day, and called up and said "Cherokee.." and my instructor fussed at me and said to always say the specific model.

A few weeks later, I'm flying with my dad in his Dakota and I called up tower and said "Dakota.." which was followed by confusion from the controller as to what kind of aircraft it was. I finally just said Cherokee and he was happy. There's a big speed difference in a 160hp Warrior and a 235hp Dakota though, and I would think that knowing the specific model would be good..

Thought? I've had contrasting answers from several different instructors.
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I use arrow in my callsign and will sometimes get called a Cherokee. No biggie and the speeds are close enough (+/-20Kts) anyway that is really dosen't matter. Your instructor should know this.....:yes:
 
AIM: 3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; for example, Aztec Two Four Six Four Alfa.

IOW, there is no requirement to identify as your CFI is instructing.

While I appreciate that your CFI is trying to give ATC more information, given the likelihood that the specificity is going to be confusing instead of helpful I'd say that you can ignore him with a clear conscience, when you aren't flying with him, and give the information that's most likely to be useful.
 
I own a Cherokee and fly an Archer and an Arrow when I am down for maintenance (don't ask). Out here in NorCal, I would say 50% of the time the controller ends up saying Cherokee when I am in the Archer or the Arrow, even though I announce it right. The last time in the Archer ATC completely dropped the type and only called me by the N number. I have never had that problem in the Cherokee.
 
The confusion with that is that a Dakota is that it's also RAF's name for a C-47. So if he couldn't see you when you called in he could have been confused.
Calling yourself "Cherokee" would be easier to understand, however I see nothing wrong with continuing calling yourself "Dakota."
 
I fly an arrow and always identify as an arrow to ATC. More often than not, I get called "cherokee" or just "november" for the rest of the flight.

The best was when I went on Flight Aware later on and saw that the controller had entered my type as "PARO". :dunno:
 
CT Arrow said:
I use arrow in my callsign and will sometimes get called a Cherokee. No biggie and the speeds are close enough (+/-20Kts) anyway that is really dosen't matter. Your instructor should know this.....:yes:
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All single engine Cessnas usually go by "Cessna". Everything from 150s to 210 Centurions.

Pattern speeds are close enough for controllers. Only the twins distinguish themselves by calling "Twin Cessna" so controllers give them a bit more room.
 
I was once four different aircraft on a flight from Ft Myers over the Everglades and up the east coast of Florida to St Augustine.

Was called Comanche, Twin Comanche, Aztec, and another which slips my mind right now. Might have been a Bonanza even. I would switch controllers and the new one would refer to me as something else.
 
EdFred said:
I was once four different aircraft on a flight from Ft Myers over the Everglades and up the east coast of Florida to St Augustine.

Was called Comanche, Twin Comanche, Aztec, and another which slips my mind right now. Might have been a Bonanza even. I would switch controllers and the new one would refer to me as something else.
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Someday, when I get a controller in a good mood, I'm gonna say "Incom X-Wing"
 
david0tey said:
All low wings are cherokees.
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Blasphemy! :lol:


I only identify "experimental" when calling ATC as required in my operating limitations. Anything else is fluff and ego. ATC watching radar know how fast I'm going. They know what I'm flying. ;)

Story time! :D

Flying over Davenport and Quad cities heading east during "interesting weather" I was talking to ATC and they asked me what type of plane. I told them RV-10 since I had already told the "experimental" . He asked me if I knew my ground speed was similar to a twin. :D. I told him I'm only burning 10gph, of car gas. He said, "That's just not fair. :lol: I had a 50 MPH tail wind, ground speed was 250 MPH. :yes:
 
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It really screws them up when I call in, "Pawnee 7211Z".

I came put of a hidden from the tower parking area and the tower is across the airport and they start asking, "who makes that?" Piper did, but they sold it to a company in Argentina.

Flying 1300# below Max GW with a full fuel tank, I still get to TPA in half the runway length, add it a little headwind and it does not take as much. 30knt headwind an I rolled about 100 ft and was climbing 55kias.
 
