C210K Lands on Highway Pilot Error

fuel mismanagement aside -- why land gear up? Or did they collapse? Do 210 have an emergency gear down like an arrow?
 
MichiPilot said:
fuel mismanagement aside -- why land gear up? Or did they collapse? Do 210 have an emergency gear down like an arrow?
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'Cause he forgot to put them down. Cessna gear is independent of the engine. The emergency extension is a hand hydraulic pump. It takes some 20+ pumps to do it, so he might have been late. But it's a bit weird for the gear to fail at the same time the engine quits.

More likely, dealing with the distraction of the engine quitting, he forgot to put the gear down. And he ignored the gear warning.
 
MichiPilot said:
fuel mismanagement aside -- why land gear up? Or did they collapse? Do 210 have an emergency gear down like an arrow?
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The picture looks to me like the gear is up and locked.

This begs the question did he intentionally leave them up and since the outcome was no injuries that was that a good thing, or did he just screw the pooch all around and got lucky. :dunno:
 
As far as the gear-up, it was night and although he was heading for a highway he might not have been sure it wasn't dirt or wasn't sure he'd be on the highway. For that I might be able to give him a pass on the gear up thing. (Based on the pic, I can't see why he have an doubt about making the highway). But fuel mismanagement? Damn.
 
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The 210K still had the engine driven hydraulic pump. He may have run out of time to pump it down by hand.
 
I think essentially all 205, 206 & 210s have vapor lock problems so the whole "bust pump -on switch tanks" should be on your mind during every takeoff.
 
old cfi said:
I already posted this under Flight Training - Ooops - an hour before you. Got to get up in the morning:D
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Sorry, I was at PT this morning at 0530 and didn't get to my office until 0830. Please forgive me oh great one?!
 
MichiPilot said:
fuel mismanagement aside -- why land gear up? Or did they collapse? Do 210 have an emergency gear down like an arrow?
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Are you referring to the Arrow Auto Extension feature? The 210 doesn't have that and neither do most Arrows these days. Most Arrow owners have had the system disabled.
 
tmyers said:
Are you referring to the Arrow Auto Extension feature? The 210 doesn't have that and neither do most Arrows these days. Most Arrow owners have had the system disabled.
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I know my Arrow has the system removed.

old cfi said:
You are forgiven. And thank you for your service to this country:yes:
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Thank you for your kindness in this matter. It's my pleasure, I love my job!
 
I had an interesting thought….

Some Cessna retracts have gear warnings that depend on throttle position or MP. Some of them depend on flap position as well. I don't know where the 210 falls here.

He might have left the throttle in after the engine failure, disabling the gear warning.
 
old cfi said:
Either way - whatever happened to the GUMPS check?
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I'm certain it went out the window when the fan quit.

If you try to maximize the glide, the gear has to stay up as long as possible. Not what you usually do. Cessnas really start to sink while the gear is cycling. And it takes ~12 sec.
 
Like the way the company owner chalked it up to the pilot making a mistake. Wonder how the conversation went once they got into a private office?
 
old cfi said:
Like the way the company owner chalked it up to the pilot making a mistake. Wonder how the conversation went once they got into a private office?
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Screen-Shot-2015-01-27-at-1.06.31-AM.png
 
MAKG1 said:
'Cause he forgot to put them down. Cessna gear is independent of the engine. The emergency extension is a hand hydraulic pump. It takes some 20+ pumps to do it, so he might have been late. But it's a bit weird for the gear to fail at the same time the engine quits.

More likely, dealing with the distraction of the engine quitting, he forgot to put the gear down. And he ignored the gear warning.
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my retract is electric, but the hand extension I probably would not have time to do at say, 1000 AGL with no engine. Who knows how much time he had.
 
MAKG1 said:
Cessna gear is independent of the engine. The emergency extension is a hand hydraulic pump. It takes some 20+ pumps to do it, so he might have been late. But it's a bit weird for the gear to fail at the same time the engine quits.

More likely, dealing with the distraction of the engine quitting, he forgot to put the gear down. And he ignored the gear warning.
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Cessna 210 model years 1960 to 1971 (210 thru 210K) have landing gear hydraulics powered by an engine driven hydraulic pump. So roughly 3,000 airplanes. (about 1/3 of all 210s built)

The news reported it to be a C210K...

 
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Perhaps there were several cars on the road, and he didn't have the space for a normal roll out. If I were trying to get it down in a hurry, and had minimal spacing between cars, I might consider a gear up.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
If you fly a plane with aux tanks, run em dry. This will put you in the habit of going straight for the fuel selector when the engine loses power.
 
dell30rb said:
If you fly a plane with aux tanks, run em dry. This will put you in the habit of going straight for the fuel selector when the engine loses power.
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My instructor used to fly for a 135 charter company, he tells of the time he and one of the other charter pilots were flying a 206 and ran a tank dry. They both reached for fuel selector at the same time and so quickly that they knocked their heads together with some force. He says the were both so focused on the fuel selector that if they had managed to knock each other unconscious one of them still probably would have got the selector switched and no one would have ever known why they crashed.

I have ran tanks dry enough that when the engine sputters I usually have the selector switched in under 2 seconds. Often if the plane has fuel pressure gauge I see the pressure drop before it ever loses power.

Brian
 
brcase said:
I have ran tanks dry enough that when the engine sputters I usually have the selector switched in under 2 seconds. Often if the plane has fuel pressure gauge I see the pressure drop before it ever loses power.



Brian
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Carb or fuel injection?
I assume the pressure with fluctuate instead of a smooth drop, no?

I obviously haven't run my tanks dry.
 
teejayevans said:
Carb or fuel injection?
I assume the pressure with fluctuate instead of a smooth drop, no?

I obviously haven't run my tanks dry.
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depends on the plane, Tomahawk I remember the best gave quite a bit of warning, the pressure would just start dropping 5 to 10 seconds before it lost power. The Viking didn't give much warning.

1966 182 didn't a have a pressure guage but engine starts surging when running out fuel.

Brian
 
brcase said:
My instructor used to fly for a 135 charter company, he tells of the time he and one of the other charter pilots were flying a 206 and ran a tank dry. They both reached for fuel selector at the same time and so quickly that they knocked their heads together with some force. He says the were both so focused on the fuel selector that if they had managed to knock each other unconscious one of them still probably would have got the selector switched and no one would have ever known why they crashed.
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That type of interference is the exact reason that SOP for my crew is that the PF will address fuel warnings unless otherwise briefed/requested.
 
teejayevans said:
Carb or fuel injection?
I assume the pressure with fluctuate instead of a smooth drop, no?

I obviously haven't run my tanks dry.
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Me neither...

35 years of flying and NEVER had a motor stop running while in the air....

And that is saying something from a guy who flys a Ford powered Homebuilt...:redface::redface:
 
teejayevans said:
Carb or fuel injection?
I assume the pressure with fluctuate instead of a smooth drop, no?

I obviously haven't run my tanks dry.
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I don't have the cojones.
I'll run it to the low fuel light and then panic switch, no further.
 
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