C206 vs. PA-32

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Final Approach
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PA-32 is a truck, though it doesn't look it. C182 is heavier than a C172. I want to know what the handling is like in a C206 (or 210, for that matter), compared to the PA-32. I know speeds and mission are similar.

Practically speaking, when I buy, it is going to be PA-32, C206, or maybe PA-34. Nothing else makes sense.
 
PA-32 is a truck, though it doesn't look it. C182 is heavier than a C172. I want to know what the handling is like in a C206 (or 210, for that matter), compared to the PA-32. I know speeds and mission are similar.

Practically speaking, when I buy, it is going to be PA-32, C206, or maybe PA-34. Nothing else makes sense.

The U206 is the pro's choice.
 
I think you'd find them to fairly similar. The 206 is just high-winged truck.
 
PA-32 is a truck, though it doesn't look it. C182 is heavier than a C172. I want to know what the handling is like in a C206 (or 210, for that matter), compared to the PA-32. I know speeds and mission are similar.

Practically speaking, when I buy, it is going to be PA-32, C206, or maybe PA-34. Nothing else makes sense.
I'd personally find a U-206 with a float plane kit.
 
I've flown both. I think the PA-32 series is the better value. The 206 flies just like the 182 and 172. It's heavier on the controls and you'll learn to use the trim. They are popular in the bush. That's why the costs are higher to purchase. I haven't flown a restart 206.

I have a bunch of PA-32 experience both with and without retractable gear. Stout and honest. It really flies like a big Cherokee. Watch the CG (hint, it flies much better with an aft CG) and respect that while you now have 260 or 300hp, it's also a much heavier plane when loaded up.

FWIW, when I get a new job, I'm looking at a PA-32.
 
I have a PA 32R Saratoga and I have a friend who has a 206U. The 206 seems more bulky and truck like than the 32. Both can haul a load and have a ton of interior room, but personally I think the 32 is a little more comfortable. Probably just owner bias. The 32 also has a baggage compartment in the nose that is very handy.

The 32 is very stable and very tolerant to crosswind landings.

You will probably get more plane for your money with the 32 just because the demand is higher for the 206.
 
You will probably get more plane for your money with the 32 just because the demand is higher for the 206.

Very true.

Other comparison points: the PA32 has more room for baggage, but a tighter W&B envelope.

I haven't flown a 206, but have a bunch of time in 210s. I can fit alot more stuff in the PA32, but have to watch the W&B closely, whereas I have not found a way to load a 210 out of CG limits.
 
If you plan on floats the 206 is the one over the 32 each has one pilot door to get in each has one big back door. The 206 with flaps down block back door from being opened in a emergency the 32 you have to climb up on the wing to get in and out. 206 cont IO520, 32 LYC 540 . Pa32 has baggage door in front good for W&B . PA-32 has seats club seating or face forward. The 206 glide and 32 are nothing like a C172 or PA28 they drop like a rocks with power off. They are each in high demand, that alone says something about the two. Best to see what your other half and kids like as most people who own one or the other keep it for a long time.
 
Pa32 has baggage door in front good for W&B .

Not really. The usefulness of the nose baggage is something you have to really watch as you load the plane up. At higher gross weights, you can't put much weight there due to the CG envelope.
 
Not really. The usefulness of the nose baggage is something you have to really watch as you load the plane up. At higher gross weights, you can't put much weight there due to the CG envelope.



I have found the opposite to be true for my Saratoga. With 6 people on board you need some weight in the nose compartment to stay in CG. The older straight wing may be different with Cherokee 6's and Lance's.
 
PA32R Lance
Useful Load 1412#
143 kts True air speed
15 GHP burn

Club seat allow two people in the back to stretch their legs out.
The back seats tilt back if they want to take a nap.
There is a Luggage door in the back for easy loading.
Some come with an Insulated console between the middle back seats for carrying cool drinks.
 
Not really. The usefulness of the nose baggage is something you have to really watch as you load the plane up. At higher gross weights, you can't put much weight there due to the CG envelope.

Actually the opposite is true ...at least with my '65 32-260. With full fuel, no baggage in the front or rear baggage areas and 6 adults I am near the aft end of the CG range but still within the weight and CG envelope.
 
PA-32 is a truck, though it doesn't look it. C182 is heavier than a C172. I want to know what the handling is like in a C206 (or 210, for that matter), compared to the PA-32. I know speeds and mission are similar.

Practically speaking, when I buy, it is going to be PA-32, C206, or maybe PA-34. Nothing else makes sense.
Have you experimented with trying to fit the item I'm guessing you want to carry in all these models? I know many 206s have the cargo door which I assume would make loading it easy. I have a lot of time in 206s and some in 210s. They are somewhat heavier and more solid feeling than 172s and 182s. I have no time in PA-32s or 34s. However, I have noticed that you will get used to whatever you fly a lot, so after a while the small difference in feel won't make a difference.
 
I found the 206 narrow for a six seater. I was rubbing upper arms with the owner (I was his safety pilot). Figures, with a 42.5 inch cabin width. That's barely half inch wider than my pa-28; a wash when accounting for interior trim. A 32 has 49 inches. That right there alone is big enough of a difference to sway me. Much better value imo when carrying animated boxes as opposed to the carton ones.