Non Compos Mentis said:
All single engine Cessnas usually go by "Cessna". Everything from 150s to 210 Centurions.

Pattern speeds are close enough for controllers. Only the twins distinguish themselves by calling "Twin Cessna" so controllers give them a bit more room.
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Really?
 
For homebuilts, there are differences based on speed:

HXA = cruise 100 knots or less; climb 500 feet per minute
HXB = cruise > 100 <200 knots; climb 750 fpm
HXC = cruise > 200 knots; climb 1,000 fpm

But I've never heard anyone do so. The only time I was questioned about Experimental, I merely said, Same performance as C150.
 
timwinters said:
Really?
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In my experience, yes.

Does your experience differ? Ever since sitting in the back seat of my dad's Cessnas (170 through 340), to today's Saturday morning breakfast gang, to listening to the tower while hanging out in the hangar, all the single engine Cessnas simply say "Cessna".

The new exception is the Skycatcher. When I got checked out, I was told the controllers like to know it's a Light-Sport, and prefer the call sign "Skycatcher".
 
rwellner98 said:
AIM: 3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; for example, Aztec Two Four Six Four Alfa.

IOW, there is no requirement to identify as your CFI is instructing.

While I appreciate that your CFI is trying to give ATC more information, given the likelihood that the specificity is going to be confusing instead of helpful I'd say that you can ignore him with a clear conscience, when you aren't flying with him, and give the information that's most likely to be useful.
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There are times "cherokee" is sufficient. Other times ATC will ask me specific model.
 
Grumman seven two tango here, ATC normally responds with seven two tango.
 
I have been asked numerous times by ATC what model. Maybe my bad luck or maybe I misunderstood the question, but I always have answered Skylane and have never been corrected. Though again, I guess they usually know a Skylane is a Cessna single engine.
 
We had a "coffee and donuts with TRACON" a few weeks ago. While touring the Omaha TRACON facility I got to chat with one of the controllers for a bit. I asked her -- do they care if I say "Cessna", or would they rather know it's a Skyhawk, Centurion, etc? Her response: "In our airspace, a Cessna is a Cessna, unless you're a twin."
 
rwellner98 said:
AIM: 3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; for example, Aztec Two Four Six Four Alfa.
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Just clarifying your reference location: AIM 4-2-4 Aircraft Call Signs Paragraph A3.
 
The manual I have for the Arrow calls it a Cherokee Arrow. Your choice, I guess. :D
 
I like to check in as Gulfstream 28264. Confuses them when I top out at 140 kts.
 
I asked this very question of a controller back in 2002.

My Pathfinder was 20% faster than our old Warrior. This was significant enough that the controller said he wanted to know what model we were.

Unfortunately, Piper went ape-***** with names in the 1970s, so the Pathfinder was called "Charger", "235", and "Dakota" in a very short period of just a few years.

Dakota was last, and stuck around longest. Therefore, most controllers know what a Dakota is, and what speeds it flies. Because of this, we identify ourselves as "Dakota 56993" to ATC. It seems to work.
 
How about "Big Katana".. Been called that too by a tower. They have DA20s on the field (which are technically Eclipses) and are used to calling them Katanas. Getting my IFR release I got "Katana" too - it's ok, used to fly one of those, but just in case clarified that I'm a Star (damn that sounds good!) DA40. "Ok, Big Katana, advise ready to.." oh well :)
 
Non Compos Mentis said:
All single engine Cessnas usually go by "Cessna". Everything from 150s to 210 Centurions..
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Cant say I completly agree with this you on this one. Although it doesn't really matter much. Most times I hear or fly cessna series its... Skyhawk XXX, or skylaneXXX, stationairXXXX, and I use CaravanXXX unless I am using company callsigns. Just a data point.
 
Exactly

Except I usually use "straight tail, bad MF'ing, cooler than sh**, skylane xxxxx"
 
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I can't do that with my plane. "Tango" has a completely different meaning when preceding an N number, so I just stick with Experimental.
 
I always announce as "Skylane (N)67890". Most of the time I'm acknowledged as "Cessna 890" in response, sometimes as "Skyhawk 890" (sigh), but every once in a while...

david0tey said:
All low wings are cherokees.
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I fly a Cessna out of a towered airport that has a large Piper oriented part 141 school. One afternoon I was on final when another aircraft was getting its landing sequence and this is what the exchange was like:

ATC: N12345 you're #2 for landing following a Cherokee(really my Cessna)
N12345: #2 following Cherokee, 345
N67890(Cessna in #1): this Cherokee has high wings
ATC: N12345 you're #2 following the high wing Cherokee
N12345: #2 following high wing Cherokee, 345
 
Geico266 said:
Story time! :D

Flying over Davenport and Quad cities heading east during "interesting weather" I was talking to ATC and they asked me what type of plane. I told them RV-10 since I had already told the "experimental" . He asked me if I knew my ground speed was similar to a twin. :D. I told him I'm only burning 10gph, of car gas. He said, "That's just not fair. :lol: I had a 50 MPH tail wind, ground speed was 250 MPH. :yes:
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This! Nothing like passing a twin while burning 8gph.
 
DaleB said:
We had a "coffee and donuts with TRACON" a few weeks ago. While touring the Omaha TRACON facility I got to chat with one of the controllers for a bit. I asked her -- do they care if I say "Cessna", or would they rather know it's a Skyhawk, Centurion, etc? Her response: "In our airspace, a Cessna is a Cessna, unless you're a twin."
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Thank you.
 
C182P said:
I always announce as "Skylane (N)67890". Most of the time I'm acknowledged as "Cessna 890" in response, sometimes as "Skyhawk 890" (sigh), but every once in a while...



I fly a Cessna out of a towered airport that has a large Piper oriented part 141 school. One afternoon I was on final when another aircraft was getting its landing sequence and this is what the exchange was like:

ATC: N12345 you're #2 for landing following a Cherokee(really my Cessna)
N12345: #2 following Cherokee, 345
N67890(Cessna in #1): this Cherokee has high wings
ATC: N12345 you're #2 following the high wing Cherokee
N12345: #2 following high wing Cherokee, 345
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:rofl: That was funny.
 
Yeah I usually get called "Piper" or "Cherokee" whether I'm in a Cherokee 140 or an Arrow.
 
david0tey said:
All low wings are cherokees.
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And all high wings are Cessnas. Even the bright yellow ones with tailwheels and no flaps.

I've had NorCal ask me for a more detailed type before, so now I use Skyhawk, Skylane, Cardinal, Warrior, etc. No tower I've talked to seems to care, but Class B/C transitions seem to be different.

You can see where it might matter, for flight following. Over the mountains, a Skylane climbs a whole lot faster than a Skyhawk, both in terms of airspeed and vertical speed. And a Turbo Skylane even more.
 
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Sometimes at uncontrolled fields I give my color and type, "brown Cessna"

ATC always gets Skylane five four eight one echo

Rarely has ATC goofed on me. Melbourne tower called me by several different numbers then accused me of changing it on him. My response was "negative, it has been five four eight one echo since before I bought it." Maybe that wasn't smart but it did shut him up.

And the OSH departure controller cleared me to take off as "green Cessna"
Airfields_OH_SW_htm_2ac53a5b.jpg

:dunno:

I looked around, saw I was the only Cessna in sight and rolled out. Maybe he was just looking at my windshield.
 
Skylane81E said:
ATC always gets Skylane five four eight one echo

Rarely has ATC goofed on me. Melbourne tower called me by several different numbers then accused me of changing it on him. My response was "negative, it has been five four eight one echo since before I bought it." Maybe that wasn't smart but it did shut him up.
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That 8 does look mysteriously like a B
:D
 
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