As far as flying, I had zero hours in the 206 when the owner almost put us in the grass (idiot rich guy, exwife's boss) and I took it. I don't know why people make such a big deal out of transition on these things, flew just like any simpleton 100 series cessna. Meh, piece o' cake.

Both will work. PA-32 is my vote. Get the folding gear so you can save some gas. Things aren't $2/gal anymore. Good luck
 
I found the 206 narrow for a six seater. I was rubbing upper arms with the owner (I was his safety pilot). Figures, with a 42.5 inch cabin width. That's barely half inch wider than my pa-28; a wash when accounting for interior trim. A 32 has 49 inches. That right there alone is big enough of a difference to sway me. Much better value imo when carrying animated boxes as opposed to the carton ones.

As far as flying, I had zero hours in the 206 when the owner almost put us in the grass (idiot rich guy, exwife's boss) and I took it. I don't know why people make such a big deal out of transition on these things, flew just like any simpleton 100 series cessna. Meh, piece o' cake.

Both will work. PA-32 is my vote. Get the folding gear so you can save some gas. Things aren't $2/gal anymore. Good luck

Except that any gas savings can be quickly negated by higher purchase price, maint cost and insurance cost for the Lance or Saratoga. Not to mention reduced useful load. Personally I'm not sure it's worth it for an extra 15 -20 knots. The Lance and Saratoga are undoubtedly very fine aircraft, but it's something to consider.
 
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Except that any gas savings can be quickly negated by higher purchase price, maint cost and insurance cost for the Lance or Saratoga. Not to mention reduced useful load. Personally I'm not sure it's worth it for an extra 15 -20 knots. The Lance and Saratoga are undoubtedly very fine aircraft, but it's something to consider.


Thats the way its looking for me. Any speed increase is destroyed when I look at purchase and price, my insurance premium vs a Six or 6x
 
You'd want a big tail U206, with the float kit (brace, corrosion proofing etc) a IO550 and black mac prop, VGs and wing tip extensions.

The piper does not compare nore does a 210.
 
My father's plane is a pa32-301, or the Saratoga SP (retract) and it a 1982. His has factory A/C. this is what it will do.

useful load 1298
cruses at 158 kts (which is about 65% power)
gph about 14.5 at typical cruise

The saratogas have 102 useful gallons, which is slightly higher than the older models. His is club seating and comfy in the back, and for a small plane it is very wide on the inside. The width on the way back seats is fine, but the headroom is limited. The rear area alothough only one door, is very easy to get both people and bags out of. The seats are removable and the plane will hold a ton if needed. The over the wing for the front seats on the passenger side is a little bit of a pain in the ass.

The retract gear versions will cost you more money in insurance and annuals, but there is a fixed gear version that is about 10 knots slower, and has a slightly higer useful load. I am not going to give exact numbers but insurance for the first year will cost you between 600 to 800 per month on the retract version, but there are large reductions after the first year. Annuals will run 3500 to 5000 with nothing wrong, due to the gear.
 
insurance for the first year will cost you between 600 to 800 per month on the retract version,

. Annuals will run 3500 to 5000 with nothing wrong, due to the gear.



ky.jpg
 
My gear swing costs me .75AMUs and that's my AP outright scalping me because he's the only game in town. So it's a stated rape. Even so, hardly 3.5amus by default. There's nothing additional to a pa-32 that a pa-28r doesn't have other than more cylinders. So in all reality annuals should be same. anything above 2amus for a full up annual in a retract is scalping. 13th month mx? Sure, knock yourself out, i did a couple additional things that blew the budget on this annual, but that's not gonna go on the annual ledger.

I have a tough time buying into the purchase price delta argument, looking at TAP. These fixed gear things are all priced above 80K anyways. Sure one lance at 140K but so are a couple of yahoos in there pricing their six-300s for about the same. The variance is less than 20K for most listings; you'll eat into that "savings" in less than 3 years of flying at 15gph provided you fly more than 100 hours a year. You're also a hell of a lot less likely to tolerate running the six at 65% or less versus a lance. You didn't buy a 6 seat airplane to go archer speeds. Otherwise you would have gotten an archer and told the last two people tough cheese, you two get to drive. Hell of a lot of savings too. :D

"I really wish they'd made this 20J model in fixed gear, I mean it would totally help with the cost since 20 knots is a total wash anyways" said NO ONE, EVER. :D
 
I have found the opposite to be true for my Saratoga. With 6 people on board you need some weight in the nose compartment to stay in CG. The older straight wing may be different with Cherokee 6's and Lance's.
Interesting. The ones I've flown were mid-late 70s. A 79 PA32RT Turbo Lance II and a 74 PA32-300. Both envelopes are pretty narrow at the top.
 
My father's plane is a pa32-301, or the Saratoga SP (retract) and it a 1982. His has factory A/C. this is what it will do.

useful load 1298
cruses at 158 kts (which is about 65% power)
gph about 14.5 at typical cruise

The saratogas have 102 useful gallons, which is slightly higher than the older models. His is club seating and comfy in the back, and for a small plane it is very wide on the inside. The width on the way back seats is fine, but the headroom is limited. The rear area alothough only one door, is very easy to get both people and bags out of. The seats are removable and the plane will hold a ton if needed. The over the wing for the front seats on the passenger side is a little bit of a pain in the ass.

The retract gear versions will cost you more money in insurance and annuals, but there is a fixed gear version that is about 10 knots slower, and has a slightly higer useful load. I am not going to give exact numbers but insurance for the first year will cost you between 600 to 800 per month on the retract version, but there are large reductions after the first year. Annuals will run 3500 to 5000 with nothing wrong, due to the gear.

I agree with everything above except for the cost.

I am paying $2500 per year insurance on 150k hull. Annuals are running 1500-2000.
The difference for insurance between fixed and retract was 400 per year. With 0 hrs retract time and 400 hrs total time and IFR.

My plane is also an 82, but no A/C
 
Yup, someone is getting screwed if they're paying those numbers.

I have noticed that people in New Jersey are always getting ****ed in aviation. I'm always hearing about outrageous prices there.
 
Annuals will run 3500 to 5000 with nothing wrong, due to the gear.

Seriously? What about that gear is so onerous? Base annual price for our Mooney 201 was $1400, that includes gear swings and checking gear preload.
 
I agree with everything above except for the cost.

I am paying $2500 per year insurance on 150k hull. Annuals are running 1500-2000.
The difference for insurance between fixed and retract was 400 per year. With 0 hrs retract time and 400 hrs total time and IFR.

My plane is also an 82, but no A/C

That insurance quote was based on a new PPL low time (200 hours at purchase), VFR pilot owning the plane. I was told the insurance would drop about 2500 per year, and even more after IFR rating. TBH, because of the pilots experince level when the plane was purchased it was difficult to find insurance. Your 2500 once IFR is achieved and a few more years of ownership is around what I was told. There are alot of variables with insuring aircraft. :D

As for the annual, not sure why the higher cost, it may just be area of teh county, and the going rates. I am just going off what I have been told, I did not do the shopping.
 
Annuals will run 3500 to 5000 with nothing wrong, due to the gear.

If you are paying $3500-$5000 for the inspection on a PA23R, you are seriously getting screwed. Around $3500 for an annual is more like what I'd expect to pay for a Baron or 310.
 
Great responses.

They're both good trucks!
 
I am on my second T206H. Many times you will hear that a 206 is just a bigger 182. While there is truth in that, there are also a lot of differences that matter.

The gear looks like a 172/182, but isn't. It's a truck spring, basically indestructible. It is also real bouncy like any un dampened spring. That means landings are much less forgiving. I have let several experienced pilots fly mine and they always have some issues with a smooth landing. Not that it is a big deal, but a nuance vs. a 182/72.

The wing looks similar, but IME isn't. The 206 wing is a heavy lift wing. Mountain ops, heavy weights, weights above gross (I've heard), are all a piece of cake. I routinely take off above 7,000' with temps in the 90's at gross, zero wind, non-event. I have also flown them into the mid-20's at gross no problem. Short landings, 1000' or less, is routine.

Truck like handling.... Sure. I happen to like it. Flying IFR in heavy rain, bumps, night, etc. I like a bird that stays put and feels more like a heavier TP or jet to the passengers. Definitely boring vs. something like an RV, but well suited for real world flying.

When you look at the price difference in a restart 206 vs. 182 it doesn't make sense on paper. When you have owned both it makes a lot of sense. Of course they aren't perfect, I always wish I could go faster than 150 and burned less than 16, etc. They're all a compromise.

I can't comment on the Piper, as I have never flown that model.
 
Thanks.

I am on my second T206H. Many times you will hear that a 206 is just a bigger 182. While there is truth in that, there are also a lot of differences that matter.

The gear looks like a 172/182, but isn't. It's a truck spring, basically indestructible. It is also real bouncy like any un dampened spring. That means landings are much less forgiving. I have let several experienced pilots fly mine and they always have some issues with a smooth landing. Not that it is a big deal, but a nuance vs. a 182/72.

The wing looks similar, but IME isn't. The 206 wing is a heavy lift wing. Mountain ops, heavy weights, weights above gross (I've heard), are all a piece of cake. I routinely take off above 7,000' with temps in the 90's at gross, zero wind, non-event. I have also flown them into the mid-20's at gross no problem. Short landings, 1000' or less, is routine.

Truck like handling.... Sure. I happen to like it. Flying IFR in heavy rain, bumps, night, etc. I like a bird that stays put and feels more like a heavier TP or jet to the passengers. Definitely boring vs. something like an RV, but well suited for real world flying.

When you look at the price difference in a restart 206 vs. 182 it doesn't make sense on paper. When you have owned both it makes a lot of sense. Of course they aren't perfect, I always wish I could go faster than 150 and burned less than 16, etc. They're all a compromise.

I can't comment on the Piper, as I have never flown that model.
 
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